MP 1,1-5,1 Mac Pro 5.1 Mojave Slow startup

[Monoploid]

Hey guys, I’m new to the Forum so thanks for all the valuable input that helped me upgrade my Mac Pro to Mojave just recently.

I just did a clean install of Mojave’s on a new NVMe PCIe SSD.I was excepting a considerable boost in overall system speed but what I got instead is a system taking up to 5 minutes to show the login screen.

I’ve tried PRAM and SMC resets but it hasn’t helped. Does anybody have a clue what could be causing this ? The Disk Speed is fine but I wish the system would start up faster. Could the issue be that the ssd is being shown as an external drive ?

fyi: the NVMe ssd is currently the only drive installed and I removed any unnecessary extension cards like usb3 etc.

Looking forward to your ideas

 

[h9826790]

Hey guys, I’m new to the Forum so thanks for all the valuable input that helped me upgrade my Mac Pro to Mojave just recently.

I just did a clean install of Mojave’s on a new NVMe PCIe SSD.I was excepting a considerable boost in overall system speed but what I got instead is a system taking up to 5 minutes to show the login screen.

I’ve tried PRAM and SMC resets but it hasn’t helped. Does anybody have a clue what could be causing this ? The Disk Speed is fine but I wish the system would start up faster. Could the issue be that the ssd is being shown as an external drive ?

fyi: the NVMe ssd is currently the only drive installed and I removed any unnecessary extension cards like usb3 etc.

Looking forward to your ideas

It seems you hit the "APFS + TRIM = Slow boot" bug. No solution yet.

You may try

1) Clone your current boot drive to another hard drive (e.g. by using CarbonCopyCloner)

2) Reformat your NVMe to HFS+

3) Clone the boot partition back onto the NVMe

If this give you fast boot, then you hit that bug.

If not, then something else is wrong.

 

[Monoploid]

Thanks for your reply!

What are the downsides to just using the drive in HFS+ then?

 

[MIKX]

Monoploid

None.

I've been running under HFS+ SSDs since Sierra. Now in Mojave 10.14.6

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for your reply!

What are the downsides to just using the drive in HFS+ then?

For Mojave, OS update won't show up in system preference.
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Monoploid

None.

I've been running under HFS+ SSDs since Sierra. Now in Mojave 10.14.6

Just wonder did you use Combo updater to update the OS?

Or simply update the backup drive, then clone beck to the NVMe.

 

[Monoploid]

@h9826790

I tried booting from a bootable usb media with only the empty nvme installed but i couldn’t get it to boot from the usb drive. I then put the system hdd back in , ran the installer and chose the nvme as the Installation destination. Worked fine ...

Background: I ran into some issues when I first updated from high Sierra to Mojave with several ssds and hdds as well as other extension cards installed ... was dealing with lags and the OS getting stuck. Hence I figured it might be related to the drives or maybe extension cards. That’s why I chose to use only one main nvme ssd to eliminate possible interference etc ...

 

[Eschers]

Here we go, same problem here since 3 weeks! Kind of weird living with these 5min boottimes, but anyway, some information:

One of my cpus presumably died, swapped around, did AHT and stuff, error was shown at one CPU.. This was noticeable indeed as some ram slots would randomly fail in the first slot.

however, fiddled around and put back old quadcore cpus that I luckily still had and then still no signs.. LED diagnose was never showing second GPU light as good then I always shut it down after 2-3 minutes until I forgot about it and after 10 minutes I came back and the login screen was shown! I did a restart immediately and stopped time and got as well around 5min EVERY COLD BOOT!

When selecting USB-Installer stick as startup volume from within macOS it takes 15minutes!!!! so it takes almost an hour to diasable SIP for example which is insane!

symptoms i noticed before all of this happened:

• handoff and continuity and watch unlock all of a sudden were not working. some RAM were not recognized.

I found that it hangs on some BT stuff before the loginwindowserver appears. Whatever device it is that may is causing the harm it did not before certainly.

Same behaviour when only 1 macOS SSD and 2 RAMs inserted. Even with original GT 120 I manage to get to the login window after 5min. weird!

next thing I will do is the Apple Software Diagnostics and let you know!

 

[tsialex]

Here we go, same problem here since 3 weeks! Kind of weird living with these 5min boottimes, but anyway, some information:

One of my cpus presumably died, swapped around, did AHT and stuff, error was shown at one CPU.. This was noticeable indeed as some ram slots would randomly fail in the first slot.

however, fiddled around and put back old quadcore cpus that I luckily still had and then still no signs.. LED diagnose was never showing second GPU light as good then I always shut it down after 2-3 minutes until I forgot about it and after 10 minutes I came back and the login screen was shown! I did a restart immediately and stopped time and got as well around 5min EVERY COLD BOOT!

When selecting USB-Installer stick as startup volume from within macOS it takes 15minutes!!!! so it takes almost an hour to diasable SIP for example which is insane!

symptoms i noticed before all of this happened:

• handoff and continuity and watch unlock all of a sudden were not working. some RAM were not recognized.

I found that it hangs on some BT stuff before the loginwindowserver appears. Whatever device it is that may is causing the harm it did not before certainly.

Same behaviour when only 1 macOS SSD and 2 RAMs inserted. Even with original GT 120 I manage to get to the login window after 5min. weird!

next thing I will do is the Apple Software Diagnostics and let you know!

Disconnect the USB cable from the BT module, this way you disable it, check if keeps taking 5".

 

[bsbeamer]

Sometimes a BT receiver for mouse or other peripheral will also fix this issue. Don’t know if it’s a disable or priority/stacking fix. Can also try to disable kexts if you’re still running into issues.

Also try creating a clean user account. Sometimes this is a user account boot issue with specific user account (if using auto login).

 

[MIKX]

Just did some bootup time tests. COLD BOOT WINS

Mac OS : Mojave 10.14.6

Build : 18G1012 ( build number changed from 18G103 to 18G1012 after the
2019-001 security update. )

Install type : Full. clean install + 2019-001 Security Update.

Drive : SanDisk Z410 480gb

Drive format : APFS

=====================================

COLD BOOT

First Chime = 25 seconds

To Login screen = 43 seconds

WARM BOOT

First Chime = 30 seconds

To Login screen = 53 seconds

=======================================

THE WINNER

COLD BOOT to Mojave 10.14.6
Build 18G1012
Login screen at 43 seconds​

====================================

NOTE :

I will be CCC cloning this Mojave 10.14.6 Build 18G10112 installation to a 500gb Samsung 970 Pro M.2 formatted to HFS+ in a week or so.
I'll do another bootup test then and post results to this thread.

From prior experience M.2 PCIe NVME bootups are slower.

 

[Eschers]

Sometimes a BT receiver for mouse or other peripheral will also fix this issue. Don’t know if it’s a disable or priority/stacking fix. Can also try to disable kexts if you’re still running into issues.

Also try creating a clean user account. Sometimes this is a user account boot issue with specific user account (if using auto login).

It is actually a fresh install of newest mojave, but apfs.

Disconnect the USB cable from the BT module, this way you disable it, check if keeps taking 5".

Will try that this afternoon

Just did some bootup time tests. COLD BOOT WINS

Mac OS : Mojave 10.14.6

Build : 18G1012 ( build number changed from 18G103 to 18G1012 after the
2019-001 security update. )

Install type : Full. clean install + 2019-001 Security Update.

Drive : SanDisk Z410 480gb

Drive format : APFS

=====================================

COLD BOOT

First Chime = 25 seconds

To Login screen = 43 seconds

WARM BOOT

First Chime = 30 seconds

To Login screen = 53 seconds

=======================================

THE WINNER

COLD BOOT to Mojave 10.14.6
Build 18G1012
Login screen at 43 seconds​

View attachment 876345

====================================

NOTE :

I will be CCC cloning this Mojave 10.14.6 Build 18G10112 installation to a 500gb Samsung 970 Pro M.2 formatted to HFS+ in a week or so.
I'll do another bootup test then and post results to this thread.

From prior experience M.2 PCIe NVME bootups are slower.

so this comes down to apfs and hfs+? my best time was always 1min and 30sec, maybe because of the 128GB Ram installed

 

[Eschers]

Disconnect the USB cable from the BT module, this way you disable it, check if keeps taking 5".

still 5", disconnected the BT-usb.

really strange the whole thing

 

[MIKX]

In my case I prefer HFS+ due to it's proven track record.

I consider Sierra, High Sierra and Mojave etc. as being " new and separate Mac OSs and as such, 1 always wait for the very last OS release + it's first Security Update before downloading the FULL installers and doing FULL - CLEAN installations.

Additionally, I now always do TWO full clean installs - keeping one in Apple's designated APFS format and after a week of heavy testing then CCC clone the original install to an HFS+ formatted 970 EVO or Pro M.2 SSD which I test and if satisfied begin to do NEW installs of my often used 3rd. person Apps.

To date the above regimen has obviated any issues whatsoever.

I now cringe at the thought of using Combos to update.

Running a FULL - CLEAN ( Mojave for example ) install to a separate SSD with absolutely NO 3rd. party Apps for a week or so will soon reveal any Apple created issues.

A search of the Mojave thread yields many Mojave 10.14.6 complaints from users, most of whom I suspect used Combos all the way from 10.14.0.

They can't be bothered to buy a ( now so cheap ) spare 128gb SSD to do a FULL & FINAL 10.14.6 install to test it for issues. I have little sympathy for them and their inability to use the Macrumors Search function nor not having the foresight of creating a Macrumors cMP SIGNATURE and so relieving knowledgeable cMP owning members of the drudgery of forever having to ask " How is your cMP setup ? "

Amen.

 

[Eschers]

In my case I prefer HFS+ due to it's proven track record.

I consider Sierra, High Sierra and Mojave etc. as being " new and separate Mac OSs and as such, 1 always wait for the very last OS release + it's first Security Update before downloading the FULL installers and doing FULL - CLEAN installations.

Additionally, I now always do TWO full clean installs - keeping one in Apple's designated APFS format and after a week of heavy testing then CCC clone the original install to an HFS+ formatted 970 EVO or Pro M.2 SSD which I test and if satisfied begin to do NEW installs of my often used 3rd. person Apps.

To date the above regimen has obviated any issues whatsoever.

I now cringe at the thought of using Combos to update.

Running a FULL - CLEAN ( Mojave for example ) install to a separate SSD with absolutely NO 3rd. party Apps for a week or so will soon reveal any Apple created issues.

A search of the Mojave thread yields many Mojave 10.14.6 complaints from users, most of whom I suspect used Combos all the way from 10.14.0.

They can't be bothered to buy a ( now so cheap ) spare 128gb SSD to do a FULL & FINAL 10.14.6 install to test it for issues. I have little sympathy for them and their inability to use the Macrumors Search function nor not having the foresight of creating a Macrumors cMP SIGNATURE and so relieving knowledgeable cMP owning members of the drudgery of forever having to ask " How is your cMP setup ? "

Amen.

very reasonable approach indeed!

still no changes here..I will try and do a bootrom dump

 

[h9826790]

It is actually a fresh install of newest mojave, but apfs.



Will try that this afternoon

so this comes down to apfs and hfs+? my best time was always 1min and 30sec, maybe because of the 128GB Ram installed

It’s very normal that 128GB RAM need 30s to POST. The more RAM you have, the longer it takes to finish the self test.

 

[MIKX]

. . . just for a test . . . remove all RAM except the 2 X 16 gb modules - time the cold boot startup for 32gb
RAM.
Do TWO cold starts - do THREE consecutive NVRAM / PRAM re-sets =hold the keys down until you hear the CHIME three times.

Shut down again and time the next cold boot with 32gb RAM - time THIS cold boot.

 

[Eschers]

. . . just for a test . . . remove all RAM except the 2 X 16 gb modules - time the cold boot startup for 32gb
RAM.
Do TWO cold starts - do THREE consecutive NVRAM / PRAM re-sets =hold the keys down until you hear the CHIME three times.

Shut down again and time the next cold boot with 32gb RAM - time THIS cold boot.

Still the same, maybe 10-15 secs less..even did it from a USB-mojave installer in terminal (nvram -c)

UPDATE:

Managed to get it to under 2min with a Catalina install on a SSD in the Mac Pro internal SATA port + the no compat check argument.

The m.2 drive is a Samsung 970 pro with a decent heatsink and no other drive in 3rd and 4th slot so air circulation and cooling is good, gets to 45-50 Celsius when updating! when its booted up it runs 1500MB/s read and write, no errors whatsoever..

has apple messed up something with the latest Mojave updates or is the drive indeed bad?