Mac Pro 3.1 and SSD...

[tigerintank]

Hi Cactusface - something that might be worth confirming is that iirc the 2 optical sata ports will only support macos boot and so won't support windows.

i have my 3.1 booting from an intel ssd on one of those ports, but sometime back i had a windows install in one of the 4 bays.

i think i read at the time that was the only way for windows to boot.

 

[Tucom]

I don't get why people are suggesting you use the ODD slots or ANY other slot other than the sled connections.

I use an OWC blue aluminum 2.5 to 3.5 adapter. Beautifully constructed bit of kit, all solid aluminum with and excellent finish. Sure it doesn't matter AS much when the cover is put back on and you can't see it, but it's nice to know that there's something well made doing the task.


Very affordable - http://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MMP35T25/

Half off, too.

WOOPS - SORRY - Totally forgot that this drive sled is NOT compatible with 3,1 Mac Pros. In the case there are other just as useable and affordable sled adapters that will work all the same. I think OWC carries a NewerTech one that adapts to the stock sled itself.

 

[tigerintank]

Speaking for myself (OP may be different) i need more than 4 drives in the MP 3.1 and since SSDs are very robust and can effectively be put anywhere, i've not bother with a physical mount.

Mine currently sits on top of the optical drive with no problems to date. Is there a fingers crossed smiley?!

 

[Tucom]

Speaking for myself (OP may be different) i need more than 4 drives in the MP 3.1 and since SSDs are very robust and can effectively be put anywhere, i've not bother with a physical mount.

Mine currently sits on top of the optical drive with no problems to date. Is there a fingers crossed smiley?!

Yeah at that point I'd just get an external setup, but sure if you want it all self contained that's a valid reason.

 

[Cactusface]

Hi All,

@Snipper, A temp sensor makes perfect sence. No I too had no intention of running the Mac without the fans, just overlooked it, good job that first boot was'ent any longer!!
If the CPU's get very hot, would they slow the whole system down, to try and keep things cool?? As for mounting the SDD's! I had ordered the caddies before I learnt about the hidden SATA headers..

@tigerintank, Thanks for the info but that's just what I intend to do, OSX on the SDD on the top floor and win-7/64 in slot-1, so are you saying that should be OK? and I still have 3 slots to fill...

Regards

Mel.

 

[snipper]

case modding

There's not much reason for a mount, other then appearance. The SSD is sturdy enough. It only uses a few Watt so there's no risk of overheating either. Any optical drive also uses very little power. But hey. If you like the bling bling, knock yourselves out. I once pimped my Mac Pro out with green CCFL.

----------

If the CPU's get very hot, would they slow the whole system down, to try and keep things cool??

The system then tries to stay cool by making the fans go faster. It probably doesn't anticipate for you forgetting to put it back in… but this type of machines usually does have other 'checks'. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but for example, the Mac Pro G5 would rev up all fans to the max if you'd start it up without the transparent side cover.

I don't think it will slow the rest down but it might slow the processors down. It will probably just shut itself down if it really get too hot.

 

[nigelbb]

I don't get why people are suggesting you use the ODD slots or ANY other slot other than the sled connections.

Using a drive sled or one of the SATA sockets on the motherboard will throttle the SSD at SATA-II performance. Mounting the SSD on a PCI card like the Apricom Velocity Duo will give much better I/O performance.

 

[tigerintank]

@tigerintank, Thanks for the info but that's just what I intend to do, OSX on the SDD on the top floor and win-7/64 in slot-1, so are you saying that should be OK? and I still have 3 slots to fill...

Regards

Mel.

Yes as far as I remember., thats exactly what I did. But it's been a while since i booted windows though, so may be best to get some input from more experienced users.

Also I think theres a way to enable those 2 ports for windows, but when i looked into it, it seemed way too complex so i didn't investigate further. Again more experienced users can confirm/deny this!

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Using a drive sled or one of the SATA sockets on the motherboard will throttle the SSD at SATA-II performance. Mounting the SSD on a PCI card like the Apricom Velocity Duo will give much better I/O performance.

IMHO The best post in this thread! In my MP 3.1 the DUO x2 was the best upgrade for both an OSX 10.10.x SSD and a Windows 8 Pro SSD. Both Samsung 840 EVO.

A no brainer solution with a great performance boost!!!

Forget the spaghetti in your MP 3.1 and as @nigelbb stated the SSD is wasted by a SATA-II connection.

Rethink your possibilities!

Cheers

 

[Cactusface]

Hi All,

@ nigelbb, Well for me cost, I don't have the odd £80 to spare! This SSD is already booting faster then my PC's SSD, but I suppose there's nothing strange or new about that!!

@snipper, Yes like the bling lighting, did it on a PC years ago, would'nt bother now! I just like things tidy! must be the OCD in me.

Regards

Mel.

 

[snipper]

IMHO The best post in this thread!

Forget the spaghetti in your MP 3.1 and as @nigelbb stated the SSD is wasted by a SATA-II connection.

Rethink your possibilities!

It's worth to know, but I think it was already mentioned a few pages back. Also, it's relatively costly compared to the cost of the SSD. I recently bought a 120 GB Kingston SSDNow for € 60 / $ 65. A Velocity Duo x2 (think that you mean that one?) would cost another € 140 / $ 150, tripling the total.

If money is not an object, one might as well buy the latest model Mac Pro, but a lot of people who come to this thread are not able or just not willing to do that. Personally, I could afford a new machine, but why would I retire a perfectly functioning Mac Pro 2008? Sure, it's 2015 now and Yosemite makes it slower and therefore I put in the SSD. I put in a better video card so I can use a 4K UHD screen, but a fitting used card can be had for just € 75.

- - -

It an exaggeration to say the SSD is wasted without a dedicated controller, since it's still several times faster than a regular hard drive. It's even a lot faster than a striped RAID0 of three 'magnetic' hard drives! I would have a hard time keeping the SSD and the striped RAID apart in a 'real world situation' blind test, so for me, it's not worth the money.

In the case of @Cactuface, I'd certainly first spend my money on a SDRAM update, before even considering a SSD controller.

 

[nigelbb]

It an exaggeration to say the SSD is wasted without a dedicated controller, since it's still several times faster than a regular hard drive. It's even a lot faster than a striped RAID0 of three 'magnetic' hard drives! I would have a hard time keeping the SSD and the striped RAID apart in a 'real world situation' blind test, so for me, it's not worth the money.

Nobody except you suggested that an SSD is wasted without a dedicated controller but it's just so much better with one.

Modern 7200rpm disks will do about 150MB/s. An SSD in a sled will max out at about 225MB/s whereas if you connect it to an Apricom Velocity then it will do over 500MB/s.

The Apricom Velocity Solo costs £44.99.

----------

In the case of @Cactuface, I'd certainly first spend my money on a SDRAM update, before even considering a SSD controller.

I do agree with this. He has 8GB of 800MHz FB-DIMMs. I suggest replacing that with at least 16GB of 667MHz parts which are far cheaper as used pulls from Xeon servers than Apple 800MHz parts & not noticeably slower in real life.

 

[snipper]

Nobody except you suggested that an SSD is wasted without a dedicated controller but it's just so much better with one.

There's a little misunderstanding. I was referring to the remark in the sticky thread Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards where someone said this, because I thought we were in that thread. That's why I said 'a few pages back'.

--- About the SSD controller

Modern 7200rpm disks will do about 150MB/s. An SSD in a sled will max out at about 225MB/s whereas if you connect it to an Apricom Velocity then it will do over 500MB/s.

The Apricom Velocity Solo costs £44.99.

I'll do you one better. OK, let's say I work with really, really big files a lot and I want all the speed I can get.

My 120 GB Kingston SSDNow in a sled, or on a SATA II connector as I have it here, reads about 225 MB/s, like you said, but I want it faster. Now, I could buy an SSD controller for £45, which is about € 62 today, to make it twice as fast. It makes my drive twice as expensive, but hey, you want speed or you don't.

Or I could buy another of the afore mentioned 120 GB SSD's (just under € 60 at the moment) and use the two SSD's as as set in a RAID0. I'd have twice the speed, practically the same speed as I would have with a controller, around 450 MB/s and have twice the disk space.

This would be a more interesting investment, since I'm working with huge files a lot and those tend to fill up my hard drives. (The more I think about it, the more interesting this plan gets)

 

[IowaLynn]

There's a little misunderstanding. I was referring to the remark in the sticky thread Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards where someone said this, because I thought we were in that thread. That's why I said 'a few pages back'.

--- About the SSD controller

I'll do you one better. OK, let's say I work with really, really big files a lot and I want all the speed I can get.

My 120 GB Kingston SSDNow in a sled, or on a SATA II connector as I have it here, reads about 225 MB/s, like you said, but I want it faster. Now, I could buy an SSD controller for £45, which is about € 62 today, to make it twice as fast. It makes my drive twice as expensive, but hey, you want speed or you don't.

Or I could buy another of the afore mentioned 120 GB SSD's (just under € 60 at the moment) and use the two SSD's as as set in a RAID0. I'd have twice the speed, practically the same speed as I would have with a controller, around 450 MB/s and have twice the disk space.

This would be a more interesting investment, since I'm working with huge files a lot and those tend to fill up my hard drives. (The more I think about it, the more interesting this plan gets)

The SATA II drive bays and two SSDs in RAID? On a very tight budget so that other options are not in the ballpark... SSDs have shown that those SATA II drive bays have a single controller and hit a wall with two SSDs back when they were much slower than today.

A single SSD on an adapter would be my vote.

Using two as JBOD may be just as good.

At one point a week or two ago the EVO 850 250GB was $US99 (is now $109 unless there is an April 1 sale going on!)

I don't know enough about some of the adapters (cheap $9 Sintech and such) that use M.2 or mSATA devices and offer SATA III as well.

The ideal in my mind is Apple Samsung 256GB blade $US259(?) on ebay with one of the $9 adapters and 1500MB/sec. Even the 128GB.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

It's worth to know, but I think it was already mentioned a few pages back. Also, it's relatively costly compared to the cost of the SSD. I recently bought a 120 GB Kingston SSDNow for € 60 / $ 65. A Velocity Duo x2 (think that you mean that one?) would cost another € 140 / $ 150, tripling the total.



If money is not an object, one might as well buy the latest model Mac Pro, but a lot of people who come to this thread are not able or just not willing to do that. Personally, I could afford a new machine, but why would I retire a perfectly functioning Mac Pro 2008? Sure, it's 2015 now and Yosemite makes it slower and therefore I put in the SSD. I put in a better video card so I can use a 4K UHD screen, but a fitting used card can be had for just € 75.



- - -



It an exaggeration to say the SSD is wasted without a dedicated controller, since it's still several times faster than a regular hard drive. It's even a lot faster than a striped RAID0 of three 'magnetic' hard drives! I would have a hard time keeping the SSD and the striped RAID apart in a 'real world situation' blind test, so for me, it's not worth the money.



In the case of @Cactuface, I'd certainly first spend my money on a SDRAM update, before even considering a SSD controller.

Money is ALWAYS a subject, also in my real life! I see all SSD adapters bought today more like a bad investment into the future. Because the development of the SSD are going to fast for me.

When I knew then what I know now, I would have bought the $ 9 adapter with an Apple 1TB blade (x2) , but what the cMP concerns, choises made today will always be outdated into the near future. But I can deal with it.

Making a choise now and be happy with it, is all that counts to me. If you want the state-of-the-art upgrades, just never buy one. The best fail safe option to never spend money on (old) technology, that will be outdated the next morning you wake up.

I'm still happy with the choises I made, but I agree that it will never ever be the cheapest, let alone the most newest tech within the next 24 hours! ;-)

Cheers and enjoy your upgrades.

 

[Cactusface]

that sensor is for temperature monitoring.

Speaking of which… I really wouldn't dare using the Mac without the fan case! Not when I wouldn't know for how long anyway.

Hi m4v3r1ck,
A heat sensor! well that makes sense? No I wouldn't recommend running it without the fans turning, just an oversight.

well I now have my caddies, not sure now that that was the best way to go!! but one sits upstairs under the CD drive with OSX on it, the other in the first slot with Win 7/64, that is a bit sluggish??

Going to get 16Gb of that ex-server ram, take the CD drive out the PC and add that, it's got to be faster and it's SATA, not that I use it much. I need to make a cable from the spare graphics power socket to Molex power for the USB-3 card installed, as it uses the sata power on the 4th slot.

Any ideas folks... All welcome.

Regards

Mel.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

Hi m4v3r1ck,
A heat sensor! well that makes sense? No I wouldn't recommend running it without the fans turning, just an oversight.

well I now have my caddies, not sure now that that was the best way to go!! but one sits upstairs under the CD drive with OSX on it, the other in the first slot with Win 7/64, that is a bit sluggish??

Going to get 16Gb of that ex-server ram, take the CD drive out the PC and add that, it's got to be faster and it's SATA, not that I use it much. I need to make a cable from the spare graphics power socket to Molex power for the USB-3 card installed, as it uses the sata power on the 4th slot.

Any ideas folks... All welcome.

Regards

Mel.

Was this quote ment for me? 😀

Cheers

 

[snipper]

Just curious: Do you use USB memory sticks a lot? Or is it for external HD's? I never bothered to upgrade it since I practically only use it for keyboard and Wacom. For iPhone sync'ing it's not worth it either, since my iPhone5 is only USB 2.

 

[Cactusface]

Hi m4v3r1ck,
Sorry no it not yours, it's for the chap below. But I must have picked out something you said... then forgot it (it's my age?) See if I can get the next bit right.

@Snipper, The USB-3 card was in the machine when I got it (very resent) so might as well have it working...

Regards

Mel.

 

[snipper]

… but one sits upstairs under the CD drive with OSX on it, the other in the first slot with Win 7/64, that is a bit sluggish??
…
Any ideas folks... All welcome.

Eh... I managed to get Windows 8.1 on my MBP via bootcamp and I once had a HD disk with Windows on it for in the Mac Pro, but I accidentally deleted it. If you ask me for advise about Windows installations, I can't help you, I avoid it as much as possible. 😀

 

[xxK3ANxx]

SATA speeds from PCIe

As I was writing this post, I think I answered my own question. I'll leave the original text below, but it just occurred to me... I put an mSATA SDD in a PCIe slot. I'm getting SATA speeds because of the type of SSD I put in. In other words, it's mSATA and will inherently be slower. Yeah?


EDIT 2:
I believe I've identified the bottleneck. The OWC adapter I bought is PCIe Rev 2 x1. It's only rated up to 325 Mbs.

Original post:

Hey all, I've been slowly upgrading my Mac pro 3.1 quad core for awhile now. (graphics card, USB 3.0) Yesterday I upgraded to an SSD. I went the PCIe route because it seemed to be the smarter/faster performance option based on what I read here. The speed bump is nice, but it's only performing at a SATA speed level. (See speed test image below). I'm new enough at this, that I don't understand why. I've installed it into PCI slot one, which I understand to be the fastest PCI slot at Rev. 2 x16.

Any thoughts as to why the slower than expected speed? Thanks in advance y'all.

Hardware:
PCI Slot 1
OWC 0GB Murcury Accelsior m PCI Express adapter
Crucial MX200 250GB mSATA

PCI Slot 3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 4096 MB

PCI Slot 4
ORICO Mac USB3.0 PCI Express Card for Mac10.8.2