Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Mac OS 9.1 + OSX Mavericks networking possible? (OS 9 won't accept maverick's AFP)

someone has got to help me figure out whats so different between snow leopard + mtn lions appleshare client

works just fine on 10.6.x
but not on 10.8.x
i think 10.7.x would be the same as 10.8.x in that it wouldnt work..
just the "There was a problem connecting to this server" msg popup.
its clear to me that its some type of setting they have raised the minimum
if only i could see what exactly the mac os 9 machine sends to the mac os x machine (via a packetsniffer or something) i could figure this out i bet!
its clearly identifying itself with av ersion and then the osx mtn lion machine is quitting based on some min version criteria

:apple:
 
supernova777 said:
whats so different between snow leopard + mtn lions appleshare client
Click to expand...
It's the protocol. Maybe even encryption levels.

its clear to me that its some type of setting they have raised the minimum
Click to expand...
Indeed they have. The protocol changed, and they dropped support for earlier versions. There are some open source projects out there to restore Appleshare (i.e. http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/ ). Time marches on... Apple doesn't support the old stuff forever.
 
supernova777 said:
connecting from snow leopard mac os x 10.6.x to my mdd mac os 9.2.2
is possible

cmd-k connect to server afp://192.168.x.x
opens + shows me all drives in my mdd

this doesnt work with lion or above i think.. only with snow leopard
trust me it works ive just done it..
filesharing on the mac os 9 machine must be enabled (which requires enabling appleTalk for whatever reason)
its somewhat useless tho because u cant do it the other way around, cant connect mac os 9 to mac os x afp server.... only the mac os x machine will see the mac os 9 machines file share.
Click to expand...

I installed a Wifi adapter into my Dual core G5 and that, running OS X 10.5, now communicates perfectly with my Power Mac 8600 running Mac OS 9.2.2.

These days my Power Mac 8600 runs an FTP server, is hooked up to my Airport network via ethernet, operates a LocalTalk-Ethernet bridge for my Classic II and 512Ke and competently works as an internet browser using Clasilla. :D
 
the best solution i have found it using an interim AFP server such as nas4free
i have this running on an old asus motherboard with 8gb ram + it performs fantastic. afp file protocol gives it built in support for resource forks + meta data so i dont even have to worry about encoding everything to macbinary or using stuffit files (.sit) i can spilll out whatever files frm my mac os 9 os onto the backup server at anytime worry free.. every machine i own can connect to this box thanks to its multiple daemons, but the afp version on it works 100% from my mac os 9 machine aswell as from lion or mtn lion on my imac.

i just connect afp://ipaddress and use user/pass and voila
its mounted natively on the desktop as a remote drive in both recent versions of mac os x + mac os 9.2.2

im amongst hundreds others thinking, why apple? why break connectivity to your own products? "think different? :apple:" id be happy with just "think"
because apparently u do not think of your users who may still be using your older products.. obviously its not an impossibility, obviously it could be made to work with the right minds on the task.

my interest in the old os:
using ancient VSTs + ancient DAWs like
cubase vst 32 5.1, logic audio 6, ableton live 4, digital performer 3
for more info on these topics u can visit www.macos9lives.com
 
  • Like
Reactions: CripplerX
David Schmidt said:
It's the protocol. Maybe even encryption levels.


Indeed they have. The protocol changed, and they dropped support for earlier versions. There are some open source projects out there to restore Appleshare (i.e. http://netatalk.sourceforge.net/ ). Time marches on... Apple doesn't support the old stuff forever.
Click to expand...

i meant whats so different in mtn lion compared to snow leopard as 10.6.x works fine to connect. i honestly think its 100% oversight + negligence and not an actual real reason as to why it cant work but simply that noone bothered to make it work and/or check to see if it was working when mtn lion was released
 
Whats the big deal with using Apple Talk, just configure it over TCP/IP and find the server you want to connect to in the chooser. Use a real protocol... AppleTalk is DEAD!
 
supernova777 said:
ii honestly think its 100% oversight + negligence and not an actual real reason as to why it cant work but simply that noone bothered to make it work and/or check to see if it was working when mtn lion was released
Click to expand...
It's a business decision. It costs money to verify and certify. It costs nothing (but your and my ill will) to drop it. Simple as that.
 
come on guys if u dont have something of value to add
then dont respond to the thread

its not about using apple talk its about using AFP://
to be able to file share + mount natively the drives in a mac os 9
machine on a mac os x lion + os
this results in an error saying its not supported
unsupportedafpserver.png

see the above graphic to see the nice window you will get if you try to do this in lion or above
but the same thing works fine in snow leopard

ive learned that all the afp servers in mac os x are based on "netatalk"
and its "netatalk" to blame really for dropping this support not apple

netatalk v3.0 drops support for appletalk is what i read
im not worried about the discovery appletalk im worried about
being able to copy files + mount drives via AFP://

(its a big mess what is appleshare-ip,what is appletalk, what is appletalk over ip, what is afp?? its all a big mess where does one stop and the other start im not too sure)

but THIS WORKS FINE in snow leopard.. because the netatalk afp client component is using netatalk 2.2 apparently??? thats what i read..
but this is ridiculous its a freaking client APPLESHARECLIENT it should be able to be downgraded or upgraded to ensure compatibility with wahtever system u need it to be the fact that whoever is wanting to network with classic mac os from new mac os is just "SOL **** outta luck" is just bs.. there should be a way to do this

theres been other hacks posted (https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=13166617) on how to edit the properties of this appleshareclient to be able to authenticate with legacy afp shares but those hacks dont fix compatibility to mac os 9
im trying to figure out what the server response is frm the mac os 9 machine's filesharing component
because its clearly sending some version number thats making this appleshareclient spit out this message
instantly.. like in the first few packets

com.apple.AppleShareClient is the component that connects to mac os 9 file sharing
works in 10.6.x
broken in 10.7.x+
 
Last edited:
Assuming you know how to set up a TCP/IP network, Click on Chooser

AppleMenuChooser.gif


Click on the Apple Share icon

ChooserAppleShare.gif


Click on Server IP address

ChooserServerIP.gif


enter the server IP address Click on connect and then enter your username details

chooserUserLogin.gif


Select the shares you want to mount.

chooserVolumes.gif


Stop using AFP and use a proper file sharing protocol, whas that so hard? :rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
whtas funny is that the post by orestes1984
where is he says "Stop using AFP and use a proper file sharing protocol"

meanwhile in the very example hes just shown..
its actually using APPLETALK/AFP OVER TCP/IP
lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleShare
All versions of Mac OS were capable of acting as a client to an AppleShare server (via AFP and later SMB) over AppleTalk and TCP/IP protocols, although more recent versions of OS X have gradually removed support for AppleTalk in favor of the standard TCP/IP.
Click to expand...

funny;) lol
 
tevion5 said:
I have a Mac OS 9 retail ISO with the 9.1, and 9.2.1 updates separate, as well as the helper. I believe 9.2.1 adds proper USB support as well. I have an old PCI usb 2.0 card so I might try that, it would make file transfers nice and simple.

I might give the SMB thing on windows a go instead then. Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...
What do you mean proper USB support? From Mac OS 8.1 (a special build for the original iMac's) onwards, all had support for USB
 
pacmania1982 said:
What do you mean proper USB support? From Mac OS 8.1 (a special build for the original iMac's) onwards, all had support for USB
Click to expand...
It may be so but it was still a little flaky. Drivers and driver shims and third parties didn't make it very good on 8.1. I'd say things got better with 8.6 - which supported the same stack as 9.1.
 
MacTech68 said:
It may be so but it was still a little flaky. Drivers and driver shims and third parties didn't make it very good on 8.1. I'd say things got better with 8.6 - which supported the same stack as 9.1.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean it was stable, I was simply replying to someone saying that USB only came in with 9.2.1
 
pacmania1982 said:
I didn't mean it was stable, I was simply replying to someone saying that USB only came in with 9.2.1
Click to expand...
Well, you could argue that it wasn't 'proper'/reliable/stable until 9.x.x, with updates (which 8.6 uses too).

But yes. 8.1 on a tray load iMac & at least the ROM file & firmware update kind of makes USB work - mostly. ;)
 
Hi,

I found this thread as I am looking for a way to network Classic Mac OS with OS X 10.6 and up via AppleTalk as well as print to old AppleTalk LaserWriters from OS X 10.6+. I know it is possible to do that via a Virtual Machine or even a separate computer. But that is what I would like to avoid.

Now there is some confusion about AppleTalk and AFP (Apple Filing Protocol). A while ago I tried to sort that out and this is what I've found:

Originally the way AppleTalk was transported was via DDP, contrary to TCP/IP which was introduced (and running next to DDP) to Mac OS in version 7.6. DDP got dropped in OS X 10.4 and up.
Next to that, Mac OS 9.1 supports AFP up to version 2.2 which was supported through OS X 10.5. 10.6 and up only support AFP version 3.0 and newer.
I read somewhere that even if AFP versions don't match some communication between machines might be possible. But not everything functions, and often it doesn't at all.

In order to connect Mac OS 9.1 to OS X 10.6 or newer, netatalk on OS X should do. In theory it is possible to install it using Mac Ports (they offer version 2.0.5 supporting AFP v 1.1 through 2.2 and 3.0 + 3.1). For me installation didn't succeed on OS X 10.8. Others report to have installed it on 10.6 and still use it after upgrading to 10.8 or newer.
From v 3.0 the netatalk website says AppleTalk is not supported anymore. What they mean by that is that transportation is only possible via TCP/IP, not via DDP anymore. Now netatalk never included DDP but relied on the system kernel to provide it. Kernels of present versions of unix-like systems do not include DDP anymore which is why netatalk has dropped support.

Without the use of a Virtual Machine, the only way for present versions of OS X to connect to Classic Mac OS via AFP up to v 2.2 and/or DDP is by purchasing a very expensive commercial product called Helios EtherShare. Unless someone succeeds to install netatalk via Mac Ports (and compiles DDP into the kernel of OS X if connecting to Mac OS 7.5 and lower is required) OR builds CAP (Columbia AppleTalk Package) on OS X.

There is more information to be found at http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8589#p50155 , also regarding CAP.

I think making CAP work on OS X would be the better solution. Is there anyone who is able and willing to do this?

For reference there's a comparison of some AFP servers at knubbelmac.de: http://www.knubbelmac.de/themen/afp-server-vergleich.html . It's in German, but the chart provided there should communicate in any language.


mabam
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacTech68
MacTech68 said:
Well, you could argue that it wasn't 'proper'/reliable/stable until 9.x.x, with updates (which 8.6 uses too).

But yes. 8.1 on a tray load iMac & at least the ROM file & firmware update kind of makes USB work - mostly. ;)
Click to expand...

Here's a brief little anecdote to add to what(I realize) is an old thread.

Back in September 2014, I was given a beautiful, meticulously cared for B&W G3. The original owner did want her files off of it. I said "no problem" and just said I'd put them on a USB disk.

Not knowing any better, she went out and bought a 32gb USB stick-or nearly 3 times the size of the original hard drive(12gb).

In any case, since this was all at work, I just set the B&W up on the corner of my desk and thought I'd plug in the USB stick and let it spend a couple of hours moving files(6gb takes a while over USB 1.1).

Unfortunately, that's where the trouble started. The B&W shipped with 8.5.5. Unfortunately, 8.5.5 contains no support for USB mass storage devices.

In fact, the original owner had apparently encountered this not too long ago(there were files as recent as 2010 on the computer) and there was a copy of the USB Mass Storage Device extension on the finder desktop. I attempted to install it, but was told that it could only be installed on 8.6.

I used my laptop to download the 8.6 update from Apple's website and attempted to upgrade. Unfortunately, I was also met with a dead optical drive.

Finally, I ended up doing what I should have done in the first place, which was pull the hard drive and use an external enclosure to copy it with my laptop. This took less time than installing the 8.6 update would have :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacTech68
the easy fix for this :
regardless of cpu architecture(intel vs ppc) any Apple machine running 10.3 or 10.5 should work fine to serve files to other os7/8/9 machines over AFP file sharing protocol

the most likely candidates:
any early intel mac that can run leopard;
any g3/g4 that can run panther;

or you can use a NAS4FREE / FREENAS server (because they have netatalk AFP)
 
tevion5 said:
Is there any way to network a Mac OS 9.1 and OSX mavericks?

I am able to share files from my Power Mac G5 running OSX 10.5.8 to my PM 8600 running Mac OS 9.1. When I try to connect to my G5's IP in the OS 9 "Chooser" it connects and can browse my G5's HDD without issue, over my Airport network. :D

However, when I try to connect to my MacBook Pro running OSX 10.9.1 running an identical file server with identical settings, it tells me it has an incompatible version of AFP (Apple File-share Protocol). :(

I know that Apple removed lots of old networking features in Mavericks, including even FTP! :mad:
Clearly, Maverick's version of AFP is just too modern for Mac OS 9 to handle.

So my question is, is there any work around with perhaps a 3rd party app on my MacBook, for it to share it's files to my 8600, while running Mavericks? :confused:
Click to expand...

I solved the problem with SheepShaver:
SheepShaver runs on OS 10.12 Sierra and allows you via the Chooser to connect to OS 9.1. (FileSharing must be active and TCP/IP enabled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tevion5 and MacTech68
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back