derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Hi everyone,

I have a problem as soon as I power up my apogee ensemble firewire. There is a high pitched noise coming from the motherboard of my 5.1. strange thing is this occurs only in sierra but not in snow leopard. Tried different machines, wall sockets, cables etc... anyone has an idea for a solution? Thanks
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
Is anything connected to the Apogee (aside from FW & power)? Are they using the same circuit? Are you using a UPS? Do you have the UPS connected to the 5,1? Anything else on the circuit that is in use?

It could be a grounding issue. Have noticed occasional digital interference style noise on a mixing console at times with a MacPro5,1 is connected. Only using for multiple sources to same speakers/monitors. Replacing TRS cables did help.
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
I disconnected everything from the apogee. Connected the apogee to a different computer in a different room, same result. Can't really say if it's a different circuit though, the wall socket were on opposite sides of the wall.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
Assume that means no UPS or line conditioner?

Used to do a lot of audio work in an old building and we basically had to run line conditioners (Furman) with most audio gear because the power was dirty. You're never going to get 100% constant 120V in/out on standard US outlets, but when it's lower or higher there are sometimes issues. May be completely unrelated, but it sounds like something I ran into with a Digi002 years ago that took forever to figure out. Most UPS battery backup units do line conditioning of some kind, but Pure Sine (of some variety) is the thing these days that usually helps the most.

If you have a ground lift (power version, not audio version) like a HumX, you could try using that temporarily to test.

Any chance the Apogee has firmware updates available?
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Assume that means no UPS or line conditioner?

Used to do a lot of audio work in an old building and we basically had to run line conditioners (Furman) with most audio gear because the power was dirty. You're never going to get 100% constant 120V in/out on standard US outlets, but when it's lower or higher there are sometimes issues. May be completely unrelated, but it sounds like something I ran into with a Digi002 years ago that took forever to figure out. Most UPS battery backup units do line conditioning of some kind, but Pure Sine (of some variety) is the thing these days that usually helps the most.

If you have a ground lift (power version, not audio version) like a HumX, you could try using that temporarily to test.

Any chance the Apogee has firmware updates available?
Thanks for the reply, no there's no power conditioner. I'm running the latest firmware and updates, like I said the weird thing is that snow leopard doesn't have this issue. I talked to apogee, they have no idea what the problem might be. I'm gonna give the humx a try, if not I'm going back to El Capitan or snow leopard
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
It very well could be a FireWire power supply issue or bug caused by macOS/OSX - that would not shock me. Seems like everyone's on USB3 and Thunderbolt these days and doubt FW is being tested/troubleshooted in beta as reguarly as it probably could/should be. Believe the MacPro is the last of the Apple devices with built-in FW that is not EOL'd yet (that does not require a TB > FW adapter).

Do you have any other FW devices you can try? Even external hard drives with their own power supply just to see if it's isolated to the Apogee or if it's across all FW devices.

Curious if you connect optical out of the MacPro5,1 into the Apogee if there are still any issues, or if your word clock can be looped into the MacPro at all (if you're using an external generator).
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
There's another user on this forum that seems to have a problem with this configuration, although it seems to work for most people. In 10.6.3 Apple introduced an audio update to fix a similar issue. Unfortunately I don't have another fw device. What i noticed is, when I checked if the noise is coming from a hard drive , I pulled the hard drives, and the noise was interrupted, but it came back after a few seconds.
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
So looks like i was able to fix the issue by copying the kext files that came with audio update 1.1 into the system library
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
thanks for updating! does look like it's a power issue bug

from https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202052
Follow these steps to determine if the update has already been applied:
Choose About this Mac from the Apple () menu.
Click More Info... to open System Profiler.
In the Software section of System Profiler, select Extensions.
If the update has been successfully installed, AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement version 104.3.1 should be listed as an extension.

linking in case it's helpful for future use:
https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1042
http://support.apple.com/downloads/DL1042/en_US/MacProAudioUpdate1.1.dmg
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
thanks for updating! does look like it's a power issue bug

from https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202052
Follow these steps to determine if the update has already been applied:
Choose About this Mac from the Apple () menu.
Click More Info... to open System Profiler.
In the Software section of System Profiler, select Extensions.
If the update has been successfully installed, AppleIntelCPUPowerManagement version 104.3.1 should be listed as an extension.

linking in case it's helpful for future use:
https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1042
http://support.apple.com/downloads/DL1042/en_US/MacProAudioUpdate1.1.dmg

I extracted the files with pacifist, it's not possible to install the update beyond 10.6.3 . To me it looks like for some reason they didn't include this files in newer os versions. Atm I'm figuring out which kext is missing in sierra to add it to the library.
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
Have you filed a bug report with Apple? Sounds like they need a v1.2 audio update if simply copying kext files fixes this. Info from my 5,1 if it's helpful for comparison.

Screen Shot 2018-02-26 at 12.55.34 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-26 at 12.57.49 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-26 at 12.56.46 PM.png
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Thanks, so this worked on a 4.1 but not on a 5.1. I filled a bug report with apple, but unless a lot of people have this issue they probably won't investitigate this
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Yes i tried this on 2 different 8 core machines. Updated 4.1 with sierra and a regular 5.1. both had this issue. The kext workaround only worked on the 4.1.
After sierra was running fine with the snow leopard kext files, I wanted to know which is fixing this problem. So i added the sierra files one by one and restarted each time. Interestingly the 4.1 is now running with all original sierra kext files. No old kext needed
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
The kext file responsible for this problem is IOPlattformPluginFamily.kext . I used KextDrop to install the working Snow Leopard kext to Sierra, noise is gone and so far the system is stable
 

bsbeamer

macrumors 601
Sep 19, 2012
4,012
2,118
Here's the two that show on my 5,1. Wonder if there's a way to force FW devices to use the legacy driver?

Screen Shot 2018-02-28 at 8.23.49 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-02-28 at 8.24.03 AM.png
 

jantoman

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2014
39
3
Italy
Hi. I have a setup that's almost similar to yours: Mac Pro 5,1, Apogee Duet (original FW) and OS 10.11.6. I don't hear any high pitched noise, but there are some other issues with FW and I'd like to ask your opinion about it.

1 - is it normal that FW devices - in my case the Duet and a 2'5" hd - are still powered after the Mac is turned off? Is there a hidden setting or a firmware update to fix that? My old MP 1,1 didn't behave like that...
2 - the computer doesn't turn on if the FW 2,5" hd is plugged on: when I push the power button I hear a click but no green LED and no startup sound. Seems like something in the PS is failing and there isn't enough power through the FW bus. Every time it happens I need to unplug the power cord, disconnect the device and plug the power back again to get back to business.
3 - sometimes there are conflicts between different clock frequency settings: System tries to stick to 44.100 even if the DAW is set to 48.000. As a result, the Duet gets confused and the audio is heavily distorted: I need to change manually the clock setting, but it means reloading the whole DAW project as well (and with three or four fully loaded VI samplers it takes quite a lot of time).
Thanks in advance for your help.
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Hi. I have a setup that's almost similar to yours: Mac Pro 5,1, Apogee Duet (original FW) and OS 10.11.6. I don't hear any high pitched noise, but there are some other issues with FW and I'd like to ask your opinion about it.

1 - is it normal that FW devices - in my case the Duet and a 2'5" hd - are still powered after the Mac is turned off? Is there a hidden setting or a firmware update to fix that? My old MP 1,1 didn't behave like that...
2 - the computer doesn't turn on if the FW 2,5" hd is plugged on: when I push the power button I hear a click but no green LED and no startup sound. Seems like something in the PS is failing and there isn't enough power through the FW bus. Every time it happens I need to unplug the power cord, disconnect the device and plug the power back again to get back to business.
3 - sometimes there are conflicts between different clock frequency settings: System tries to stick to 44.100 even if the DAW is set to 48.000. As a result, the Duet gets confused and the audio is heavily distorted: I need to change manually the clock setting, but it means reloading the whole DAW project as well (and with three or four fully loaded VI samplers it takes quite a lot of time).
Thanks in advance for your help.

I'm sorry, but I can't answer that. The ensemble has a power button and I never connected a Duet. It sounds strange indeed, maybe there's a flaw with the fw 400 to 800 adapter. Did you check the power settings in Mac Os?
 

jantoman

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2014
39
3
Italy
FW hard disks are always powered too, not just the Duet. They are connected with FW800 cables, while the Duet is connected to the FW400 plug in the rear. No adapters, and unfortunately no power switches on the devices...
Did you check the power settings in Mac Os?
Do you mean Energy Savings in System Preferences?
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
Do you mean Energy Savings in System Preferences?[/QUOTE]

Yes. The only thing that comes to my mind that you could try is a different OS if you have one nearby.
 

jantoman

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2014
39
3
Italy
I have three OS on three different disks: El Capitan on the main SSD, High Sierra on a "test drive" HD and Snow Leopard on the former 320 HD. I'll try booting from each disk to see if something changes, but I believe it's definitely a hardware-related issue.
[doublepost=1532270830][/doublepost]By the way, if I restart the machine with both FW devices connected (Duet and 2,5" HD) it boots without a glitch, confirming my guess that something's going wrong in the PS. It works when it's already up and running, but when it's switched off and asked to start up with full power... it fails.
 

jantoman

macrumors member
Mar 2, 2014
39
3
Italy
Hmmm... it could be. I'll try to connect the devices to my old Mac Pro 1,1 and see what happens.
 

frizzastyle

macrumors newbie
Aug 15, 2008
6
0
Germany
I hate to revive this ancient thread, but I've been having the same issue here. 4.1 flashed to 5.1 running Mojave. I've tried installing the IOPlattformPluginFamily.kext included in the audio update using Kext Wizard, but it refuses to load/notarise, resulting in big CPU heating problems until the Mojave kext is reloaded. Derb Ryan, are you still on Sierra, or have you somehow managed to keep the issue at bay with a newer macOS?
 

derb ryan

macrumors member
Original poster
Apr 1, 2014
32
0
Germany
I hate to revive this ancient thread, but I've been having the same issue here. 4.1 flashed to 5.1 running Mojave. I've tried installing the IOPlattformPluginFamily.kext included in the audio update using Kext Wizard, but it refuses to load/notarise, resulting in big CPU heating problems until the Mojave kext is reloaded. Derb Ryan, are you still on Sierra, or have you somehow managed to keep the issue at bay with a newer macOS?
Sorry for the late reply, I just read it. I switched to a 6.1 shortly after. I never used Mojave on a 4.1 or 5.1
 
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