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Mac OS X 10.2.2 is on the developer site
- Thread starter bousozoku
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Re: Re: Fix the many Jaguar bugs and breaks
I know it should be the job of the software (and hardware) makers to conform to the OS, but I've experienced far more hardware incompatibilities upgrading to Jaguar than I did upgrading to OSX. It seems like about 50-75% of the software I use came out with upgrades to be Jag compatible.
The problem is that OSX compatible means nothing, it must say Jag compatible, which few things actually say. I think a lot of software and hardware makers were caught off guard with how extensively things were going to change.
I have TWO FireWire CD burners that were OSX compatible but don't work in Jag. A USB card reader, a FireWire hard drive, and most importantly the software for my XLR8 G4 upgrade won't load (and the company is out of business). In addition, there is something else *just not working* which keeps my Mac from starting up reliably. I've heard of others who now have printers or scanners not working.
Anytime a new OS comes out, there should be a reasonable level of existing compatibility. In my experience they failed. This could've be done either by making their OS compatible or working with 3rd parties to have them conform to the OS. At the very least, they could've published a compatibility chart. This would've given more of an impression that this was a serious hard core upgrade.
Finally, there should be some things that are locked down in the OS so that we can count on them not changing. It's bad enough to think that peripherals will be superceded with faster/better products in such a short time, but to think that in even a shorter time period they simply won't work with the OS leaves a bad taste in your mouth. As a result, one looks at alternative OSs and whether or not there is greater consistency.
In terms of speed improvements, I'm content with the speed of Jag on my G3 (upgraded to a 500MHz G4 with 768MB of RAM). Sure, I'd like something faster, but the computer performs faster overall in Jag than it does in OS9.
I know it should be the job of the software (and hardware) makers to conform to the OS, but I've experienced far more hardware incompatibilities upgrading to Jaguar than I did upgrading to OSX. It seems like about 50-75% of the software I use came out with upgrades to be Jag compatible.
The problem is that OSX compatible means nothing, it must say Jag compatible, which few things actually say. I think a lot of software and hardware makers were caught off guard with how extensively things were going to change.
I have TWO FireWire CD burners that were OSX compatible but don't work in Jag. A USB card reader, a FireWire hard drive, and most importantly the software for my XLR8 G4 upgrade won't load (and the company is out of business). In addition, there is something else *just not working* which keeps my Mac from starting up reliably. I've heard of others who now have printers or scanners not working.
Anytime a new OS comes out, there should be a reasonable level of existing compatibility. In my experience they failed. This could've be done either by making their OS compatible or working with 3rd parties to have them conform to the OS. At the very least, they could've published a compatibility chart. This would've given more of an impression that this was a serious hard core upgrade.
Finally, there should be some things that are locked down in the OS so that we can count on them not changing. It's bad enough to think that peripherals will be superceded with faster/better products in such a short time, but to think that in even a shorter time period they simply won't work with the OS leaves a bad taste in your mouth. As a result, one looks at alternative OSs and whether or not there is greater consistency.
In terms of speed improvements, I'm content with the speed of Jag on my G3 (upgraded to a 500MHz G4 with 768MB of RAM). Sure, I'd like something faster, but the computer performs faster overall in Jag than it does in OS9.
I personally also saw a lot of programs that wouldn't open after installing 10.2 but found most of them worked simply after reinstalling them.
Those don't count. I'm only talking about apps and hardware that have incompatibilities with Jaguar. My experience has been about 50-75% of OSX compatible stuff have some problem with Jag. Many times, but not always, the problems are insignificant and you wouldn't even notice or wouldn't attribute the problem to Jag. Take a look on VersionTracker for the number of apps you have that have had some minor revision to work with Jag, YMMV
And yes for anyone wondering, I've done re-installs, clean installs, erased the HD, etc... The incompatibilities I'm talking about that make up the 50-75% of my apps and peripherals are those verified by vendor.
Okay, I was just checking to see what you knew about this. I know that there were a lot of changes. 10.2 had some pretty significant changes in it and we will probably see some more before I consider OSX to be a complete OS.
I haven't had any problems with 10.2, all my apps work just fine, and I don't see any reason why developers (including myself) shouldn't have to keep our software up to date with the system. As for hardware...again, all of mine works flawlessly, if your vendor is to lazy to keep their drivers up to date, or release the specs to the public so SOMEONE can update the drivers, then don't buy stuff from them. How do the hardware vendors expect to get revenue when they don't have a driver to support their product. Basically *all* of your 3rd party software and hardware is just that, 3rd party hardware and software. These developers should involve themselves with the ADC, so that they get seeded builds and can have those new drivers / versions availiable and ready when the next OS revision comes out. Its not in any way apples responcibility that some vendor isn't keeping up. Go cry somewhere else.
You don't have many apps or peripherals.
Take a look at VersionTracker for how many apps and drivers have updates that say, "Now compatible with Jaguar"
Someone once told me that if everyone says you're acting like an ******, it has to tell you something about how you treat people. That's what's going on with Apple. There was a major OS upgrade with OSX. Many developers re-wrote software/drivers, and some things never made it (like my ATI TV Tuner).
That's ok. It's understandable that some developers won't upgrade their products. This is to be expected with any OS. However, the key point that I'm trying to make here isn't a crying about "things don't work, I hate Jag", but rather there's a reality that some equipment and software was lost/broken with the upgrade to OSX, some was lost/broken with 10.1-10.1.5, but quite a bit was lost/broken with Jag. At some point it factors into the equation of OSX being worth it.
I'm not talking about nameless companies. I'm talking ATI, Fantom, QPS, LaCie, Kodak, Afga, Kodak, and Epson.
It doesn't matter that these are 3rd party products, or who *should* be resonsible...especially since Apple doesn't offer some of these products...though they do sell and/or endorse some of these.
What does matter is I saw QPS on Apple's Website and bought the drive, it stopped working at 10.1.5. I bought a Fantom as seen on Apple's site and it stopped working with 10.2. If I buy a drive now, will it work with 10.2.2? How will I know?
There have been a lot of incremental upgrades since the introduction of OSX where you just sit back and see what now works and what now is broken.
Now here's the key point... If there's a perception that 3rd party products have compatibility problems and/or tend to stop working with OSX, that becomes a problem for Apple as it affects people's decisions in adopting OSX.
Apple needs to get beyond, "It's not our responsibility", and look after the interests of its customers. (BTW I would give them high marks for this, as compared to others, but I'm pointing out right now, there's room for improvement).
To put this all back in context, as asked what I'd like to see in 10.2.2 and 10.2.3, I could care less about iStuff, I just want to make sure things work well.
I do agree that they need to focus more on there current customers and less on achieving more customers. This is because what good is it to gain 5,000 new customers in a month if you lose 3000-6000 durring that same time. I'm not saying that that is happening I'm just giving an example of a very potential scenario.
On the other hand I don't know why they have broken programs with the upgrades and I don't know how they have communicated with developers and how much time developers had. It could very well be that the change in the system was for the better and that the developers are just sitting around with there thumbs up there arse.
In any case Apple needs to come out of the closet and communicate better with there current customers. Also if what I have read has been correct they also need to communicate better with the software and hardware developers. There secrecy on all products does more to harm them then good. I have seen this for years with BMW motorcycles. BMW is constantly answering questions that were never asked with the development of new bikes and not fixing current problems simply because they want to be so secret about everything that they fail to get the consumers view on the product.