Mac Pro 3.1 / Tempo SSD Card / possible Speed issues?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by tobiasvdp, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. tobiasvdp macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    #1
    Dear all,

    i´m not sure wether I might have performance issue with a Sonnet Tempo SSD Pro card. After installation i get max 600 mb/sec read / write, tested with Blackmagic Speedtest. The system is:

    Mac Pro Early 2008, System 10.8.2
    Tempo SSD Pro installed in the Top Slot (4)
    2x 128 GB Samsung 830
    Formatted as Raid 0 / 256K Blocksize
    Link Speed is shown as x2.

    When trying to run it in Slot 2 i again only get x2 Link speed. Is there any possibility to force the Mac Pro to negotiate a faster link connection? Expansion slot utility does not work on my machine....

    Cheers

    Tobias
     
  2. Tesselator, Mar 2, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013

    Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

    Joined:
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    Japan
    #2
    If this ( http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2838?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US ) is set up right for your card and it still only establishes a 2x lane configuration then short of hacking the card there is nothing you can do.

    For optimum SSD performance any/every card should be asking for 3x PCIe lanes per connected SSD in a PCIe v1.x system, and 2X PCIe lanes per connected SSD drive in PCIe v2.x. For systems with PCI version 3 and higher it should be OK to allow 2 SSD drives to access through a 2x lane configuration.

    If you're only getting 600MB/s from 2SSDs in RAID0 on 2X Lanes then you probably have PCIe version 2 and the 2X lanes are capping your speeds. Assuming typically fast SSD drives you should be getting 700MB/s to 800MB/s in most benchmark suites. But do try a different benchmarker - from what I understand BlackMagic tests encoded and decoded data streams to produce a somewhat more real-world-ish result.





    BTW, just for reference;
    mb or Mb means megabits

    mB or MB means megabytes.

    :)
     
  3. Giuly, Mar 2, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2013

    Giuly macrumors 68040

    Giuly

    #3
    The Sonnet Tempo itself is x2, PCIe 2.0.
    On PCIe 1.0, one lane is 250MB/s full-duplex, on PCIe 2.0 it's 500MB/s.

    Install it in Slot 1 or 2.

    If you want a x4 card, you need the Sonnet Tempo SSD Pro.
     
  4. Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #4
    No, it's 2.5GT/s and that works out to 200MB/s of user data (max throughput) - not 250MB/s. 2X lanes would be 400MB/s and PCIe v2.x single lane is also 400MB/s. Many SSDs can easily achieve 500MB/s of user data. Two in a RAID0 can achieve around 900MB/s or a little more.

    You're right about the solution of course... He needs a faster card. ;)
     
  5. Giuly macrumors 68040

    Giuly

    #5
    Rereading the first post, the card is fine, and according to the speeds, it has to be x4, as Slots 3 and 4 are only PCIe revision 1.

    So, switching the slot 1 and 2 to x8 and installing it in one of those should solve this and result in ~960MB/s. The impact on the graphics performance is rather negligible, and the cooling shouldn't be affected either.
     
  6. tobiasvdp thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    #6
    Thanks a lot for your answers, it seems as if i still have some sort of an issue with this mac:

    a) In Slot 1 or 2 the speed is as low as in slot 3 or 4

    b) the expansion slot utility does not work with the early 2008

    attached are some screenshots from the machine, i´m not sure f the 830s are capable of more - is there any terminal voodoo that could try setting the card to x4?

    Cheers

    Tobias
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Tesselator, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013

    Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #7
    A closer look:

    Gully's last post didn't make any sense to me - he was probably tired (or I'm too tired to understand it ;)). AFAIK there is no way to have mixed versions of PCIe slots. In your machine they are all PCIe Version 2.x slots. The Tempo SSD Pro is a PCI Express Version 2.0 x4-lane card.
    • PCIe v2 _ x1-lane = 5GT/s (400MB/s Data throughput MAX!) (Each Direction)
    • PCIe v2 _ x2-lane = 10GT/s (800MB/s Data throughput MAX!) (Each Direction)
    • PCIe v2 _ x4-lane = 20GT/s (1.6GB/s Data throughput MAX!) (Each Direction)
    • PCIe v2 _ x8-lane = 40GT/s (3.2GB/s Data throughput MAX!) (Each Direction)
    • PCIe v2 _ x16-lane = 80GT/s (6.4GB/s Data throughput MAX!) (Each Direction)
    And it's impossible to ever achieve more than the Max values listed there AFAIK.

    You should always get a x4 link speed with one "Tempo SSD Pro" card in slot4 - no matter how you configure your expansion slots - because all 4 possible expansion slot configurations have slot 4 set to x4 or higher (as shown in the image below).

    As far as number of lanes and link speed goes I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what PCIe version it is either. A x4 card in a x16 slot will be x4 regardless of version - given a x4 type card (of any version!).

    With two SSDs on a x4-lane PCIe 2.0 connection you should get the maximum throughput those drives are capable of. Which in RAID0 should very close to 1GB/s - when testing files over about 1MB in size.

    Are you running the latest firmware?

    What does the "Expansion Slot Utility" list your card as? This thing:



    [​IMG]


    If all that checks out and still the slowness persists then I would RMA the card (or the drives?) back for a replacement.


    .
     
  8. nigelbb macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    #8
    As already noted in the link to the Apple support document about PCI Express slots, In the 2008 Mac Pro 3,1 the two 16X slots (1&2) are Rev 2.0 & the two 4X slots (3&4) are Rev 1
     
  9. Tesselator macrumors 601

    Tesselator

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    #9
    Wow, how totally confusing. How is that even possible... LOL

    Thanks for the clarification... (Wow, just wow.)
     
  10. nigelbb macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    #10
    The fact that Tobias sees the same performance in the 4X Revision 1 slot a in the 16X Revision 2 slot indicates that PCIe bus is not the bottleneck.
     
  11. jasonsansone macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    #11
    Did anyone ever resolve this issue? I am having the same problem. Early 2008 MacPro, Tempo SSD Pro in Slot 2. That slot is x16 pcie 2 but the link shows as x2 pcie 2. This is the same as original poster showed. Tried all sorts of things without resolution.
     
  12. flowrider, Aug 16, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013

    flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    Nov 23, 2012
    #12
    The Expansion Utility only works with 1,1 and 2,1 Macs (2006 and 2007 Models) only. The OP has a 3,1 (2008 Mac Pro)

    On the 3,1 the bottom two slots are 16 Lane, PCIe revision 2. The top two slots are 4 Lane, PCIe Revision 1.

    All lane widths are fixed on later Mac Pros and not adjustable as they are on the 2006 and 2007 machines.

    Lou
     
  13. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2012
    #13
    The Tempo Pro SSD is a two lane card, so no matter how many lanes in the slot it's installed in, it will remain a 2 lane card. But, on a 3,1 Mac, it should be in Slot 2, because it's a PCIe Revision 2 slot that will allow the card to run at 6GBs per second. The upper two slots are Revision 1 and will not allow full speed operation of the card.

    From Sonnets web site:

    PCI Express 2.0 x2 host bus interface and 6 Gb/s SATA controller for high-performance applications

    Lot's of bad advice given here:eek:

    Lou
     
  14. m4v3r1ck macrumors 68020

    m4v3r1ck

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    #14
    Any special reason you choose the 256K blocksize for the RAID0?

    Cheers
     
  15. jnaiser60 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2013
    #15
    Early mac 2008 Dual Quad core

    How do you know which firmware selection to select?
    When I run the updater, after the "yes" selection, I am asked to pick between 3 chooses? I have the pro card with two Samsung SSD. One 1 tb as my OS and a second as a scratch disc. I am in slot three and am running very slow.
     
  16. m4v3r1ck macrumors 68020

    m4v3r1ck

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    #16
    If on Mac Pro 3.1 you should move your Tempo Pro to slot #2!
     
  17. didier.ma, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014

    didier.ma macrumors newbie

    didier.ma

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  18. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    Hong Kong
    #18
    x2 is the spec for Tempo SSD. The Tempo SSD Pro is a x4 card.

    Screen Shot 2014-05-08 at 14.08.13.png Screen Shot 2014-05-08 at 14.08.23.png
     
  19. didier.ma macrumors newbie

    didier.ma

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    May 5, 2014
    #19
    It sounds strange but the manual for both Tempo SSD and Tempo SSD Pro state that it must be install on Slot 3 or 4.

    Maybe there is some sort of limitation?
     

    Attached Files:

  20. h9826790, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014

    h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    #20
    Yes, however, the slot 1 and 2 in the 2008 model are PCIe 2.0 x 16, slot 3 and 4 are only PCIe x 4 (NOT 2.0 x 4), which means only slot 1 or 2 is good for the card.

    I just want to point out that the manual is the official information, but they are not always right.

    According to the manual, my card should be bootable out from the box (Revision B card), but it wasn't. I have to re-flash the firmware to make it work.

    ----------

    I don't know, but may be worth a try just to put it into slot 2 and see how it works.

    However, the 1st question in my mind is that do he really using the Tempo SSD Pro card? Or it is a Tempo SSD card.
     
  21. didier.ma macrumors newbie

    didier.ma

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    May 5, 2014
    #21
    I am planning to get a Tempo Pro for my Mac Pro as both slot 1 and 2 are occupied. I am planning to use just one SSD and on the website, it's the only card that can deliver 500MB/s speed on PCIe 1.1. Do you think it will work?
     
  22. h9826790 macrumors 604

    h9826790

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    Hong Kong
    #22
    According to the website info. Yes.

    My own point of view. Personally I think that's not a very effective way to use the Tempo SSD Pro card. The card itself it quite expensive, even more expensive than most of SSDs. If I get this card. I will definitely go for 2 SSDs and RAID them together. Just to squeeze as much as possible from this card.
     
  23. Buddy53 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    #23
    Do I use eSATA off Tempo Pro or internal drives?

    Thanks for the great info on this forum.

    I have an early 2008 MacPro 3,1. with a 2.8ghz. processor
    I am just receiving my Tempo Pro from B&H today.

    - I will take my 840 Samsung 250gb card out of the bay and raid-0 it with an identical card, just purchased.
    - I have 2 internal HD's, 3tb Seagate Raid0'd for my video editing files. These drives are rated 6gb/s, but as I understand.. the 4 bay drives will bottleneck the transfer to 3gb/s. Yes?

    I was looking at another card... HighPoint 4-Port SATA III PCIe 2.0 x4 RAID Host Adapter. B&H # HIRS63RC. Thinking I could connect all 4 internal bays to achieve 6gb/s transfer rate. However, since my Radeon 5770 is in slot 1, and the Tempo Pro will be in slot 2, that leaves slots 3 and 4, and they are 1.0 rather than 2.0 slots.

    Questions:
    - Would the 1.0 slot make the purchase of the Highpoint card useless?
    - Since the The Tempo Pro has 2 eSATA line out connections. Would I do well to purchase an external drive bay, i.e. OWC Mercury Elite Pro Qx2 RAID Solution, B&H # OWCM3QX2K0GB? Would this give an increased speed where I would achieve 6gb/s?
    - I asked this question to a B&H rep. He checked with another rep who said there could well be a diminished capacity using the eSATA out jacks with everything running off this card. So it might not necessarily be better. He even advised to not buy the Tempo card for the older mac and said most of my increase would come from just buying the second SSD and raid-0ing them in the upper bays. I bought the Tempo anyway.

    In summary, my concern is for the bottleneck effect. If I'm paying 3 large ones for the card. I want the 6gb/s. The Highpoint card looked like a good idea...... but I think the 1.0 kills it.

    Plus... is there a limit to what my 2.8ghz processor can do?

    Please suggest the most efficient configuration.
    Thanks again to all!
     
  24. wildatheart macrumors member

    wildatheart

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    #25
    So , just to recap - like the OP, the Link Width for my Tempo Pro Plus is showing as x2 (Link Speed 5.0GT/s). It is in Slot 2; should I be seeing a Link Width of x4?

    Mac Pro 3,1
    10.10.2
     

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