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Mac Mini FACTS: Warranty not voided

Rod Rod said:
Pokemon Mac mini?
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Oh god! You spoke its name!! :eek:

Careful fool! You will summon the demons!! ;) J/K

I'd prefer a 6.5" square FW case that would fit one or two 3.5" HDDs (and of course stack perfectly underneath the Mac Mini). The drives could be oriented east-west with the bridgeboard and fan(s) to the south.
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Yah know. The number of times the stacking hub idea has been brought up I think at this point its a forgone conclusion that someone is going to make one. This thing is so small I can see a whole host of possibilities arise around the mini if it does as well as most expect. :D
 
Or, perhaps, something like this:

raid_mini.jpg
 
Rod Rod said:
SiliconAddict, I don't want a hub. I want a stacking FW400 3.5" ATA HD case. :)
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No I'm talking about the overall concept of expansion under the mimi. If this takes off like the iPod an entire industry could build up around putting something under the mini’s bottom. (That little slut!) :D Including hard drive enclosures, hubs, etc. Hmm how about a LCD display that shows your e-mail status, glows a certain way when there is a Apple Update, displays a equalizer bar graph when iTunes is running, etc. Maybe one chunk that simply is a slot for your iPod? How about a mini UPS?
Make them all stackable maybe even locks to the mini with an aluminum pipe skeleton (Think G5 PowerMac feel to it.)
 
Yvan256 said:
From what I've read, the Mac mini uses a 4200 RPM laptop HD.

Dunno if the machine will overheat if you install a 5400 or 7400 RPM HD (is there such a thing as a laptop 7400 RPM HD?)
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Ah, there's the issue, isn't it? Apple qualifies the hard drives to work in the product over the full temperature range, and at environmental extremes. You should be VERY wary of buying and installing another 2.5 inch drive, especially one of the faster units. It is a well-known fact that there are wide differences in how much heat the various drives put out. You could possibly cause overheating and permanent damage to the HDD, the optical drive, power supply, or the mobo by installing the wrong drive.

Cost isn't the only reason for using a 4200 RPM drive. As a group, they run cooler than 5400 RPM designs. Also keep in mind that the mini does not use an active fan that runs all of the time, moving air over all of the internals--it depends on convection cooling, similar to most laptops.

Cheers,

WCat
 
SiliconAddict said:
No I'm talking about the overall concept of expansion under the mimi. If this takes off like the iPod an entire industry could build up around putting something under the mini’s bottom. (That little slut!) :D Including hard drive enclosures, hubs, etc. Hmm how about a LCD display that shows your e-mail status, glows a certain way when there is a Apple Update, displays a equalizer bar graph when iTunes is running, etc. Maybe one chunk that simply is a slot for your iPod? How about a mini UPS?
Make them all stackable maybe even locks to the mini with an aluminum pipe skeleton (Think G5 PowerMac feel to it.)
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Great concept, SiliconAddict! I will let the Photoshop experts (or 3D modellers) come up with some prototype images. I could definitely see something similar to the U.F.O. for the iMac G4 being released.
 
WCat said:
Cost isn't the only reason for using a 4200 RPM drive. As a group, they run cooler than 5400 RPM designs. Also keep in mind that the mini does not use an active fan that runs all of the time, moving air over all of the internals--it depends on convection cooling, similar to most laptops.
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That might be slightly true but I don't know if it's really a meaningful factor (and I'm not going to go searching through tech info). From what I recall, any difference was very minor and IMO probably negligible.

As a whole, the 4200 RPM drives are older than the 5400 RPM drives and as such the 5400 RPM drives have generally have better power specs. I mean, the 4200 RPM drives are ancient hard drives in computer terms.

Most of the research I've seen suggests that faster (newer) drives don't run any hotter. The reason generally cited is that yes they are hotter, but they're on less time because they are faster. I do recall doing research for this for my PB and found that the power consumption (and hence heat dissipation) of the 7200 RPM was for all practical purposes the same as the 5400 RPM drives.

I could be wrong, but I tend to doubt that the small (and probably neglible) extra heat of these drives is a factor. I suspect it's largely a cost issue. If I got a Mini, I'd definitely consider a HD upgrade and I know the only factor in my decision would be how much the HD cost, not if it was going to overheat.
 
tsk said:
That might be slightly true but I don't know if it's really a meaningful factor (and I'm not going to go searching through tech info). From what I recall, any difference was very minor and IMO probably negligible.

As a whole, the 4200 RPM drives are older than the 5400 RPM drives and as such the 5400 RPM drives have generally have better power specs. I mean, the 4200 RPM drives are ancient hard drives in computer terms.

Most of the research I've seen suggests that faster (newer) drives don't run any hotter. The reason generally cited is that yes they are hotter, but they're on less time because they are faster. I do recall doing research for this for my PB and found that the power consumption (and hence heat dissipation) of the 7200 RPM was for all practical purposes the same as the 5400 RPM drives.

I could be wrong, but I tend to doubt that the small (and probably neglible) extra heat of these drives is a factor. I suspect it's largely a cost issue. If I got a Mini, I'd definitely consider a HD upgrade and I know the only factor in my decision would be how much the HD cost, not if it was going to overheat.
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All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...
I own a G5 iMac in which the logic board has been cooked three times in the three months I have had it.
I worry that Apples lean industrial design philosophy (which I love) could be causing thermal issues in their products if they are configured with faster hardware than Apple makes available in each models custom options....

I really want to buy a mini but not if I have to use a crap ass lame vile slug like 4200rpm drive....

If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.
 
mrwonkers said:
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini. [...] If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.
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Wouldn't an external 80GB 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure be even faster (and less expensive, even including the enclosure) than a 80GB 7200 RPM 2.5" drive?

Less hassle, costs less, possibly faster? (at the only expense of a not-so-clean-anymore desktop) :confused:
 
Yvan256 said:
Wouldn't an external 80GB 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure be even faster (and less expensive, even including the enclosure) than a 80GB 7200 RPM 2.5" drive?

Less hassle, costs less, possibly faster? (at the only expense of a not-so-clean-anymore desktop) :confused:
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Uh yeah thanks for that........having an external hardrive sort of defeats the purpose of having a mini. I am talking about internal drives.......
 
mrwonkers said:
Uh yeah thanks for that........having an external hardrive sort of defeats the purpose of having a mini. I am talking about internal drives.......
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Last time I checked, the purpose of the mini was its low price. :rolleyes:

It also doesn't answer my question about an external 7200 RPM 3.5" drive in a FireWire 400 enclosure vs an internal 4200 RPM 2.5" drive. Anyone ever tested something like this? (iBook with external HD, how to they measure up?)
 
mrwonkers said:
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...
Click to expand...

The problem is that no one can have any factual info except Apple. You want good hard info, you have to talk to them. No one even knows what sort of drive they use (brand and model).

I did some checking here if you want fact and figures.

Here are the power specs on a random Fujitsu 40GB 4200 HD
http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/computing/storage/hdd/mhdd/mht20ahxx-catalog.html

Spin up 5.0W maximum
Read / Write 2.3W typical
Idle 0.85W typical
Standby 0.25W typical
Sleep 0.10W typical

Here they are for a Hitachi 60GB 7200 RPM HD (I am aware of no one who makes 80GB 7200 RPM drives):
http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/7k60/7k60.htm

Startup (max. peak) 5.5 W
Seek (average) 2.6 W
Read (average) 2.5 W
Write (average) 2.5 W
Performance idle (average) 2.0 W
Active idle (average) 1.3 W
Low power idle (average) 0.85 W
Standby (average) 0.25 W
Sleep 0.1 W

You can see that the 7200 uses the same power at sleep/standby/idle as the 4200 and in general, it uses about 10% more during use. Well, if you figure the 7200 RPM does things in 40% faster times than the 4200 RPM, that extra power during reads is a moot point (and in fact the 7200 could actually run cooler based on those numbers). When the HD is just sitting there, they both act exactly the same. If you're using it for normal usage, I don't think it would have any affect. If you go and run something that is going to use your HD continuously for long periods of time, then it might have an affect (like running some programs while you are away that continuously thrash at the HD).

Is this speculative? Yes, of course. Am I a HD expert? No. Might I have missed a critical factor? Yes. Is there any hard info you can get? My best bet would be to call up Apple. I'm willing to guess that 9/10 people you talk to will tell you that Apple will void your warranty if you don't use their HD or some other party line. Anyone else out there know? How could they, the Mini is a week from shipping as it is.

If you do a search of 7200 rpm and PowerBook, you'll probably find some useful info. Trying to put the 7200 RPM in a PB is pretty similar.
 
That article doesn't seem real to me. Why?

The first item is wrong. A mac tests its video circuitry, to make sure it works. A monitor must be connected for the test to pass. Otherwise, the test fails, and the Mac starts up in an ultra-safe-mode that may or may not allow it to connect to a network, etc.

If a monitor is connected, the test passes and all is fine and dandy. Some adaptors fake having a monitor connected, so the Mac will start fine because the video circuitry passes.

(The reason for this is "if the video circuit is bad, there might be other worse things that went bad, so better be careful")
 
mrwonkers said:
All well and good but highly speculative. I need to know can I put any of the 80Gb 7200rpm 2.5" drives currently available into the mini.....
Does anybody have any factual information which would support the use of faster drives in z miniMac...
I own a G5 iMac in which the logic board has been cooked three times in the three months I have had it.
I worry that Apples lean industrial design philosophy (which I love) could be causing thermal issues in their products if they are configured with faster hardware than Apple makes available in each models custom options....

I really want to buy a mini but not if I have to use a crap ass lame vile slug like 4200rpm drive....

If anyboby out there has any factual information to support this either way.....I would love to here it.
Click to expand...

Is this meant to be humor?

1. You want to install an 80GB 7200rpm 2.5" inside the Mac mini.
2. You seem to doubt there would be any problems with heat doing that.
3. You have installed a 300GB SATA drive inside your iMac G5.
4. Two or three of your iMac G5 logic boards have failed because of heat issues.

I'm sorry Apple has been paying for your mistakes, and it's too bad that you appear to fully intend to continue the same pattern of behavior.

External hdd enclosures are great. You shouldn't have everything on your boot drive, and for many purposes (transcoding video for example) it's faster to read from one drive and write to another instead of reading and writing to the same drive. Technology has advanced to the point that you can buy a long FireWire cable and place the external enclosure far from your setup and therefore conceal it.
 
dejo said:
Great concept, SiliconAddict! I will let the Photoshop experts (or 3D modellers) come up with some prototype images. I could definitely see something similar to the U.F.O. for the iMac G4 being released.
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Well, I couldn't wait, SiliconAddict. In case you're curious, make sure to check out the Mac mini add-ons I photoshopped some mockups of over at this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/105254/
 
Rod Rod said:
Is this meant to be humor?

1. You want to install an 80GB 7200rpm 2.5" inside the Mac mini.
2. You seem to doubt there would be any problems with heat doing that.
3. You have installed a 300GB SATA drive inside your iMac G5.
4. Two or three of your iMac G5 logic boards have failed because of heat issues.

I'm sorry Apple has been paying for your mistakes, and it's too bad that you appear to fully intend to continue the same pattern of behavior.
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No it was not meant to be humurous.......having your logic board fried is not funny
The iMac G5 I purchased was fitted with all the afformentioned hardware by an apple retailer.......So if it is indeed the problem perhaps Apple are paying for one of their resellers mistakes. I am only wishing to seek factual information so as to avoid any further ISSUES.
 
mrwonkers said:
The iMac G5 I purchased was fitted with all the afformentioned hardware by an apple retailer.......
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Not to mention, the point is a bit moot because the 300GB Maxtor and Seagates are actually cooler than some of the other drives out there. Not sure who Apple uses for it's 80 and 160GB drives, but if nothing else, it would be the same heat.

You might want to check around for similar threads on a 5400 or 7200 drives in iBooks and P'Books. Accelerate Your Mac has some info about it as well. Since they are built for notebooks, they aren't supposed to get that hot. They are built to run cooler and low power. Still, you might want to wait until someone else tries it, because there may be other issues.
 
panphage said:
Laurie Duncan is the owner and godess of http://www.cubeowner.com. If she isn't reliable we can't rely on the sun to rise tomorrow. Trust me, she's not making it up. AND she's an Apple Certified Technician. Or an apple authorized service provider. Or something like that, I forget which one it is.
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i can second that.

but the article still looks odd to me in that he is announcing the upgrade kit before it's available which apple is usually anal about.
 
Mechcozmo said:
That article doesn't seem real to me. Why?

The first item is wrong. A mac tests its video circuitry, to make sure it works. A monitor must be connected for the test to pass. Otherwise, the test fails, and the Mac starts up in an ultra-safe-mode that may or may not allow it to connect to a network, etc.

If a monitor is connected, the test passes and all is fine and dandy. Some adaptors fake having a monitor connected, so the Mac will start fine because the video circuitry passes.

(The reason for this is "if the video circuit is bad, there might be other worse things that went bad, so better be careful")
Click to expand...

nope, i can boot my cube headless and remote desktop into it, which i did for a while with my cube with ARD and SSH.
 
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