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Mac Pro 2.26 Nehalem Leasing - Lost Money

S

seisend

Suspended
Original poster
Feb 20, 2009
509
2
Switzerland
Hi there,

I am a music student from switzerland and I want to go buy a Mac Pro 2.26 Nehalem for using Logic Studio and work with Full HD Movies basically in iMovie. So whats the problem. I wanted to buy a 2008 8 Core 2.8Ghz for about 2000 Dollars over the internet three weeks ago. But this was one of the biggest mistakes of my life, I realized this a day after the payment. *DOH !*. Actually I am really careful with internet transactions but I got scammed and I lost 2000 Dollars and got no Mac Pro yet... At the moment, I am working with the police together, because there are bad cyber criminals behind that. If you want to know how that happened, ask me , but this is not the reason of this thread . I wanted to ask what do you guys think about leasing a Mac Pro in my position because I don't have the money now at all...?? Here is what I approximate:

:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4400 (swiss franks) - Original normal Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4100 (swiss franks) - Apple Student Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4600 (swiss franks) - apple leasing 12 month inlusive student discount.

So I would lost 200 or 500 swiss franks (170-450 Dollar), from the prospect of view..

My thoughts:

Pro Leasing

Got that beast now
Can pay the money in a year - every month
will have the money

Contra Leasing

More expensive
danger to run into dept`???
i can get invalid and cant work anymore for the money

- There is also no Mac Pro 2008 for a good price in switzerland available, so I will go for the new one now !

GOOD IDEA - Leasing? or Working another 3-4 months :( for the money ??

thanks for the help. regards
 
seisend said:
Hi there,

I am a music student from switzerland and I want to go buy a Mac Pro 2.26 Nehalem for using Logic Studio and work with Full HD Movies basically in iMovie. So whats the problem. I wanted to buy a 2008 8 Core 2.8Ghz for about 2000 Dollars over the internet three weeks ago. But this was one of the biggest mistakes of my life, I realized this a day after the payment. *DOH !*. Actually I am really careful with internet transactions but I got scammed and I lost 2000 Dollars and got no Mac Pro yet... At the moment, I am working with the police together, because there are bad cyber criminals behind that. If you want to know how that happened, ask me , but this is not the reason of this thread . I wanted to ask what do you guys think about leasing a Mac Pro in my position because I don't have the money now at all...?? Here is what I approximate:

:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4400 (swiss franks) - Original normal Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4100 (swiss franks) - Apple Student Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4600 (swiss franks) - apple leasing 12 month inlusive student discount.

So I would lost 200 or 500 swiss franks (170-450 Dollar), from the prospect of view..

My thoughts:

Pro Leasing

Got that beast now
Can pay the money in a year - every month
will have the money

Contra Leasing

More expensive
danger to run into dept`???
i can get invalid and cant work anymore for the money

- There is also no Mac Pro 2008 for a good price in switzerland available, so I will go for the new one now !

GOOD IDEA - Leasing? or Working another 3-4 months :( for the money ??

thanks for the help. regards
Click to expand...

Leasing is bad.
You're better off buying it on credit.
 
You'll be a fool twice. I say give up your ambitions for having a Mac Pro. Perhaps a used Mac Mini would be more suitable for your intellectual capacity.
 
trancepriest said:
You'll be a fool twice. I say give up your ambitions for having a Mac Pro. Perhaps a used Mac Mini would be more suitable for your intellectual capacity.
Click to expand...

I got already a MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz and I know what I want, and I know that I'll need a Mac Pro, cause a Mac Mini will never fit the performance I need with 96KHZ 24 bit recordings ! The question is not, what should I buy, it is how - is leasing good (?) .. thanks
 
trancepriest said:
You'll be a fool twice. I say give up your ambitions for having a Mac Pro. Perhaps a used Mac Mini would be more suitable for your intellectual capacity.
Click to expand...

cut him some slack, it can happen easily to get raped on the internet..
 
seisend said:
Here is what I approximate:

:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4400 (swiss franks) - Original normal Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4100 (swiss franks) - Apple Student Price
:apple:Mac Pro 2.26 (incl. Options) : CHF 4600 (swiss franks) - apple leasing 12 month inlusive student discount.

So I would lost 200 or 500 swiss franks (170-450 Dollar), from the prospect of view..

My thoughts:

Pro Leasing

Got that beast now
Can pay the money in a year - every month
will have the money

Contra Leasing

More expensive
danger to run into dept`???
i can get invalid and cant work anymore for the money

- There is also no Mac Pro 2008 for a good price in switzerland available, so I will go for the new one now !

GOOD IDEA - Leasing? or Working another 3-4 months :( for the money ??

thanks for the help. regards
Click to expand...

IMO the only time leasing is an advantage is when it's done by a company with lots of support needs over many machines. Then with the lease comes a zero or almost zero down-time per workstation and every 6 months to a year or so the hardware is upgraded. Additionally there are some extra tax benefits to this as well. In all for 20 to 200 machines, leasing makes sense. I haven't seen a lease agreement where it actually made any sense for an individual or small boutique to lease less than ten or twenty machines. It looks like by your own estimations that would hold true in Swiseserland too.

On another note I sometimes will rent equipment for a week or two if I can't get enough tangible information on the goods to make a decision.

Aren't there in-store credit loans like there are in Japan - where you can just fill out a contract, take it home and make payments over time? Here there are 6-months, 1-year, 3-years, and 5-year standard loans for products under $10,000.00 and all you really need is a photo-ID and of course no defaulted loans.

Another thing to consider IMO is if you should even be buying Apple hardware if indeed you're considering the 2.26GHz unit. You can get a DELL for 30% less or roll your own for 1/2 price and install OS X with just a little bit of work. That will save you $1,500 to $2000 right there. If I were a strapped student that is definitely the way I would go! People on this site who have actually done this almost all report that everything just works and that there are no problems with doing it. The Apple 2.26 hardware is probably the worst "deal" in the past decade for any platform. I think prudent students should seek out better deals.
 
I agree, the 2.26, to me, is not a great bang for the buck, but going with a Dell or Hackintosh is a bad idea for Seisend.

He wants to run Logic. Logic is a beautiful piece of software, but it is finicky and, for stability and hassle free running, you need an authentic Apple machine.

Siesend, do you have any low interest credit options? I lease my Mac Pro, but I am a "pro" musician and therefore I can write off the lease on my taxes. But my other Mac I put on a low interest credit card. Less overall cost than leasing.
 
@ Tesselator and Matt Dean,

I am not sure,if a custom setup PC or Dell or whatever works fine with all my programms and plugins. That would be so frustrated, if I would buy a PC and there would come up some major problems ! So I am sure my model from the apple product line is a Mac Pro,cause 96'KHZ and 24bit with a lot synthis needs a fast CPU, can you surely confirm this Matt Dean right? Also I already got two 24" Samsung Displays on my Desk, so a iMac would be pointless and has not enough power... I really need to say, that I use this product to work, to make music hours a day and I want to take my recordings on a new level with much more power. Also , the Mac Pro is a investment for the future and I will use it surely for 3-5 years. I decided myself months ago to buy a Mac Pro and I am daily checking this forum about Mac Pro and co. ... So I think, there is nothing to change on my decision. The price is more expensive on the new one I know that, for this reason I wanted to buy a 2008 Mac Pro BUT without success ;-) There is no other Mac Pro 2008 in my country for a good price.

I think you both are right, leasing is not the right way for me. I will inform myself about low credit options on any swiss bank and let's see what the conditions are... Thanks !
 
What are your options to purchase the hardware at the end of the 12 month period? Do you get a $1 buyout, or do you have to pay x% of the value to continue using the machine? If it's a $1 buyout, then you are not getting completely hosed - if it's more than that, then you are paying more than the cost of the machine to have the use of that machine for only 1 year.
 
Well, I definitely don't recommend anything but a Mac Pro for what you want to do. Be prepared for possible delays in some plug-ins not working smoothly with the 2009 Mac Pro for a few months. But, once they are all online with the new hardware it will rock! Try to find out whether Logic users find the 8 core 2.26 better than the 2.66 quad. Not sure which will be a better machine for Logic exclusively.

My 2008 2.8 octo never reaches %50 of my CPU's and I use a LOT of audio and virtual instruments and plug ins. So, the new machine will be fine for you as long as you set things up to use all 8 cores. Check here for some info on that:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3161

Just make sure you have at least 8 gigs of RAM (buy from someone other than Apple)

Also, check out the Apple discussions on Apple's site for more info on Logic.

http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1201

As for leasing, you are paying %12 on top of the price. Any other credit card, payment, etc that is less than %12 is a better choice.

Also, don't forget to see if there are any tax benefits for students in your country for leasing. For me, it's worth leasing because of the tax write off, but that's for me.

Good luck and good music!
 
Its only a ~10% penalty over a year.

If you must have it, its not the worst way to go. Credit cards can be over 20%.

If you can get the apple credit card, it is 0% I think for a year, but I don't know about overseas.
 
@ bamf , after the 12 Months the product will be mine (END of leasing) and I don't have to pay anything. (That's what the Apple dude told me).

@ Matt Dean - thank you, I already know this with the 8 Core thing and the plugins. This is a good point, but I think with next Logic Version (addon), this "problem" will be better fixed for using multiple cores (or maybe 10.6) I will check out the discussions on apple.com too.Question, why do you think 8 gigs are good? wouldnt be 6 gig enough? and later I can upgrade to 12? -Because DDR3 Rams doesnt work as fast with 2/4/8/16/32 Rams. Better 3/6/12/18/ .There are other topics too about that here. I will check what I could do with low credits in switzerland tomorrow. The leasing is 13.5% for 12 Months here. Also the price is more than in US. 2009 8 Core Mac Pro Standart configuration (without student discount) is CHF 4100 (that's 3550 dollar).

regards
 
Leasing

Leasing can be good, but sometimes it's difficult to compare with a loan.

Here is a link to a loan and lease calculator.

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/marketplace/index.cfm?event=marketplace.offering&categoryid=10&marketplaceid=1&orderby=mostrecent&orderdirection=asc&offeringid=10580

We will use the Equal Payments calculator on the left side.

Here is an example. Let's pretend the system costs $4,000. The loan has 36 payments at $140 each month. This is very easy to find the interest rate. Enter $140 for the Payment, $4,000 for the Present Value, and 36 for the Term. Now click on the Solve button next to the Rate. It should show the Rate as 15.682 percent.

With a Lease, there are often Advanced Payments involved. This is similar to a down payment. Many time there are 2 advanced payments required. Sometimes it can be 3 or 1, but 2 is most common. Using the same info from the first example, select 2 in the Advanced combo box. Now click the Solve button next to the rate again. The rate should now be 17.744 percent. Since the advanced amount is paid up front at the start of the lease, it has the affect of making the rate higher.

You must also be aware of any Residual value, often called a Balloon, Final Payment, Residual, or Future Value. This can be any amount. Let's assume that there is a $400 residual amount. Enter $400 in the Future Value box and click the Solve button next to the Rate. The Rate is now 22.134 percent.

Now you can compare a lease offer with a credit card or bank loan. If this is too confusing, just post back your options to this thread and I will calculate the rates for you.

Good luck!
 
Yes, 6 GB is fine for that machine. My machine works in pairs, not in groups of three, so it was a habit to say 8 GB. Anything more than 4 GB will work for you.

And yes, I too, hope the next version of Logic will utilize the cores better.
 
How about ordering from Macmall.com? I've ordered 2 mac pros last year from them and they were great.

You can sign up with their preferred account, pay nothing for the first 6 months (you can pay off little by little each month if you want).

Anyway if this isnt an option, I'd suggest paying the Mac Pro off with your credit card then just making minimum payments until you save enough up to pay the whole balance off close to the year.
 
@ jjahshik32 , seems to be a nice shop. But I live in switzerland, makes it much more complicated.

@ trancepriest , you are the last person I would buy Memory Rams from ..

@ Boneoh, thank you. I downloaded the calculator and will check it out ! Also I found a good Bank called GE Money Bank.(www.gemoneybank.ch)

Credit I need : CHF 3000

Deal by Ge Money Bank for BARCREDIT CHF 3000 :

term : 6 Months

tax and creditcost :

minimal: 9.95% - CHF 83.90 (c.a 50 Dollar)
maximal. 14.5% - CHF 120.25 (c.a 90 Dollar)

rate per month:

minimal: CHF 514.00 (9.95%)
maximal: CHF 520.05 (14.5%)



Apple Financial Leasing Swiss:

Mac Pro I want costs CHF 4070

term: 12 Month (minimal time of term)

tax and credit cost:

13.5% (of the original price) - CHF 549.45 (c.a 470 DOLLAR !!!)

rate per month:

CHF 384.95

-

In my view, Ge Money Bank credit is a much better deal than Apple Leasing. What do you guys think? I could take a credit for 12 months too from ge money bank, but I want to pay it in 6 months cause of less credit cost too.
 
seisend said:
In my view, Ge Money Bank credit is a much better deal than Apple Leasing. What do you guys think? I could take a credit for 12 months too from ge money bank, but I want to pay it in 6 months cause of less credit cost too.
Click to expand...


While I wouldn't usually recommend leasing of any kind (because you don't end up owning the machine after) I would recommend taking out a loan and paying off the machine with that. You'll just have to pay the bank back the loan instalments.

I was going to do that, however I realised I was able to get enough money together if I sold a few of my car parts that I wasn't using any more. I ended up with enough money to cover the MacPro and then some!

Also, have you considered selling the Macbook Pro to help with the funds? I sold my Macbook Air to help out with the costs.
 
JasO said:
While I wouldn't usually recommend leasing of any kind (because you don't end up owning the machine after) I would recommend taking out a loan and paying off the machine with that. You'll just have to pay the bank back the loan instalments.

I was going to do that, however I realised I was able to get enough money together if I sold a few of my car parts that I wasn't using any more. I ended up with enough money to cover the MacPro and then some!

Also, have you considered selling the Macbook Pro to help with the funds? I sold my Macbook Air to help out with the costs.
Click to expand...

MacBook Pro selling? That would be the last thing I would sell, cause I use it at school and I use my music projects a lot on the road outside with other artists. I still really love my laptop.
 
seisend said:
MacBook Pro selling? That would be the last thing I would sell, cause I use it at school and I use my music projects a lot on the road outside with other artists. I still really love my laptop.
Click to expand...

In that case keep the laptop! yeah the current word finances aren't doing so well...guess if you aren't in America you're paying big dollars.
 
Be very careful with credit cards or variable rate interest loans. If you are late with a payment, the Apple (Juniper) card will jump to over 20% interest! Some can go as high as 29% :eek: Leases and fixed rate loans don't have this hidden gotcha, most folks are not aware of this.

As far as leasing goes, you do need to check out the "end of lease option", sometimes called the residual amount, balloon payment, final payment, or future value. This can be as low as $1 or as high as 10% of the purchase price. This amount is what you pay at the end of the lease to "purchase" the computer.
 
seisend said:
@ Tesselator and Matt Dean,

I am not sure,if a custom setup PC or Dell or whatever works fine with all my programms and plugins.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I think these forums and others like them are great for that. Ask and then single out replies from people with actual experience. Likely they have the same software and tried the same plug-ins. There are also sites dedicated JUST to running OS X on alien hardware and their knowledge can be very helpful. More than here where there seems to be a fair degree of Apple fanatics.

I think you both are right, leasing is not the right way for me. I will inform myself about low credit options on any swiss bank and let's see what the conditions are... Thanks !
Click to expand...

Don't they have in-store financing there? Here and in the USA at the Apple Store or really any place that sells PC goods all you have to do is mention "loan" and they pull out a form from under the desk. You fill it out, they make a phone-call, and you're walking out with the goods. Then just open a special account just for that item and make sure there's always a payment of two's worth of cash in it till the end of the loan term. You build credit and you own the device so at the end of it all you can sell the machine and get half or more of your money back for your next machine - or whatever.
 
Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash.

If you don't have the money, don't buy it, don't lease it.
 
m1stake said:
Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash. Buy with cash.

If you don't have the money, don't buy it, don't lease it.
Click to expand...

That's a really tiresome argument.
Credit -- if used wisely -- is an amazingly useful tool.

When not used wisely, just consider it to be a "training" cost, allowing you to use it better next time.

Given the earlier theorized $4000 figure, let's say you find a 0%/6m (or 12m, whatever floats your boat) credit option (card, loan, etc.).
Buying the computer with that credit means you can stick $4000 in a high-yield savings account for a while, letting you come up on the plus side of the equation when it's time to pay the bill -- and that's not even considering other "freebies" (such as extended warranty) thrown in by a lot of credit card providers.

It's all about knowing how to best use the tools you have.
 
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