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Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
Hey,
I just installed High Sierra 10.13 via usb-drive on my mac pro 4.1 early 2009 patched to 5.1.
As i don't have a second mac i used a windows made bootstick to have a plain new system.
Everything worked fine, so i build in a new cpu: xeon W3680. Also worked fine.

After that i wanted to go for updates. The mac restarted and updated. At somepoint it restarted or just crushed, i dont know, as i wasn't watching it all the time.

Now the mac won't show boot screen or play the chimes.No video signal at all.
But SSD makes some noise, fans runing etc.

I tried it with the old cpu, but it didn't worked out.
Also all posible Shortcuts like entering the recovery mode wont work, or opening the dvd drive.( PRAM reset etc. )
Removing the battery from main board didn't work out.
Northbridge is rock solid and clean.
The test lights all seem normal beside the EFI DONE and GPU OKAY lights didn't stay lit. Only 1second after powering up.
Looks like the power supply or the mainboard broke... But that would be a big coincidence. Is it possible that the update had an error? Any advice what to do?
Can i use a Corsair TW650w to check if its becouse of the power supply?

Thanks for your time
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,801
8,002
New Hampshire, USA
Hey,
I just installed High Sierra 10.13 via usb-drive on my mac pro 4.1 early 2009 patched to 5.1.
As i don't have a second mac i used a windows made bootstick to have a plain new system.
Everything worked fine, so i build in a new cpu: xeon W3680. Also worked fine.

After that i wanted to go for updates. The mac restarted and updated. At somepoint it restarted or just crushed, i dont know, as i wasn't watching it all the time.

Now the mac won't show boot screen or play the chimes.No video signal at all.
But SSD makes some noise, fans runing etc.

I tried it with the old cpu, but it didn't worked out.
Also all posible Shortcuts like entering the recovery mode wont work, or opening the dvd drive.( PRAM reset etc. )
Removing the battery from main board didn't work out.
Northbridge is rock solid and clean.
The test lights all seem normal beside the EFI DONE and GPU OKAY lights didn't stay lit. Only 1second after powering up.
Looks like the power supply or the mainboard broke... But that would be a big coincidence. Is it possible that the update had an error? Any advice what to do?
Can i use a Corsair TW650w to check if its becouse of the power supply?

Thanks for your time

Sounds like the Boot ROM on the mainboard is corrupted (I had similar symptoms)

If it is your Boot ROM, you might have to either get a Matt Card from CMIZapper or a new mainboard.
 
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MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
685
Japan
Morris_Morris

Could be that you need to adjust the CPU heatsink tensioning again.

Did you use a lidded or de-lidded W3680 ?

Replacing a CPU in a 4,1 can easily become a nightmare.
 

Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
Hey Plutonius, thanks for the tip. I will think about it.
Is there any way to be shure about the Boot ROM failure?

MIKX,
i used a lidded one. I Carefully tightened the screws of the heatsink crosswise until they stopped.
No more pressure applied on them.
Also the system was running for 10 minutes and also showing up the correct Cpu in the harware manager.
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,801
8,002
New Hampshire, USA
Hey Plutonius, thanks for the tip. I will think about it.
Is there any way to be shure about the Boot ROM failure?

All as I know is that I had the exact same symptoms and it was a corrupted BootROM :(.

The EFI DONE and GPU OKAY LEDs flashed on for a second before going out.

The front power light came on, the fans turned, and my drives made some noise.

My wired USB mouse and wired USB keyboard were not being powered.

In my case, I corrupted my boot ROM on both a Mac Pro 4,1 and a Mac Pro 5,1 while doing updates.

I realized after the 5,1 died that it was because I manually rebooted during updating because I thought it was hung (white screen for a long time). I now don't touch it and wait for the updates to finish even if it looks like it hung.

My 4,1 is still dead but for the 5,1 I inserted a Matt card on the main board. People here on MacRumors reconstructed my BootROM code and I was able to load it into the Matt card (note - the Mac Pro will work with the Matt card as it is but will not be able to use the Apple services (iTunes, etc.)).

Here is my original thread.
 

Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
Sh*t, that sounds very close to my problem...
Yes it was black screen and thought it has hung after updating.
But complete black screen.
What apple services will not work? Like App-Store and everything?
That would be annoying.
Some advice who to ask about the matt card codes?
Maybe its more sensefull to just sell it as a donator for other people on the forum or so...
Some berlin based helper maybe?
 

Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,801
8,002
New Hampshire, USA
Sh*t, that sounds very close to my problem...
Yes it was black screen and thought it has hung after updating.
But complete black screen.
What apple services will not work? Like App-Store and everything?
That would be annoying.
Some advice who to ask about the matt card codes?
Maybe its more sensefull to just sell it as a donator for other people on the forum or so...
Some berlin based helper maybe?

From what people told me, it's Apple services which most likely include the App store.

In one case, mine was also a complete black screen.

Here is the CMIZapper website.

I found the people there to be very helpful with my questions on the Matt card.

They are in Europe though so their response might be delayed if you are in the US.

The Matt cards work but they are not cheap (that's why I didn't bother getting one for my 4,1). It also just needs to plug into your mainboard.

If you feel comfortable with soldering and working with electronics, you could always pull the main board, remove the BootROM flash, and reprogram it on an external programmer. That assumes that you can find someone who has the knowledge and is willing to reconstruct your BootROM code.

The first thing I would recommend doing if you want to get your computer back is to start a thread indicating that your BootROM is corrupted and ask if anyone is around to help you out. Specify that is a 2009 MacPro 4,1 that had been patched to show 5,1.
 

tsialex

macrumors G4
Jun 13, 2016
11,639
12,106
Sh*t, that sounds very close to my problem...
Yes it was black screen and thought it has hung after updating.
But complete black screen.
What apple services will not work? Like App-Store and everything?
That would be annoying.
Some advice who to ask about the matt card codes?
Maybe its more sensefull to just sell it as a donator for other people on the forum or so...
Some berlin based helper maybe?
A matt card is a SPI flash replacement and works, a backplane with a corrupted BootROM will boot again.

The problem, like I explained in the other thread to @Plutonius, is that cmizapper send it with the first ever Mac Pro BootROM MP51.007F.B00, this BootROM only works up to Sierra and since all matt cards are clones from a Mac, you can't access any Apple services that depends on hardwareIDs identification/validation like iCloud/iMessage/FaceTime/iTunesStore/MacAppStore. Read my posts and you will understand.

The current MP5,1 BootROM is 144.0.0.0.0, a dozen revisions from MP51.007F.B00.

Usually, a replacement MP4,1 backplane is cheaper than a matt card.
 

orph

macrumors 68000
Dec 12, 2005
1,884
393
UK
hi Morris_Morris, can you give a bit more info
you have a 4,1 with
what GPU is it?

you say
'SSD makes some noise' ? are you sure it's a SSD and not a HD?
SSD's do not make sound so something may be wrong.
it may be a bad drive or the cable is loose

can you try pulling all HD's/SSD's, put in your USB boot drive and try booting to see what happens ?
if you have a native mac GPU hold 'alt' on boot to see if the drive pop's up

the GPU, if it has extra power cables can you check there pluged in

can you try a difrent display cable?

it may be boot room but it also may be a bunch of stuff to
 
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Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
Hey, its the original GForce GT 120 im using. No extra cable. Well not sure if that noise coming from ssd was maybe from the DVD Drive. I tried it today without a harddrive but with boot usb. Dind't work at all.
The display cable is working on another machine, so that also doesn't work out.
Is there any cheaper source to buy the mainboard than this? Do i have to pay attention to something or are 4.1 backplanes all the same?
Is it possible to check for psu issues with a Corsair TW650w?
 
Last edited:

tsialex

macrumors G4
Jun 13, 2016
11,639
12,106
Do i have to pay attention to something or are 4.1 backplanes all the same?
All 2009 backplanes are the same. Don't buy a 2010/2012, will make the fans work 100% of time at 100% RPM.
Is it possible to check for psu issues with a Corsair TW650w?
Mac Pro backplane is not ATX and you can't connect a PC PSU.
 

MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
685
Japan
MIKX,
i used a lidded one. I Carefully tightened the screws of the heatsink crosswise until they stopped.
No more pressure applied on them.
Also the system was running for 10 minutes and also showing up the correct Cpu in the harware manager.
Did you put washers in to compensate for using a lidded CPU ? The cpu "LID" adds to the overall height and affects tensioning. If you did that you also have to make certain that the Tdiode cable is correctly connected - most people cut that cable's retaining clip.

It's worth Googling " Mac Pro CPU upgrade " again to be sure.
 

Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
As far as i now, i don't need washers on the single cpu? There was also a lidded cpu inside, so...
I will check the cable
 

MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
685
Japan
2009 4.1 Mac Pros came with UN-LIDDED CPUs.

The 2010 ~ 5.1 cMPs had LIDDED CPUs and had a CPU spring clamp to auto-tension the CPU.

Google "2009 4.1 CPU upgrade"
 
Last edited:

tsialex

macrumors G4
Jun 13, 2016
11,639
12,106
2009 4.1 Mac Pros came with UN-LIDDED CPUs.

The 2010 ~ 5.1 cMPs had LIDDED CPUs and had a CPU spring clamp to auto-tension the CPU.

Google "2009 4.1 CPU upgrade"
This is totally incorrect, MP4,1 single CPU tray use standard lidded Xeons. Only the dual CPU tray MP4,1 use de-lidded Xeons.
[automerge]1570500740[/automerge]
As far as i now, i don't need washers on the single cpu? There was also a lidded cpu inside, so...
Yes, you are correct.
 

MIKX

macrumors 68000
Dec 16, 2004
1,815
685
Japan
Seeing that the OP does not have a Macrumors signature how was anyone to know he has a single CPU 4,1 ?

I am correct regarding the DUAL CPU 2009 4,1

However I will EDIT post #14 to say "DUAL CPU"

Will that make you happy?
 

tsialex

macrumors G4
Jun 13, 2016
11,639
12,106
Seeing that the OP does not have a Macrumors signature how was anyone to know he has a single CPU 4,1 ?

I am correct regarding the DUAL CPU 2009 4,1

However I will EDIT post #14 to say "DUAL CPU"

Will that make you happy?
Did you even read post #13?

As far as i now, i don't need washers on the single cpu? There was also a lidded cpu inside, so...
I will check the cable
 

Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
I installed a new motherboard and its working again.
I don't know how, becouse the old motherboard was "patched" to 5.1.
The new motherboard should have been a 4.1.
I'm also running the orignal 2.66ghz quad core.
The hardware manager also says its a 5.1.
Should i reinstall everything?
 

tsialex

macrumors G4
Jun 13, 2016
11,639
12,106
I installed a new motherboard and its working again.
I don't know how, becouse the old motherboard was "patched" to 5.1.
The new motherboard should have been a 4.1.
I'm also running the orignal 2.66ghz quad core.
The hardware manager also says its a 5.1.
Should i reinstall everything?

Open SystemReport>Hardware>SMC version (system), if it shows 1.39f5, you have a correct MP4,1 backplane already updated to MP5,1 firmware. If it's 1.39f11, you bought a real MP5,1 backplane and you will have to exchange it.

SMC versions for both the backplane and processor tray must match.
 

Morris_Morris

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Oct 3, 2019
9
0
Yes it seems to be a 139f5 patched to 5.1.
Thanks so much alex, Your really the sh*t! I don't know how to thank you, but i'll bet you getting tons of carma:)
 
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