M4: a great value buy?

[Tago]

But I find it interesting, my dad usually buys cheap gear, his last PC was a 500 euro HP machine with an AMD Ryzen processor with integrated graphics, and now he is saying, for just 200 euros more I can have a top-of-the-line processor with decent all-around specs and high build quality.

He is not really into benchmarks and things, he looks superficially at Apple’s marketing materials and a few video’s I send him, and he understands that it’s a good deal, that the value proposition has shifted.

If I just may add:

In my opinion the computer - Mini/Studio and the competition is mainly or all about performance and connectivity. The great user experience arises from connecting that Mini to good or great pheripherals the user actually interact by, picked to cover the needs of a specific user case and the preferred ergonomics for that user. Mouse/Pad/keyboard and Monitor choices can make the experience fantastic or rubbish be it a mediocre or great PC/Mac.

Personally, I prefer a clean desk, and use a lift desk (I`m handy and "built it" myself) and a Ergotron (LX arm for low weight 32", HX is better, but for heavier monitors) to get everything positioned the way I prefer. A good (budget) monitor allows me to work for hours and hours, and the desk/arm setup lets me do that without back/neck trouble.

Whatever pc/mac keeps it all running, I always have a good setup otherwise, and with all in place, any upgrade is just about performance/connectivity. Makes it "cheap" to keep the setup relevant.

 

[dmccloud]

I think it’s great that there is this option. It’s not a real bargain-basement product like a 375-450 euro PC, it’s a little more expensive, but it really competes well in the low-price competent computer price bracket. It is an excellent computing experience -- fast, great build quality, all the benefits of having a Mac, enough ram and storage in the base model, and a tremendous value.

If you compare the new Mini to similar sized Intel and AMD-based machines, I believe the competition is over before it truly even began. The comparison between the base M4 and x86 CPUs such as the Intel N95/N100, Ryzen 7 5800U, etc. is laughable, and the M4 will have higher memory bandwidth and SSD transfer speeds than those systems.

 

[Digitalguy]

If you compare the new Mini to similar sized Intel and AMD-based machines, I believe the competition is over before it truly even began. The comparison between the base M4 and x86 CPUs such as the Intel N95/N100, Ryzen 7 5800U, etc. is laughable, and the M4 will have higher memory bandwidth and SSD transfer speeds than those systems.

that is if you need that CPU power. Last year for Black Friday I got a Ryzen 5 6650u Mini PC with 32GB of RAM and 512GB SSD for $299. 1 TB4 port plus HDMI and Disaply port. I can run 3 4k monitors. I added 2 internal SSDs for several TBs of storage. For me that CPU is perfectly fine but I need the RAM (right now I am using 19GB). For the me RAM and storage are more important than the CPU as as it's fast enough (N95/100 probably wouldn't be). I am not considering preferences for Windows or MacOS, although everyone has their preferences.

 

[Bodhitree]

That is if you need that CPU power. Last year for Black Friday I got a Ryzen 5 6650u Mini PC with 32GB of RAM and 512GB SSD for $299.

For me, the M1 was a revelation, not because I *needed* more speed and power than my previous Intel MacBook Air, but because the overall package of CPU power, OS snappiness, and peripheral quality made the whole computing experience on Mac a pleasure for the first time, instead of just utilitarian tinged with frustration as it had been on all previous computers.

The thing is, you shouldn’t have to ‘wrangle’ your computer, it should be a pleasure to use, with high quality hardware, operating system and third-party software. That requires a fast CPU with power to spare, and the base M4 delivers that. That that computing experience is now available for a reasonable price, is a truly great achievement.

 

[cjsuk]

I think it is great that Apple is now attracting customers like your dad. These are not the customers traditionally associated with Apple products.

Also some people I’ve spoken to, even people who know nothing about it, have been put off by windows 11. They were happy with windows 10 and due to the amount of moaning they heard from other people they see it as the same uplift as moving to Mac. They have to buy a whole new computer at ransom from Microsoft and they aren’t happy.

A lot of them use desktops still so the Mac mini looks like a good proposition. Especially when they all have iPhones already.

 

[Bodhitree]

Also some people I’ve spoken to, even people who know nothing about it, have been put off by windows 11. They were happy with windows 10 and due to the amount of moaning they heard from other people they see it as the same uplift as moving to Mac. They have to buy a whole new computer at ransom from Microsoft and they aren’t happy.

A lot of them use desktops still so the Mac mini looks like a good proposition. Especially when they all have iPhones already.

Exactly. In hindsight moving all the system preferences into an iPhone-style “Settings” app was a brilliant move, because suddenly everyone who has an iPhone feels familiar with a Mac. It’s a unified design language.

In a way you could say this is the design of the computer operating system making way for the pre-eminence of the smartphone. For very many people on the planet the smartphone is the first computer they own, and it’s operating system is the system they are most familiar with. So it makes sense to make it easy for them to operate a more powerful computer by making its systems similar.

 

[Digitalguy]

For me, the M1 was a revelation, not because I *needed* more speed and power than my previous Intel MacBook Air, but because the overall package of CPU power, OS snappiness, and peripheral quality made the whole computing experience on Mac a pleasure for the first time, instead of just utilitarian tinged with frustration as it had been on all previous computers.

The thing is, you shouldn’t have to ‘wrangle’ your computer, it should be a pleasure to use, with high quality hardware, operating system and third-party software. That requires a fast CPU with power to spare, and the base M4 delivers that. That that computing experience is now available for a reasonable price, is a truly great achievement.

My M1 mini (16GB 1TB) was also some kind of revelation, made me understand that I wanted to swtich from a traditional tower to a minipc that was totally silent and had a TB port that could run USB C monitors.
M1 had power to spare for me so I didn't need something more powerful. But MacOS was more complication than a solution since I needed to run Windows only apps anyway and in additiion to paying the Parallels tax I needed a Mac Mini with at least 32GB RAM (which only started to exist with the M2 pro) and that could run at times 3 monitors and the interaction between the Parallel VM and MacOS wans't ideal. Plus I needed internal storage to sync my cloud services locally and have the VM.
So I looked on the internet for the most silent Mini PC and found one as silent as my M1 mini (never heard the fan). For much cheaper. And it's snappy. Windows 11 is snappy and totally fine once I turned the interface into Windows 10 via explorer patcher (which I couldn't do on the Parallels VM). Past that, I don't have to "‘wrangle" my computer, it's a pleasure to use, more than my M1 mini was, which has now become a plex server...
But if you don't need to run Windows apps and 16GB RAM is fine, as is 256GB of internal storage, the base M4 mini is indeed great value.

 

[cjsuk]

My M1 mini (16GB 1TB) was also some kind of revelation, made me understand that I wanted to swtich from a traditional tower to a minipc that was totally silent and had a TB port that could run USB C monitors.
M1 had power to spare for me so I didn't need something more powerful. But MacOS was more complication than a solution since I needed to run Windows only apps anyway and in additiion to paying the Parallels tax I needed a Mac Mini with at least 32GB RAM (which only started to exist with the M2 pro) and that could run at times 3 monitors and the interaction between the Parallel VM and MacOS wans't ideal. Plus I needed internal storage to sync my cloud services locally and have the VM.
So I looked on the internet for the most silent Mini PC and found one as silent as my M1 mini (never heard the fan). For much cheaper. And it's snappy. Windows 11 is snappy and totally fine once I turned the interface into Windows 10 via explorer patcher (which I couldn't do on the Parallels VM). Past that, I don't have to "‘wrangle" my computer, it's a pleasure to use, more than my M1 mini was, which has now become a plex server...
But if you don't need to run Windows apps and 16GB RAM is fine, as is 256GB of internal storage, the base M4 mini is indeed great value.

I solved this problem by using an AWS EC2 instance for windows (virtual machine). Paid hourly and shut down when not needed it worked out at $7 a month for the one windows app I needed which was slowly deprecated over the space of 3 months (minitab replaced with R).

 

[Digitalguy]

I solved this problem by using an AWS EC2 instance for windows (virtual machine). Paid hourly and shut down when not needed it worked out at $7 a month for the one windows app I needed which was slowly deprecated over the space of 3 months (minitab replaced with R).

That can work maybe for a very limited use, but I need windows to be available virtually all day long for my work and for several apps, so cloud services are way too expensive. One solution could be remote desktop but at that point I'd have a Windows PC on all day anyway, makes no sense.... Some people hate Windows so they are ready to go out of their way to avoid it. I don't, as long as I can tweak it a bit. What I really loved about Apple Silicon is the hardware, not MacOS. But the limitations (lack of cellular on laptops, lack of a form factor like my old Retina Macbook, which I still use at home, limited number of external displays) and the absurd prices Apple has on upgrades (paired with lack of any upgradable storage) made me rule out Macs as my main devices. Although I still consider Apple Silicon Macs a little marvel, that has improved with M4 (including in value) but that could be so much more if Apple allowed it.

 

[ader42]

One of my client forces me to use Microsoft teams/outlook and one drive. What a mess, I started charging more for that mess.
I am planning to get a base model in Costco, for 579 bucks and a file backup/utility machine it’s great deal for small compact device.

Eventually in business some of us learn that we only want good customers and not just any old customers.

 

[Tago]

That can work maybe for a very limited use, but I need windows to be available virtually all day long for my work and for several apps, so cloud services are way too expensive. One solution could be remote desktop but at that point I'd have a Windows PC on all day anyway, makes no sense.... Some people hate Windows so they are ready to go out of their way to avoid it. I don't, as long as I can tweak it a bit. What I really loved about Apple Silicon is the hardware, not MacOS. But the limitations (lack of cellular on laptops, lack of a form factor like my old Retina Macbook, which I still use at home, limited number of external displays) and the absurd prices Apple has on upgrades (paired with lack of any upgradable storage) made me rule out Macs as my main devices. Although I still consider Apple Silicon Macs a little marvel, that has improved with M4 (including in value) but that could be so much more if Apple allowed it.

I will go out of my way to avoid Windows, and I used to picture lack of cellular as a drawback for MacBooks.

Have had several Thinkpads with cellular, and I even got a Novatel Merlin XU870 (3G) awaiting recycling. For those who don`t know that hardware, mine was manufactured mar 2007. I like the concept with modern cellular integrated, but never really got great use of it. For starters, why would I want several abbs when one is enough? Have been through twin sims and what not, iOS, Windows and Linux.

In my little town of residence we have a public wifi grid covering "downtown" and way beyond that. I do use 5G only and have used 4G only for some years. I was in fact testing a new 5G router to use as my only connection about 3 months ago, but I returned it and cancelled.

I still don`t believe 4/5G is any good, 4G frequently dropped to 3G and 5G keeps on dropping to 4G. I just don`t think it`s good enough, and I suspect Apple would agree. That might change when they got their own modem sometime in the future, but for now, they are doing the right thing.

Some people need Windows and that`s fine, but as a principal it is a good idea to choose apps and structures that doesn`t force you double up or pick an inferior system.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Eventually in business some of us learn that we only want good customers and not just any old customers.

Absolutely, gotta adapt and some times cut the chord if it isn’t worth.

 

[marstan]

You can also tell your Dad and Aunt that they can run Windows 11 in a virtual machine window on the mac via the now free VMWare Fusion for Mac OS. Win11 runs so well in Apple silicon (on my M2 pro) that you can't tell the difference from a native install.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

You can also tell your Dad and Aunt that they can run Windows 11 in a virtual machine window on the mac via the now free VMWare Fusion for Mac OS. Win11 runs so well in Apple silicon (on my M2 pro) that you can't tell the difference from a native install.

This is true.
I bought a M4 Mac Mini with 512GB SSD. It came, of course, with 16GB RAM.
Having had a late 2015 27" iMac with 2TB Fusion drive for 9 years, and never having gone anywhere near 400 GB of used space, I felt that the model of Mac Mini would suit me. It has.

It is spifflicatingly fast.

The first emulator I got working was SheepShaver. It works very well, and I now have access to all my files from my System 9 days. And it runs, under emulation, faster than any of my previous PowerPC Macs.

I then set up VMware and installed Windows 11 (ARM) and Ubuntu Desktop (ARM).
Both run faster under VMware than on my son's hand-me-down Gaming PC.

I said many years ago that a Mac was the fastest way to run Windows for normal people. It still is.