Mac Pro 2019 may not be upgradable again?

mavericks7913

Suspended
Original poster
May 17, 2014
812
281
Many people may wonder how Mac Pro 2019 looks like but I have to assume that Mac Pro 2019 may not be upgradable because of T2 security chip.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/10/04/t2-macs-must-pass-diagnostics-for-certain-repairs/

Although you can still upgrade your parts since T2 security chip is not activated for preventing third-party parts on iMac Pro and MacBook Pro 2018, it might be possible.

I know that upgradability would be great but the existence of T2 security chip is quite bothering.

Any thoughts?
 

tu2thepoo

macrumors member
Nov 14, 2017
70
58
Any thoughts?
This would likely only affect someone trying to swap out physical flash/motherboard components. Nothing in the T2 chip governs whether you can upgrade RAM (see Mac Mini 2018) or even necessarily CPU ( https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac-pro/imac-pro-faq/imac-pro-how-to-upgrade-replace-cpu-processor.html ). The SSD would definitely be non-upgradeable if controlled by T2. If Apple figures out how to securely integrate touchID on a bluetooth keyboard that may be another can of worms.

So repairing may be more expensive - since if you're out of warranty you'll have to go to Apple or an authorized repair shop - but upgrading would not necessarily be so.

But this is all speculation at this point, there's no point getting worked up about it. Every indication from Apple has been that 7,1 will be "modular", so even the most cynical take on that would be designing a Mac Pro that has a billionty Thunderbolt 3 ports for external PCIe enclosures.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThatSandWyrm

aaronhead14

macrumors 6502a
Mar 9, 2009
917
3,927
I think the new Mac Pro will certainly be user upgradeable. Apple will figure it out for us... I hope.
 

AidenShaw

macrumors P6
Feb 8, 2003
18,072
4,139
The Peninsula
I think the new Mac Pro will certainly be user upgradeable. Apple will figure it out for us... I hope.
I think that you have a lot of youthful exuberance. ;)

I think that the new MP7,1 will be a mess of proprietary parts without any user upgradeability. (If it were using standard parts, it would have been shipping for six months already.)

Unless, of course, Apple makes a 180° about-face from what they've be doing the last few years on every product line.
 

joebclash

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2016
192
113
But this is all speculation at this point, there's no point getting worked up about it. Every indication from Apple has been that 7,1 will be "modular", so even the most cynical take on that would be designing a Mac Pro that has a billionty Thunderbolt 3 ports for external PCIe enclosures.
The OP was asking about upgradeability. How are you upgrading RAM or CPU with thunderbolt?
 

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
683
156
This would likely only affect someone trying to swap out physical flash/motherboard components. Nothing in the T2 chip governs whether you can upgrade RAM (see Mac Mini 2018) or even necessarily CPU ( https://everymac.com/systems/apple/imac-pro/imac-pro-faq/imac-pro-how-to-upgrade-replace-cpu-processor.html ). The SSD would definitely be non-upgradeable if controlled by T2. If Apple figures out how to securely integrate touchID on a bluetooth keyboard that may be another can of worms.

So repairing may be more expensive - since if you're out of warranty you'll have to go to Apple or an authorized repair shop - but upgrading would not necessarily be so.

But this is all speculation at this point, there's no point getting worked up about it. Every indication from Apple has been that 7,1 will be "modular", so even the most cynical take on that would be designing a Mac Pro that has a billionty Thunderbolt 3 ports for external PCIe enclosures.
who knows what t3 will have? but if apple wants more the 1 disk then the pci-e x4 will slow it down. also they can lock ram / cpu to the t2 as well where you get stuck in a error 53 like boot screen.
 

trifid

macrumors 68000
May 10, 2011
1,828
4,459
I think it will be upgradable, but like Apple is doing with mac mini, they throw us a bone with so-dimm, but stab us with ridiculous pricing that make you question if it's worth it. So it could be that mac pro is amazing, but it'll probably be more expensive than iMac Pro.
 
  • Like
Reactions: greenmeanie

th0masp

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2015
302
140
germany
I don't think modular in the Apple world means the ability to just plug in standard components from the PC camp (anymore).
How about a unique case that can accommodate a range of CPU and GPU options in a proprietary form factor and all Apple-blessed. Plus a module that allows you to plug in a standard PCI board or two.

It has been done before - e.g. look up the SGI Octane and o2. I fully expect that kind of concept, certainly not the cheesegrater 2.0.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lammers

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
683
156
Sure. All (most) expectations towards the new MacPro collide with Apple's product history since 2012. Lots of Pros already switched. To me the release of the MP 7,1 feels like doomsday for Apple's reputation among Pros. If they don't give us PC level upgradeability, this will be the infamous final nail.
now with if they had an $300-$800 (tX addin card with storage ports) for use in a dell / HP / other system?
 

Game64

macrumors member
Jan 21, 2011
55
16
Las Vegas, NV
You have to look at the curve with Apple. Sometimes they do odd-ball things, but usually you can infer whats coming by looking at the curve. Apple has told us the new Mac Pro will be modular. This means either through thunderbolt or PCIe.

For the Mac Mini we've seen the addition of four thunderbolt 3 ports (unconfirmed if all run at 100%), which allows some interesting eGPU and Expansion Chassis options. Which are expensive. We've also seen Apple add back removable memory and keep the same form factor to appeal to data-centers and users of multiple mac minis.

This is in stark contrast to 2013's Trashcan where Apple went ham and ran counter to almost everything in the market. This tells me Apple is listening to what people have to say and more importantly what professionals have to say.

Apple has told us the new Mac Pro will be modular; We've seen support in newest Mojave for a bunch of new Mac Pro things such as NVME. We've also seen Nvidia's cards able to prompt a boot screen; As well as PC cards running at the proper speeds instead of 2.5.

This to me tells me that the new Mac Pro will have PCIe Slots. It also tells me that the new Mac Pro will be inline with the market desires.
 

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
683
156
You have to look at the curve with Apple. Sometimes they do odd-ball things, but usually you can infer whats coming by looking at the curve. Apple has told us the new Mac Pro will be modular. This means either through thunderbolt or PCIe.

For the Mac Mini we've seen the addition of four thunderbolt 3 ports (unconfirmed if all run at 100%), which allows some interesting eGPU and Expansion Chassis options. Which are expensive. We've also seen Apple add back removable memory and keep the same form factor to appeal to data-centers and users of multiple mac minis.

This is in stark contrast to 2013's Trashcan where Apple went ham and ran counter to almost everything in the market. This tells me Apple is listening to what people have to say and more importantly what professionals have to say.

Apple has told us the new Mac Pro will be modular; We've seen support in newest Mojave for a bunch of new Mac Pro things such as NVME. We've also seen Nvidia's cards able to prompt a boot screen; As well as PC cards running at the proper speeds instead of 2.5.

This to me tells me that the new Mac Pro will have PCIe Slots. It also tells me that the new Mac Pro will be inline with the market desires.
the mini may have 2 TB buses. but are they on cpu or pch pci-e?
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,263
6,250
Any thoughts?
Here is the direct quote from Phil Schiller (bold is mine), from Apple's Mac Pro mea culpa press get together:

We’re not going to get into exactly what stage we’re in, just that we told the team to take the time to do something really great. To do something that can be supported for a long time with customers with updates and upgrades throughout the years. We’ll take the time it takes to do that. The current Mac Pro, as we’ve said a few times, was constrained thermally and it restricted our ability to upgrade it. And for that, we’re sorry to disappoint customers who wanted that, and we’ve asked the team to go and re-architect and design something great for the future that those Mac Pro customers who want more expandability, more upgradability in the future. It’ll meet more of those needs.​

Apple rarely apologizes, much less uses an entire press event to apologize. So my interpretation is that they wouldn't have done this unless they were serious about that mistake. Phil expressly mentioned expandability and upgradability as issues, and that they would fix them in the next iteration.
  • So when people say that there won't be expandability or upgradability, I think they are incorrect because this is contrary to Phil's direct quote. I suppose it's possible, but it would be straight up lying on Phil's part.
  • When people say that there will be expandability or upgradability, but it will just be via Thunderbolt, I think they are incorrect as well. The 2013 already had that, and the whole point of this press event was to indicate change from that mistake.
Now that being said, it doesn't guarantee that expandability or upgradability will come via industry standards like PCIe slots, MXM sockets, SATA connectors, DDR slots, M.2 slots, 2.5/3.5/5.25 drive bays, or whatever. They mention "modular" Mac pro, which is very open to interpretation. It might be an ongoing stream of updated Apple custom modules and boards, similar to the nMP's GPUs--that way Apple could support expansions and upgrades, while still retaining complete hardware control and capturing ongoing revenue.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Boil

mikas

macrumors regular
Sep 14, 2017
193
72
Finland
Ok. I've got me started with my first proper summer holiday in smthng like 5 years - a hole freaking week, allmost.

If there were 50-100 million Pro users willing to ditch Apple Macs and use HP Z-series, that would be a good amount of income to justify the decision and manouvers. If there were 1-5 million Pro users who would decide to choose to do that kind of above mentioned installation and pay for it, Apple would not care a bit. Maybe even HP would not care.

But then again, that's just money, a small yearly flow of some income to the company's (Apple) flood of cash mountains. It's not gonna be enough. Apple will need it's creative class supporters though, to keep it all coming (the money). It needs and wants it, wheather their customers are programmers, designers, scientists, crazy scientists, activists or pure artists. Or maybe it's me and you. We don't do our jobs only with iPads, do we?

After all, Apple is greedier than ever, don't you think. Is that stupid fact gonna be our savior?

btw: I need a promise my Z400 and Z800 still are going to be MacOs compatible, or else..
 
  • Like
Reactions: barmann

Joe The Dragon

macrumors 6502a
Jul 26, 2006
683
156
Ok. I've got me started with my first proper summer holiday in smthng like 5 years - a hole freaking week, allmost.

If there were 50-100 million Pro users willing to ditch Apple Macs and use HP Z-series, that would be a good amount of income to justify the decision and manouvers. If there were 1-5 million Pro users who would decide to choose to do that kind of above mentioned installation and pay for it, Apple would not care a bit. Maybe even HP would not care.

But then again, that's just money, a small yearly flow of some income to the company's (Apple) flood of cash mountains. It's not gonna be enough. Apple will need it's creative class supporters though, to keep it all coming (the money). It needs and wants it, wheather their customers are programmers, designers, scientists, crazy scientists, activists or pure artists. Or maybe it's me and you. We don't do our jobs only with iPads, do we?

After all, Apple is greedier than ever, don't you think. Is that stupid fact gonna be our savior?

btw: I need a promise my Z400 and Z800 still are going to be MacOs compatible, or else..
apple is stuck on thin and that it getting in the way of high end sytems.

the imac pro needed down clocked cpus and had to give up an ram door.
mac pro 2013 stuck with no way to put higher end parts in without marking it bigger
older mac pro stuck in the old g5 case that really needed to be that big just to keep them cool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ssgbryan

th0masp

macrumors 6502
Mar 16, 2015
302
140
germany
Are they even still competing with the PC - as in trying to win users over? For years now it seems to me that they have been leaning back, riding on the success of their mobile devices and brand name recognition. Both in terms of device design and pricing they are a far cry from the competitive products I remember up to around the year 2012.

Around 2010 I recall even speccing out a cheesegrater to use exclusively as a Windows machine. It looked to be the better choice than the Thinkstations, Dell's and HP's I compared it to. Only driver support for Bootcamp held me back from going down that route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Synchro3

fireedo

macrumors regular
Jun 9, 2011
116
37
Indonesia
Using cMP design, free access for upgradeabilty, with newest hardware that will be a very attractive New Mac Pro. I know it will hella expensive machine but at least it will become a real pro machine. I can only dream
 

now i see it

macrumors 601
Jan 2, 2002
4,003
8,005
It'll definitely be upgradeable and expandable.... using Apple parts installed by an Authorized Apple Service Center.
 
  • Like
Reactions: h9826790

CLS727

macrumors regular
Feb 5, 2018
244
368
Upgrade = Buy the new one.

This has been Apple since the first iPhone.

Zero benefit for them to allow people to string along a device forever with little bits and pieces.
 

startergo

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2018
1,129
418
Here is the direct quote from Phil Schiller (bold is mine), from Apple's Mac Pro mea culpa press get together:

We’re not going to get into exactly what stage we’re in, just that we told the team to take the time to do something really great. To do something that can be supported for a long time with customers with updates and upgrades throughout the years. We’ll take the time it takes to do that. The current Mac Pro, as we’ve said a few times, was constrained thermally and it restricted our ability to upgrade it. And for that, we’re sorry to disappoint customers who wanted that, and we’ve asked the team to go and re-architect and design something great for the future that those Mac Pro customers who want more expandability, more upgradability in the future. It’ll meet more of those needs.​

Apple rarely apologizes, much less uses an entire press event to apologize. So my interpretation is that they wouldn't have done this unless they were serious about that mistake. Phil expressly mentioned expandability and upgradability as issues, and that they would fix them in the next iteration.
  • So when people say that there won't be expandability or upgradability, I think they are incorrect because this is contrary to Phil's direct quote. I suppose it's possible, but it would be straight up lying on Phil's part.
  • When people say that there will be expandability or upgradability, but it will just be via Thunderbolt, I think they are incorrect as well. The 2013 already had that, and the whole point of this press event was to indicate change from that mistake.
Now that being said, it doesn't guarantee that expandability or upgradability will come via industry standards like PCIe slots, MXM sockets, SATA connectors, DDR slots, M.2 slots, 2.5/3.5/5.25 drive bays, or whatever. They mention "modular" Mac pro, which is very open to interpretation. It might be an ongoing stream of updated Apple custom modules and boards, similar to the nMP's GPUs--that way Apple could support expansions and upgrades, while still retaining complete hardware control and capturing ongoing revenue.
Judging by the new Mac mini pro's design those words don't jive with the reality. Mac mini's "internal" design (for Apple software engineers) has all the parts socketed, whereas the mini's for the end users are "not customizable" again according to Apple. In fact, all but the RAM is soldered to the logic board. This is contrary to the "expandability, more upgradability" statement.