Mac Mini as a first Mac?

[Akrapovic]

Been a Windows user for decades, but looking to move to a Mac for the first time and wondering if the Mac Mini is a good way into that ecosystem? Some of these questions might sound silly, but having never used a Mac before it's hard to compare to a Windows PC.

I'm learning web development, but nothing heavy lifting. I can't see me going beyond JS frameworks or SQL/Mongo for a few years. So the most intense application I see myself running is something like Photoshop.

I don't need anything portable, and I like large screens. So I don't think a MacBook (Air or Pro) would be ideal. The iMac seems good, but would the Mac Mini be a better fit? I have 2 monitors already (1 Acer WQHD, 1 1080, and I'd like to at least re-use one of them (the WQHD). Plan on replacing the 1080 one with an Acer 4K. I've never used USB-C/Thunderbolt before. But I guess Thunderbolt to HDMI works fine? I take it running the 2 Acer monitors wouldn't be an issue for the Mini?

I have a nice Logitech keyboard and mouse, and apart from a Windows key on the keyboard (which I assume becomes a command key), I imagine those will work?

RAM seems upgradeable, so I imagine 8Gb is a safe bet, and 16 isn't too hard to upgrade to. And I take it external SSDs for storage would work just fine? So 8Gb, 256Gb SSD seems solid enough. I see there's 3 CPUs. An i3, i5 and an i7. It's obvious which ones are better, but do these make much difference using a mac? Will I regret an i3? Or be happy with an i5?

The Mini seems like it'd do everything I need, for a cheap price point - this seems like a better solution than a MBP and a dock, for example. This also may seem like a rambling post, but as I'm on a tight budget I'd like to make sure what I get actually suits me

 

[kohlson]

Short answer: yes.
Longer answer(s): Some of you questions depend on which Mini. But if you are thinking of a new one, there may be some exceptions. Upgrading memory can be done, IIRC, but it's not easy. Storage is not upgradeable, at least internally.
The Logitech will work, though may need one of the USB ports for their dongle. The Windows keyboard may not be satisfactory, and all the keys may not map as you expect, but keyboards are cheap. Dual displays - yes. If you're thinking dual 4K displays, you may not be happy as that's a lot of pixels to push for an internal GPU.

 

[Fishrrman]

As kohison replied, the answer is "yes".

You can keep using ALL the peripherals that you use right now.
You may need USBc-to-USBa dongle/adapters. I bought a couple myself.

Be aware that "upgrading" the RAM on the 2018 Mini is considerably more involved than just "opening a door and accessing the RAM DIMMs" -- you have to literally "take it apart".

I didn't want to do that, so I paid $170 more (I bought an Apple-refurbished Mini) and got it pre-installed.

Be sure that 256gb is "all you'll need" internally. The SSD's in the 2018 Mini are SOLDERED to the board and ARE NOT "replaceable".

 

[iluvmacs99]

Been a Windows user for decades, but looking to move to a Mac for the first time and wondering if the Mac Mini is a good way into that ecosystem? Some of these questions might sound silly, but having never used a Mac before it's hard to compare to a Windows PC.

I'm learning web development, but nothing heavy lifting. I can't see me going beyond JS frameworks or SQL/Mongo for a few years. So the most intense application I see myself running is something like Photoshop.

I don't need anything portable, and I like large screens. So I don't think a MacBook (Air or Pro) would be ideal. The iMac seems good, but would the Mac Mini be a better fit? I have 2 monitors already (1 Acer WQHD, 1 1080, and I'd like to at least re-use one of them (the WQHD). Plan on replacing the 1080 one with an Acer 4K. I've never used USB-C/Thunderbolt before. But I guess Thunderbolt to HDMI works fine? I take it running the 2 Acer monitors wouldn't be an issue for the Mini?

I have a nice Logitech keyboard and mouse, and apart from a Windows key on the keyboard (which I assume becomes a command key), I imagine those will work?

RAM seems upgradeable, so I imagine 8Gb is a safe bet, and 16 isn't too hard to upgrade to. And I take it external SSDs for storage would work just fine? So 8Gb, 256Gb SSD seems solid enough. I see there's 3 CPUs. An i3, i5 and an i7. It's obvious which ones are better, but do these make much difference using a mac? Will I regret an i3? Or be happy with an i5?

The Mini seems like it'd do everything I need, for a cheap price point - this seems like a better solution than a MBP and a dock, for example. This also may seem like a rambling post, but as I'm on a tight budget I'd like to make sure what I get actually suits me

The Mac Mini is a great way to enter into the Mac ecosystem as it allows bringing in PC equipment and be ready to use them right away. The display dongles may/are necessary to hook up to your external monitors and they work automatically to set the max resolution of your monitors. No issues with running multiple monitors. The only caveat is that the Mini does not have a powerful GPU. The intel iGPU is fine for basic video stuff, but as soon as you plan to push stuff like Photoshop which requires a lot of CPU ram and GPU ram, then you may have to plan in getting an eGPU. PC desktop and laptops come with a pretty decent Nvidia/AMD GPU with a good amount video ram, so you might expect a bit of a set back when going towards the Mini if you expect the same GPU performance as what you find from a PC machine with a capable GPU already. Building an eGPU is pretty simple; buy a box and a GPU and it is plug and play in Mojave.

CPU choice. i3 is a good starter CPU and it is pretty speedy already, but don't focus solely on CPU power if you plan to do graphics stuff as an equally powerful GPU can make the whole system scream compared to a sole Core i5 and i7 system. For example, my Mac Pro 5,1 which has the multi-threaded CPU performance like the Core i3 combined with a Radeon RX580 GPU card (as it has PCIe slots) smokes the new Mini Core i3 hands down with apps like Photoshop, Davinci Resolve and even iMovie plus Topaz AI products like Gigapixel, Sharpen and Adjust AI. Why? It's because of the Radeon RX580 that these apps rely upon for most of the computing power. Which was the reason why I bought the Mac Pro 5,1 used, being a 9 year old computer, because if I am to include the eGPU with the Mac Mini Core i3, it would cost about twice as much as my current Mac Pro 5,1 used.

If you are on a tight budget, the Core i3 is fine and is expandable thanks to the Thunderbolt 3 ports. If you need an eGPU later on, you can add it later. In regards to keyboards. You can buy a wired used Mac specific keyboard for like $10-25 with wireless ones starting from $30 all used. They are so plentiful as people are upgrading to version 2 or 3 of the keyboards. This will improve keys compatibility moving forward. You can use a PC USB mouse. Hope this helps.

 

[yukari]

Contrary to others, I found RAM replacement to be simple and easy. Took only about 10 min to do it myself. I purchased minimum RAM and upgraded to 32 GB myself.

There are lots of YouTube videos showing how to upgrade RAM on MacMini.

 

[Akrapovic]

Thank you for all the responses, it is much appreciated! As much as I love my Apple devices, Macs are new to me so my questions may seem silly!

Dual displays - yes. If you're thinking dual 4K displays, you may not be happy as that's a lot of pixels to push for an internal GPU.

I think it will end up being a 4K and a WQHD eventually but start with WQHD and an HD. I have an Acer H277HU (what a catchy name!) and it's a brilliant WQHD monitor, so I wouldn't mind getting the 4K version of the same monitor. Unsure on the connectors available on them, but there seems to be plenty of cable variety to solve that.

Be aware that "upgrading" the RAM on the 2018 Mini is considerably more involved than just "opening a door and accessing the RAM DIMMs" -- you have to literally "take it apart".

Be sure that 256gb is "all you'll need" internally. The SSD's in the 2018 Mini are SOLDERED to the board and ARE NOT "replaceable".

Thanks for that! Had a look at a video, and whilst it's not as simple as a big tower, it doesn't look *too* bad. Famous last words! I think my plan for storage will be 256Gb internal and then an external SSD for additional files. On my current windows machine I'm only using 300Gb, and it's filled with nonsense that could be shuffled off to a secondary drive quite easily. (Obviously, I don't know the relative size of the operating systems, but I'm assuming around the same).

The Mac Mini is a great way to enter the Mac ecosystem as it allows bringing PC equipment and be ready to use right away. The display dongles may/are necessary to hook up to your external monitors and they work automatically to set the max resolution of your monitors. No issues with running multiple monitors. The only caveat is that the Mini does not have a powerful GPU. The intel iGPU is fine for basic video stuff, but as soon as you plan to push stuff like Photoshop which requires a lot of CPU ram and GPU ram, then you may have to plan in getting an eGPU. PC desktop and laptops come with a pretty decent Nvidia/AMD GPU with a good amount video ram, so you might be expect a bit of a set back when going towards the Mini if you expect the same GPU performance as what you find from a PC machine with a capable GPU already. Building an eGPU is pretty simple; buy a box and a GPU and it is plug and play in Mojave.

CPU choice. i3 is a good starter CPU and it is pretty speedy already, but don't focus solely on CPU power if you plan to do graphics stuff as an equally powerful GPU can make the whole system scream compared to a sole Core i5 and i7 system. For example, my Mac Pro 5,1 which has the multi-threaded CPU performance like the Core i3 combined with a Radeon RX580 GPU card (as it has PCIe slots) smokes the new Mini Core i3 hands down with apps like Photoshop, Davinci Resolve and even iMovie plus Topaz AI products like Gigapixel, Sharpen and Adjust AI. Why? It's because of the Radeon RX580 that these apps rely upon for most of the computing power. Which was the reason why I bought the Mac Pro 5,1 used, being a 9 year old computer, because if I am to include the eGPU with the Mac Mini Core i3, it would cost about twice as much as my current Mac Pro 5,1 used.

If you are on a tight budget, the Core i3 is fine and is expandable thanks to the Thunderbolt 3 ports. If you need an eGPU later on, you can add it later. In regards to keyboards. You can buy a wired used Mac specific keyboard for like $10-25 with wireless ones starting from $30 all used. They are so plentiful as people are upgrading to version 2 or 3 of the keyboards. This will improve keys compatibility moving forward. You can use a PC USB mouse. Hope this helps.

Thanks for that! It does sound like graphics power will be the limiting factor here. When I say Photoshop, I don't want it to to seem like I'm a high-end user. I'm currently running it on a 10 year old AMD 8350 and a GFX 660. I'm mostly making buttons, icons and the odd correction on a photo. eGPUs are a new concept to me, but it does seem a simple enough problem to solve should I run up against a wall. Hopefully, a 4K/WQHD combination won't be too much for it.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the i3 holds up so well. I made the assumption an i5 really is the minimum entry there.

As long as the Mac Mini will do a 4K and WQHD without too much stress then it does sound like a good plan. Apple does say it can run 2x 4K, so it sounds good. I knew you guys would be helpful!

 

[mpfuchs]

Do a few more searches here about the i3 and dual 4k monitors. I seem to recall some gripes with that.
Since you're planning on upping the RAM, you might be fine, but i3, 8GB of RAM and dual 4k sounded like a recipe for disaster for some users.

As far as Photoshop goes, I'm not a high end user either, but it runs fine without an eGPU on my i7/32GB Mini.

 

[bpd115]

Just got an i7. RAM upgrade was extremely easy to do. There is 6 screws on the base plate...one for the antenna cable...4 for the fan....and 2 for the logic board if I remember off the top of my head. Carefully disconnect the cables from the logic board and it slides right out.

Got an eGPU enclosure on eBay for 180 bucks (Akitio Node with an upgraded PSU). Got an 8 Gig RX580 on eBay for $120. It really does work great. The 120mm fan in the node was a little loud so I put in a Noctua fan and the thing is silent as can be. The GPU and PSU fans only turn on when under load.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Part of the issue with the Mac Mini Core i3 not being able to drive dual 4K monitors is that, I suspect people do not realize that you have to use the adapter and attach it directly to the USB-C port. Not through a bunch of dongle conversions like USB-C to TB2 and then TB2 to whichever port they wish to attach to or else they use a third party dongle cheaping out. You'll lose bandwidth. All Mac Minis use the Intel iGPU 630 and the Thunderbolt port I think has only 2 hubs (despite having 4 USB-C ports), so you would be able to attach up to 3 4K displays to any Mac Mini as per Apple official guidance and using Apple genuine dongles as per their guidance. Or else, op for an eGPU and then you can drive even more monitors. People do not realize the beneficial factor of using an eGPU with the Mac Mini 2018. And that is because, you have a script called SetGPU below
https://github.com/mayankk2308/set-egpu

This script in turn forces all applications to use the external GPUs thus accelerating the performance plus the internal displays. This is a privilege that was once enjoyed by Mac Pro users with the optional GPU installed through its 4 PCIe slots. This is now available for all Mac Mini 2018 models through the external GPU case which is infact is an external PCIe slot. Better CPUs are good only for computing power like video encoding (Handbrake), but I am starting to realize that more and more applications like Final Cut Pro X and even iMovie use GPU for most of its screen rendering output.

For people with limited budget to get a Mac, it's wise to understand the equipment you are getting and what will they provide you with performance wise.

Keep in mind that most modern PCs be it laptop or desktop at the price range of even a Core i3 mini comes with a 8th generation Core i5 and a Nvidia GTX 1050Ti; a way more capable GPU than the Intel 630 and I think it should be prudent to point this fact out not to give the impression that someone is getting the performance of a GTX 1050Ti or Radeon 560 with the intel iGPU 630 UHD.

 

[macdos]

If you're thinking dual 4K displays, you may not be happy as that's a lot of pixels to push for an internal GPU.

This is patently false.

 

[Akrapovic]

This is patently false.

Interesting. What is your experience? Apple says it will power 2x 4K displays, but whether it will do that smoothly or not is another matter.

The monitors I'm looking at are the Acer H7 range

• H277HK 27 Inch 4K
• H257HU 25 Inch WQHD

I already own the 25 Inch WQHD monitor for my Windows machine and I love it, although it has no USB-C port.

 

[macdos]

Driving two 4K screens at 3840 x 2160 (or 1920 x 1080) is not a big deal for the internal GPU, and it is as smooth as it can get. Don't use non-integer scaling, though, as this will strain your GPU/CPU.

Running Photoshop or another CC product is also not a big deal, as it does not utilize the GPU as much as you would think. Watching or edit 4K movies is also not a big deal, as the T2 chip has hardware acceleration for this, offloading both CPU and GPU.

However, an external GPU will make a tremendous difference if you render long and complex videos or play GPU intense games or do anything else that use dedicated GPU power (do you do bitcoin?). Heaven benchmark is absolutely ridiculous with the iGPU.

So it depends on what you want to do. For your stated use, there is no need at all for an external GPU.

Interesting. What is your experience? Apple says it will power 2x 4K displays, but whether it will do that smoothly or not is another matter.

The monitors I'm looking at are the Acer H7 range

• H277HK 27 Inch 4K
• H257HU 25 Inch WQHD

I already own the 25 Inch WQHD monitor for my Windows machine and I love it, although it has no USB-C port.

 

[Akrapovic]

Thanks for the additional info!

In the near future, I don't see myself doing any rendering, gaming and certainly not bitcoin lol. I may opt for the i5 just to try and future proof it a little, as I'd like to get 5 years or so out of it. I'll need to do a bit of reading on Thunderbolt/USB-C as I haven't used that before, but all the major questions are answered

 

[iluvmacs99]

Actually, to correct some fallacies in that Photoshop does not utilize a GPU is not entirely correct.

Photoshop, starting with CS4 supports GPU acceleration. In fact, if you have used the feature "Scrubby Zoom" which is used very commonly among even the basic Photoshop users, that is a GPU only function. Meaning, without a GPU or iGPU, this function of zooming in into pixel grid level and zooming out using just a flick of a mouse while pressing the left mouse button is not available. Many photographers love to zoom right into the pixel level to look for noise or for edge sharpness; more than likely you have used scrubby zoom! In fact, even an old Intel iGPU like inside my Mac Mini 2011 is able to do scrubby zoom as the Intel iGPU HD 3000 is supported under Photoshop "BASIC" level acceleration. There are 3 levels (Basic, Normal and Advanced).
Drawing Mode:

• Basic: Uses the least amount of graphics card memory (VRAM) and enables basic graphics processor features
• Normal: Uses more graphics card memory (VRAM) and enables graphics processor-based color matching, tone mapping, and checkerboard blending
• Advanced: Provides the benefits of Normal mode and newer graphics processor advances that can result in improved performance

However, Photoshop accelerated GPU function won't be noticeable UNLESS you are dealing with RAW and TIFF images of much larger than 20MP. If you are dealing with 45 to 50MP coming from a Canon EOS 5DSR or a Nikon D850 or a Hasselblad X1D which produces even larger files, then GPU acceleration will be much more noticeable. The GPU acceleration in Photoshop works in a way like this and if the video card is not able to provide advanced acceleration (at least I can choose it under my licensed copy of Photoshop CS 5,1), you will not see any acceleration at all. This may give a certain group people the distinct impression that Photoshop does not utilize GPU acceleration a lot. I used to work in the digital media industry for 30 years and this was quite a common complaint when I was working then and you can tell by the complaint the level of photography they are at.

Plus the fact that with eGPU support on the Mac OS is that, unlike Windows 10, there is NO eGPU management global support where you can FORCE the eGPU to do all of its legwork acceleration. The OP "COMES" from a Windows environment. In Mac OS, you need to force eGPU support through a hacked script. This is a problem with Mac OS,and NOT with Photoshop. But I see that people think Photoshop will not benefit from an eGPU is not quite correct. It will benefit under the right circumstances with the right GPU that Adobe supports. Traditionally, Adobe prefers CUDA cores as opposed to AMD cards and if you look under CS6 video card support, it seemed to be clear although Photoshop does support AMD and will have to under Mojave and beyond.

 

[bpd115]

In Mac OS, you need to force eGPU support through a hacked script. This is a problem with Mac OS,and NOT with Photoshop. But I see that people think Photoshop will not benefit from an eGPU is not quite correct. It will benefit under the right circumstances with the right GPU that Adobe supports. Traditionally, Adobe prefers CUDA cores as opposed to AMD cards and if you look under CS6 video card support, it seemed to be clear although Photoshop does support AMD and will have to under Mojave and beyond.

If you right click the app and go to get info you can select an option to rely on the eGPU. Isn't the script you're talking about just setting that flag on all apps?

 

[iluvmacs99]

If you right click the app and go to get info you can select an option to rely on the eGPU. Isn't the script you're talking about just setting that flag on all apps?

Yes it is.

 

[danny_w]

The original mini was my first Mac and I loved it even with its quirks. Eventually I tried other Apple systems (PowerBook, Macbook, iMac, etc.) and ended up with a 2012 mini. I've since changed back to Windows, so the mini was both my first and last Mac. Good luck with your decision whatever it may be.