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Mac Mini 2018 Kernel panic bug_type 210 after Security Update 2020-002

Arubalube

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
4
0
Don't get excited—I have no solution to this!

But I have some information that might help someone.

Ok—my 2018, T2, i5 Mac Mini was fine during the beginning of this thread. I alway update and so missed the crashes that others with similar set ups suffered.

Mine began around the time of 10.15.5 installation. I'd also been setting up Time Machine, which was screwy—it wouldn't finish encrypting and I thought that was the problem for a couple of weeks.

I've done these things, which have been recommended but didn't help me:
√ NVRAM reset
√ SMC reset
√ Safe Mode reboot
√ macOS reinstallation (10.15.5 from the local partition—more on this later)
√ Removal of external devices (Logitech camera and a couple of hard drives)
√ Removal of—apparently innocent—3rd party apps that work deeply in the system (Hazel, Chronosync, Evernote, Soundflower)
√ Removed the kernel extensions (kext) files from the Library, and Library Extensions folders (not all of them, just the ones that I was reasonably sure weren't critical)

Here are things I've yet to try:
X Working in a different User account.  recommended this but it's not convenient, and I couldn't get a sensible answer about what you'd do with either outcome—it's either User specific or system wide. What next?
X Use my Mac Mini with no display attached! I put this flippantly but there's discussion that kind of matches the Console Logs here: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/360159/mac-mini-multi-display-reconfiguring-repeatedly Suggestions include changing cables and stopping displays from sleeping. This seems remote for me because my USC-C → Display port cables had been fine for 18 months and my Mac crashes when fully awake.
X Reinstall macOS, but not 10.15.5. One reinstallation option is to reinstall the macOS that the Mac shipped with. This is pre-10.15.5. I could then upgrade and stop just before 10.15.5. Maybe.
X Reinstall a 'combo' macOS. I don't really know what this means but it's on my list.
X Stop using Safari, which is recommended here. I've not found the explanation
X Voodoo.
 
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Nymunariya

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
20
3
Germany
Just got off the phone with Apple Support (Germany). 1 hour 15 minutes.

We reset the SMC (and found out later that during shutdown a kernel panic occured), reset the NVRAM (RIP startup chime, I'll fix you later). And the computer woke itself up from sleep.

I booted into Catalina (for science) by holding down option, but instead of booting to Calatina it booted to the Mojave installer (don't ask me to explain how that happened). But selecting Catalina as start up drive worked. Of course the problem didn't occur with Catalina, but then again I also haven't used Catalina since it arrived, so it's a pristine install. Sleep of course worked fine, but it's not as if the sleep issue happens every day.

We did also test the issue of noise over HDMI. It of course did not occur in Catalina (only in Mojave, testing with three monitors in various positions HDMI/USB-C, only HDMI caused trouble).

Also created a new user. While the HDMI problem persisted, I can't exactly test the sleep crashes--not really practical.

Next up is to reinstall Mojave. I've created a new container for that and will reinstall tonite or this weekend. And then see if I can reproduce a sleep/shutdown crash, and the HDMI problem.
 
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toke lahti

macrumors 68030
Apr 23, 2007
2,649
376
Helsinki, Finland
X Reinstall a 'combo' macOS. I don't really know what this means but it's on my list.
Combo is an OS update, which you download separately from Apple.
It has all the drivers and stuff, that were updated after .0-release.
So this eliminates the problem that some driver (and stuff) that wasn't updated in last automatic update, is corrupted and cause problems.

I guess trying to find a way to fix this bug can only done by Apple, so I'm not wasting my time for hours in fresh installs and different order in updates. Apple can fix this, but I guess they don't care.
 
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Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
5,332
2,513
New Jersey Pine Barrens
As much as I'd love to update to Catalina and use all the wonderful new features, I can't, because I need my 32-bit apps.

Another approach would be updating to Catalina, then creating a virtual machine with an older version of MacOS for your legacy apps. I just set this up under Catalina on my new 2018 Mini with Sierra in Parallels and it works fine. You could also do it with other versions of MacOS and/or other virtualization software.

 
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Nymunariya

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
20
3
Germany
Another approach would be updating to Catalina, then creating a virtual machine with an older version of MacOS for your legacy apps. I just set this up under Catalina on my new 2018 Mini with Sierra in Parallels and it works fine. You could also do it with other versions of MacOS and/or other virtualization software.


my only concern with that is I do play 32-bit games as well, like Diablo 2, DXX, Warcraft III, I have a few 32-bit emulators (Boxer, ScummVM). How are those going to run with virtualisiation?
 
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Nymunariya

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
20
3
Germany
okay, this is getting slightly annoying. I did a fresh install of Mojave on a separate APFS container, and so far no panics. But, it doesn't happen all day ever day, so this is going to be a frustrating wait this weekend for a panic--so I can prove to Apple that it's not just my original Mojave install. And if it is, that's super frustrating because that means I have to copy everything over again.

And no, Apple, I do not want to upgrade this Mojave install to Catalina. No thank you.
 
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Hessel89

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2017
475
247
Netherlands
okay, this is getting slightly annoying. I did a fresh install of Mojave on a separate APFS container, and so far no panics. But, it doesn't happen all day ever day, so this is going to be a frustrating wait this weekend for a panic--so I can prove to Apple that it's not just my original Mojave install. And if it is, that's super frustrating because that means I have to copy everything over again.

And no, Apple, I do not want to upgrade this Mojave install to Catalina. No thank you.

Try updating to the latest SU and opening and closing Safari before putting it to sleep. It will definitely crash. If it doesn't, consider yourself lucky, your MM doesn't have to get repaired/replaced.
 
Comment

Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
5,332
2,513
New Jersey Pine Barrens
my only concern with that is I do play 32-bit games as well

Sorry, I don't play games so I just don't know. But I have yet to see a single crash since I got my new Mini 4 days ago, and it has been used heavily installing/configuring things (including Windows on Parallels). I found a couple other links that might help if you want to try the virtual machine approach.


 
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Nymunariya

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
20
3
Germany
Try updating to the latest SU and opening and closing Safari before putting it to sleep. It will definitely crash. If it doesn't, consider yourself lucky, your MM doesn't have to get repaired/replaced.

It installed the latest Mojave. But opening and closing Safari is not making it crash.

Even in my old Mojave it's not crashing everytime I put it to sleep.

Now it's frustrating that it's *not* crashing...
 
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Hessel89

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2017
475
247
Netherlands
It installed the latest Mojave. But opening and closing Safari is not making it crash.

Even in my old Mojave it's not crashing everytime I put it to sleep.

Now it's frustrating that it's *not* crashing...

Just leave it on overnight for a week, see if it still doesn't crash. If it still doesn't, be grateful your Mac mini probably doesn't have a hardware defect! :) Just curious, what OS is your T2 chip running?
 
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auralux

macrumors demi-god
Mar 7, 2017
1,738
2,098
So am I correct in understanding this is a Mojave only issue that does not occur in Catalina? Sounds to me like Apple wants mini users to upgrade to Catalina. IDK, maybe there are other “fixes”...?
 
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Nymunariya

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
20
3
Germany
Just leave it on overnight for a week, see if it still doesn't crash. If it still doesn't, be grateful your Mac mini probably doesn't have a hardware defect! :) Just curious, what OS is your T2 chip running?

I'm not sure where to get that exact information, but in the crash reports it says Bridge OS 4.5 (17P5300), and in About this Mac: Boot-ROM-Version: 1517.0.0.115.1 (iBridge: 18.16.10310.5.15,0).

So far I'm a few days in (on first Mojave install) and still no crash. So maybe I'm lucky it's not a hardware defect, but I assume it's just a Bridge OS/T2 chip.

So am I correct in understanding this is a Mojave only issue that does not occur in Catalina? Sounds to me like Apple wants mini users to upgrade to Catalina. IDK, maybe there are other “fixes”...?

The problem is I already set up my Mojave install with 450GB of data and apps. And while I have tested (briefly) in Catalina and a second Mojave install, since everything is in my original Mojave install, and I want to leave the other installs somewhat clean (to make sure it's not a software or installed thing problem), I haven't spent that much time testing them. But I assume that it just comes down to how Bridge OS (the T2) chip interacts with mac OS, and since Catalina is the current OS, the T2 is programmed to work primarily with Catalina, and there may be bugs in that T2 expects Mojave to do something, or Mojave expects the T2 to do something and T2 is all *WHAT?!* and then panics and since it controls so much it pulls down the entire computer. But that's just my assumption until I have the patience to test more with Catalina and experience an actual crash there.
 
Comment

Arubalube

macrumors newbie
Jun 25, 2020
4
0
Don't get excited—I have no solution to this!

But I have some information that might help someone.

Ok—my 2018, T2, i5 Mac Mini was fine during the beginning of this thread. I alway update and so missed the crashes that others with similar set ups suffered.

Mine began around the time of 10.15.5 installation. I'd also been setting up Time Machine, which was screwy—it wouldn't finish encrypting and I thought that was the problem for a couple of weeks.

I've done these things, which have been recommended but didn't help me:
√ NVRAM reset
√ SMC reset
√ Safe Mode reboot
√ macOS reinstallation (10.15.5 from the local partition—more on this later)
√ Removal of external devices (Logitech camera and a couple of hard drives)
√ Removal of—apparently innocent—3rd party apps that work deeply in the system (Hazel, Chronosync, Evernote, Soundflower)
√ Removed the kernel extensions (kext) files from the Library, and Library Extensions folders (not all of them, just the ones that I was reasonably sure weren't critical)

Here are things I've yet to try:
X Working in a different User account.  recommended this but it's not convenient, and I couldn't get a sensible answer about what you'd do with either outcome—it's either User specific or system wide. What next?
X Use my Mac Mini with no display attached! I put this flippantly but there's discussion that kind of matches the Console Logs here: https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/360159/mac-mini-multi-display-reconfiguring-repeatedly Suggestions include changing cables and stopping displays from sleeping. This seems remote for me because my USC-C → Display port cables had been fine for 18 months and my Mac crashes when fully awake.
X Reinstall macOS, but not 10.15.5. One reinstallation option is to reinstall the macOS that the Mac shipped with. This is pre-10.15.5. I could then upgrade and stop just before 10.15.5. Maybe.
X Reinstall a 'combo' macOS. I don't really know what this means but it's on my list.
X Stop using Safari, which is recommended here. I've not found the explanation
X Voodoo.

========
UPDATE—It's been ok since reinstalling 10.15.5 from a fresh download on Saturday—4 days ago.

I assume that both the installed macOS and the local version on the partition drive were flakey and the new install is good. [but it seems odd that the mac doesn't do some kind of integrity, SHA/MD5, check before coming alive so maybe that's not it]

I could not install in the default way, because I could not connect to my WiFi network. I kept getting an error '-2002F'. The internet told me to connect my Mac to the router with an ethernet cable &/or to turn security off my router. Neither worked so I set downloaded 10.15.5 to a flash drive and used this installer https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

I've not crashed but Time Machine is taking an age to encrypt (40% on Saturday 55% today). I also noticed that it was impossible to drag files to folders for the first ½ hour after the install. My hope is that it was just busy getting ready to going back to being good again. Apart from that, the nightmare seems to be over now.

Crashes were always accompanied by reports of 'displaypolicyd.log' in the Console. I've not seen it around since. So that's some reassurance.

I am still getting 'com.apple.hiservices-xpcservice (518)' freezing in Activity Monitor. This didn't happen at the same time as crashes so I think it's irrelevant.

I hope that's useful to someone

========
UPDATE #2— I spoke too soon. It began crashing after a re-start.
Grrr.
 
Last edited:
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casperghst42

macrumors regular
Jan 11, 2006
108
58
========
UPDATE—It's been ok since reinstalling 10.15.5 from a fresh download on Saturday—4 days ago.

From where did you download 10.15.5, as I always get "Cannot connect to AppStore" when I try to download it using the links Apple provide.

UPDATE == Found it ....
 
Comment

What?Say,What?

macrumors member
Jan 2, 2009
36
9
My latest Update: my 10.14.6 setup fully up to date. I was about to move to Catalina, but it's looking like some subset of users are still having problems. So my mojave machine is acting this way:

Crashes/reboots if:
If safari is left open and automatic sleep occurs
Usually, but not always if I select sleep from the apple menu
Sometimes if I manually reboot from the menu I get the KP warning on loading desktop.

No Crashes if:
allowed to sleep on its own without safari/tech preview running
not allowed to sleep ever

Uncertain:
safari left open but no sleep
cold boot in morning after shutdown night before

I did rebuild launch services db as suggested.

Can someone define "cold reboot"? I'm a computer technician like a lot of people here, and I'm sorry, but the phrase doesn't make sense:
Boot: turn on the computer after it is off (in my mind this is "cold")
Reboot (User/Manual): "restart" the computer after it is on. (in my mind this is "hot")

One user was asked if they ONLY updated safari and then said "Yes. Why?" Why would someone want to know that? I'm having trouble understanding why someone would be asking "why"...so, here it is: we want to know if your computer is having any of the types of crashes reported in the first 6.5 pages of this thread if you've only updated safari either before the sec update(s) or after rolling back !!!
 
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kabaldan

macrumors newbie
Jul 7, 2020
5
4
It seems that the installation of Big Sur beta on an external drive has fixed it for our Mac mini (2018).
No kernel panics after shutdown since friday (when we tested Big Sur), still running Mojave as the main OS, using Safari.
We've been getting the panics (only during shutdown as sleep is disabled here) regularly since the Mojave Security Update 2020-002.

Edit: T2 firmware has been updated by the Big Sur installation to 18P50310o.
The version from the last panic for us has been 17P56045a (which has been probably last updated by a Catalina installation also on external drive).
So the fix may come from the Big Sur T2 firmware update.
 
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Lasthenia

macrumors newbie
May 28, 2020
19
7
It seems that the installation of Big Sur beta on an external drive has fixed it for our Mac mini (2018).
No kernel panics after shutdown since friday (when we tested Big Sur), still running Mojave as the main OS, using Safari.
We've been getting the panics (only during shutdown as sleep is disabled here) regularly since the Mojave Security Update 2020-002.

Edit: T2 firmware has been updated by the Big Sur installation to 18P50310o.
The version from the last panic for us has been 17P56045a (which has been probably last updated by a Catalina installation also on external drive).
So the fix may come from the Big Sur T2 firmware update.

That is good news! Please do continue to monitor and update. Thank you.
 
Comment

stormseq

macrumors newbie
Nov 5, 2018
13
5
Hi guys, I haven’t updated my mini, still on Mojave and running smooth thankfully i skipped the update that started the panics, is the problem anywhere fixed yet? Should i update to catalina?

There is no need as such and I wouldn’t want to risk a perfectly fine machine with an update.
 
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Hessel89

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2017
475
247
Netherlands
It seems that the installation of Big Sur beta on an external drive has fixed it for our Mac mini (2018).
No kernel panics after shutdown since friday (when we tested Big Sur), still running Mojave as the main OS, using Safari.
We've been getting the panics (only during shutdown as sleep is disabled here) regularly since the Mojave Security Update 2020-002.

Edit: T2 firmware has been updated by the Big Sur installation to 18P50310o.
The version from the last panic for us has been 17P56045a (which has been probably last updated by a Catalina installation also on external drive).
So the fix may come from the Big Sur T2 firmware update.

That's interesting! Have you tried enabling sleep already? Does it crash with sleep enabled?
 
Comment

toke lahti

macrumors 68030
Apr 23, 2007
2,649
376
Helsinki, Finland
========
UPDATE—It's been ok since reinstalling 10.15.5 from a fresh download on Saturday—4 days ago.

I assume that both the installed macOS and the local version on the partition drive were flakey and the new install is good. [but it seems odd that the mac doesn't do some kind of integrity, SHA/MD5, check before coming alive so maybe that's not it]

I could not install in the default way, because I could not connect to my WiFi network. I kept getting an error '-2002F'. The internet told me to connect my Mac to the router with an ethernet cable &/or to turn security off my router. Neither worked so I set downloaded 10.15.5 to a flash drive and used this installer https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

I've not crashed but Time Machine is taking an age to encrypt (40% on Saturday 55% today). I also noticed that it was impossible to drag files to folders for the first ½ hour after the install. My hope is that it was just busy getting ready to going back to being good again. Apart from that, the nightmare seems to be over now.

Crashes were always accompanied by reports of 'displaypolicyd.log' in the Console. I've not seen it around since. So that's some reassurance.

I am still getting 'com.apple.hiservices-xpcservice (518)' freezing in Activity Monitor. This didn't happen at the same time as crashes so I think it's irrelevant.

I hope that's useful to someone

========
UPDATE #2— I spoke too soon. It began crashing after a re-start.
Grrr.
I'm a bit puzzled about this 10.15.
Isn't the whole problem about sec.update for 10.14?

One thought came to my mind:
My SIP was disabled when I updated my mini.
Could that affect on how T2's firmware is set...?
 
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Lasthenia

macrumors newbie
May 28, 2020
19
7
I believe some wires got crossed a few posts back. This kernel panic bug only affects Mac mini (2018)'s running Mojave 10.14.6 after installation of the second security update.

In fact, Apple's official solution to this bug is to upgrade to Catalina 10.15.
 
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kabaldan

macrumors newbie
Jul 7, 2020
5
4
That's interesting! Have you tried enabling sleep already? Does it crash with sleep enabled?
Pro Tools don't like the sleep option :). Anyway, I've let the machine to enter sleep at least 10 times today. No panic. Also still no shutdown panic since the last friday.
Please note that we still haven't tried the Big Sur beta2, so these results are with T2 firmware updated by the first beta to this version:
Screenshot 2020-07-09 at 16.01.52.png

I'll try to update to beta2 tomorrow to see if the T2 fw version is any different in beta2.
 
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Hessel89

macrumors 6502
Sep 27, 2017
475
247
Netherlands
Pro Tools don't like the sleep option :). Anyway, I've let the machine to enter sleep at least 10 times today. No panic. Also still no shutdown panic since the last friday.
Please note that we still haven't tried the Big Sur beta2, so these results are with T2 firmware updated by the first beta to this version:
View attachment 932214
I'll try to update to beta2 tomorrow to see if the T2 fw version is any different in beta2.

Congrats! I think you actually found a working solution! :) My Mini hasn't crashed during sleep since last night!
 
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casperghst42

macrumors regular
Jan 11, 2006
108
58
Pro Tools don't like the sleep option :). Anyway, I've let the machine to enter sleep at least 10 times today. No panic. Also still no shutdown panic since the last friday.
Please note that we still haven't tried the Big Sur beta2, so these results are with T2 firmware updated by the first beta to this version:
View attachment 932214
I'll try to update to beta2 tomorrow to see if the T2 fw version is any different in beta2.

There is also a beta Security Update available for Mojave - which does not update the T2 FW version, mine is still 17P56063a. I do not know if that will fix the reboot problem. I will do some testing tomorrow to see. Otherwise I try the Big Sur option.
 
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