Mac Mini as Windows development workstation?

[MR_Boogy]

I have a 2012 Mac Mini and it's nearing the end of its useful life. In the near future I am likely to be doing significant Windows software development on my local machine (rather than VMs).

I really like the Mini and have grown to like MacOS. The current gen Minis look pretty nicely specced.

But is it a bit silly to go through the hoops of installing Parallels or using BootCamp so I mainly use it for Windows? Am I wasting those nice 6-core chips in a VM? Is BootCamp worth the trouble (I used it years ago and didn't really like it but it may have improved)

 

[hwojtek]

These 6 cores are there exactly for your VMs to feel comfortable. I'd go for VM all the way, the most flexible and comfortable way to run Windows unless you need gaming-level GPU processing.

 

[MR_Boogy]

No GPU use for me - though that's getting pretty good depending which virtualisation tool you use.
My only concern was how much of my resources are reserved to run MacOS - you have to configure how much RAM and cores are offered to the VM and if I'm working on the VM exclusively, I'd want to max it out.

Any specific receommendations, I've always used Parallels vefore?

 

[hwojtek]

I've never used Parallels, VMware guy. On my Mac Pro 5,1 I have a Windows 10 installation with 2 cores/8 GB reserved and it simply flies, once I moved the virtual machine file to a SSD it's just like a regular Windows PC. However, my daughter had to briefly run Windows on her 2014 Mac Mini for a school project that used a Windows-only app. While I did allocate resources exactly the same, it hiccuped occasionally, beachballing (!!!) every 40 seconds. I assume it was a VMware Fusion issue or a Fusion Drive thing, never got into it as they have finished this project at school and I could delete everything.

In my testing I went as far as allotting 10 cores and 48 GB RAM to Windows in VMWare, but didn't see any real gain for the simple tasks I do in Windows. The underlying MacOS was absolutely happy on the other screen with 2 cores and 16 gigs of RAM for its needs. I think 4 cores and a bit more RAM than suggested by VMWare will be snappy enough. What I did notice was that performance begins to suffer if you run very large screens (fullscreen 4K-like). And yes, separate dedicated SSD for VMs, wouldn't recommend running VMs on a conventional hard disk, not to mention on a disk shared with host OS.

 

[pldelisle]

First you need BootCamp. You cannot completely run a mac without macOS in it. You you sacrifice SSD storage just to keep macOS.

Using Parallels is then the best way to run Windows. I have been using Parallels since the last 8 years. It’s a great product. It’s mainly for running Linux VMs for me, not Windows.

But for working all day long within a VM .... No. While it’s convenient, you don’t get the feel of a real OS and it’s stability and you are dependant of another software for running it. For working 8 hours a day on it, I would say get yourself a Windows workstation if you strictly have to work on Windows. Otherwise, Bootcamp, but still you will miss the feel of macOS.

 

[Boyd01]

I just setup a new 2018 Mini a few weeks ago with Parallels and Windows 10 in a 16gb/2-core virtual machine. I use it primarily with Globalmapper, a professional GIS application and am really impressed with how well it works. Quite a bit faster than my 8-year-old Windows PC with 8gb and dual-core i5. I sometimes use this for 4 or 5 hours continuously and haven't seen any crashes or other issues (yet).

I considered using bootcamp but didn't want to partition my SSD and Parallels has so many other advantages. For me, the biggest factor was that some of my windows projects involve hours of compilation/rendering and if I were using Bootcamp, then I couldn't use MacOS during these times.

The VM needs very little disk space, since you can access all your MacOS files (Parallels treats Mac disks as network drives). And of course it's very handy to copy/paste between operating systems and open Windows files by double-clicking them in MacOS (it will start Windows if needed).

Anyway, I don't know how applicable this would be for your needs but I'm really happy I went this route. I consolidated three separate computers (2013 MacBook Air, 2012 Mini and 2012 Windows PC) into one new Mini. Gives me a lot of free desk space and also really simplifies backup. As a bonus, I'm also using Parallels to run Mountain Lion and Sierra virtual machines for my expensive legacy Mac software.

One advantage of Bootcamp is that you wouldn't need as much RAM however. I have 64gb and have seen as much as 42gb in use while running Windows and a few Mac apps at the same time.

 

[hwojtek]

First you need BootCamp. You cannot completely run a mac without macOS in it.

Why? I have a Mac running totally fine Windows 10 and Ubuntu 20 natively with MacOS hard disks removed, what do you mean by "completely"?

But for working all day long within a VM .... No. While it’s convenient, you don’t get the feel of a real OS and it’s stability and you are dependant of another software for running it. For working 8 hours a day on it, I would say get yourself a Windows workstation if you strictly have to work on Windows. Otherwise, Bootcamp, but still you will miss the feel of macOS.

A VM works directly on the hardware you are running it on in modern virtualisation software, Windows is just as stable as installed on the bare metal (actually - a bit more, since there is no need for gazillion of drivers, I never BSOD'ed my Windows VM, while I know perfectly well the sequence to BSOD my bare metal Windows installation on this same computer and it is AMD drivers related). Make it fullscreen and it's exactly the same what a real Windows PC, that's what virtualisation is all about...

 

[pldelisle]

Why? I have a Mac running totally fine Windows 10 and Ubuntu 20 natively with MacOS hard disks removed, what do you mean by "completely"?

I have always read that you can‘t entirely get rid of macOS in a mac. Guess I misread something.

A VM works directly on the hardware you are running it on in modern virtualisation software, Windows is just as stable as installed on the bare metal (actually - a bit more, since there is no need for gazillion of drivers, I never BSOD'ed my Windows VM, while I know perfectly well the sequence to BSOD my bare metal Windows installation on this same computer and it is AMD drivers related). Make it fullscreen and it's exactly the same what a real Windows PC, that's what virtualisation is all about.

True, but sometimes I find Parallels not that much stable. Sometimes it takes a long time to get update for supporting newer Linux kernel for example. It adds a dependency to your workflow which is sometimes not always suitable. You have to try and iterate to find the best workflow.

 

[MR_Boogy]

Nobody is suggesting to get rid of MacOS @pldelisle - I'd still use it as a Mac for non-work stuff.
If I did install BootCamp, I wouldn't need Parallels - this obviously used to be the only way to get good Windows performance on a Mac but these days VMs are wonderfully slick.
I'm not a Linux guy, out of interest can you do a native Linux install with Bootcamp like you can Windows? I seem to recall BootCamp is quite strict what OS it allows?

 

[hwojtek]

I have always read that you can‘t entirely get rid of macOS in a mac. Guess I misread something.

It's been probably a slight hyperbole - obviously you can't make use of some hardware (like TouchID in newer laptops for example), and all the Apple-provided services, but at the end of the day a (current as of July 2020) Mac is a regular Intel PC with some hardware bits added and tightly integrated with software and an unique UEFI architecture that does not play with Windows very well, but that's another story, Ubuntu wouldn't care. It will even run plain MS-DOS.

True, but sometimes I find Parallels not that much stable. Sometimes it takes a long time to get update for supporting newer Linux kernel for example. It adds a dependency to your workflow which is sometimes not always suitable.

Well, I'm not into Parallels so can't relate, but you are right with virtualisation causing an additional layer of software to the workflow. This said, I believe in development work you tend to work in a more or less "frozen" configuration in order to create as stable environment as possible. This will be up to @d000hg though

 

[binaryduke]

I professionally develop Windows stuff in Parallels on a Mac Pro 5,1 and also RDC into a production Windows server. All works well. I have no need for or interest in financial outlay on a dedicated Windows box based upon the performance and efficiency I'm getting.

 

[pldelisle]

It's been probably a slight hyperbole - obviously you can't make use of some hardware (like TouchID in newer laptops for example), and all the Apple-provided services, but at the end of the day a (current as of July 2020) Mac is a regular Intel PC with some hardware bits added and tightly integrated with software and an unique UEFI architecture that does not play with Windows very well, but that's another story, Ubuntu wouldn't care. It will even run plain MS-DOS.



Well, I'm not into Parallels so can't relate, but you are right with virtualisation causing an additional layer of software to the workflow. This said, I believe in development work you tend to work in a more or less "frozen" configuration in order to create as stable environment as possible. This will be up to @d000hg though

Yeah and whats nice is the snapshots of the VM. If something goes bas you can always come back to a previous snapshot. That’s cool.
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and also RDC into a production Windows server.

I really hope there are other steps between your dev machine and the production server..... 😂😂😂

 

[MR_Boogy]

It's an interesting point how this will work with forthcoming non-Intel chips, of course Windows now has ARM support but you really don't want to have to start running different guest OS in VMs.

 

[pldelisle]

It's an interesting point how this will work with forthcoming non-Intel chips, of course Windows now has ARM support but you really don't want to have to start running different guest OS in VMs.

You can't virtualize Windows ARM on AS Mac.

Unless Windows change the licensing for Windows ARM, only manufacturers can deploy and give users a Windows ARM license. If they change it, it won't be a launch time and might take several years since Windows doesn't see anything in ARM platforms.

 

[MR_Boogy]

So what happens then? Sounds like a major job for Parallels & VMWare!

 

[pldelisle]

So what happens then? Sounds like a major job for Parallels & VMWare!

Their software is probably ready. These two are big developers and require some information long before we have access to it. But they certainly had to rewrite their virtualization engine to match new Apple’s virtualization framework.

But even if they are able to boot a Windows ARM VM, it doesn’t matter with the factthat a user cannot buy a Windows ARM license.

 

[Boyd01]

I remember using "Virtual PC" back in the late 90's (?) to run Windows on my PowerBook G3. Many years later, Microsoft bought Connectix and Virtual PC. Unlike Parallels, that was an emulator and it was really slow and buggy. Our finance director finally gave me an old Windows 95 PC they were getting rid of at work, and it was way faster.

Wouldn't something like that be possible on ARM, with a big performance penalty? But I'm glad I got an Intel Mini while I still could, the big appeal for me is the ability to run legacy Windows software in a virtual machine.

 

[pldelisle]

Wouldn't something like that would be possible on ARM, with a big performance penalty?

Maybe, but this wouldn't be a long term solution.