Actually, all Geforce 7xxx are the same generation. The Geforce 7300 just happens to be the lowest performing graphic card in the Geforce 7 series.
The only new generation graphic card from nVIDIA are the Geforce 8 series.
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Mac Pro as a main Windows gaming machine?
- Thread starter St. Germain
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Actually, all Geforce 7xxx are the same generation. The Geforce 7300 just happens to be the lowest performing graphic card in the Geforce 7 series.
The only new generation graphic card from nVIDIA are the Geforce 8 series.
The Quadro FX4500 and X2 are basically in the same generation. The only new card is the Geforce FX5500.
The 7300 is also a low power card 32W, so you can stuff 4 of them in the machine at the same time (which required having sub 40W cards.)
And Apple needed that for the 4x 7300 configurations, where FPS isn't as important as the ability to have a low watt configuration option that can drive 8 displays at once.
Card for PowerMac
I have a PowerMac G5 2500 dual and it uses an AGP card. I just got a 30" monitor and needed a card to support it. I went to Frys, and they had about 10 AGP cards ($150 or so) -- but of course none will work in my PowerMac. For some reason, no one has any of the cards that will work in stock -- they're back ordered to March (or, I suspect, more). So I managed to buy a card on eBay for $250 -- which I could have gotten for about $180 if it had been in stock anywhere. It all works now, and the PM is still a fine machine, but I think having to buy a proprietary card cost me at least $100. This is not something that makes people love Macs or want to buy them. It is pretty depressing to read that the new Mac Pros have the same issue.
I have a PowerMac G5 2500 dual and it uses an AGP card. I just got a 30" monitor and needed a card to support it. I went to Frys, and they had about 10 AGP cards ($150 or so) -- but of course none will work in my PowerMac. For some reason, no one has any of the cards that will work in stock -- they're back ordered to March (or, I suspect, more). So I managed to buy a card on eBay for $250 -- which I could have gotten for about $180 if it had been in stock anywhere. It all works now, and the PM is still a fine machine, but I think having to buy a proprietary card cost me at least $100. This is not something that makes people love Macs or want to buy them. It is pretty depressing to read that the new Mac Pros have the same issue.
Excellent point.
On second thought the Apple compatible Video Cards are sufficient enough especially when you consider how well they work on the games already for Mac OSX. I run "WOW" on the stock Video Card in a Power Mac G5 from a few years ago. It runs like butter and everything looks like great. I'm sure the new Aleinware's/Falcon NW's will look a bit better but I ask by how much to the visible eye. So for now maybe just sticking to what is available to Apple users is more than enough instead of shelling out even bigger bucks every 4 months for a marginal difference. However, if Apple did want to dig deeper into the video game market allowing more PC only games onto the Mac then the latest video cards might become more viable. So I guess it's a bit of a Catch-22.
-aneks, RMD68
You both make great points. I'd like to add a third to the whole video card discussion, and that is, sure, the cards in the Mac Pro may be downlevel, but they're no slouches, and more that enough for most - even with Mac Pros.
That being said, and this is my point, LAGS (Latest And Greatest Syndrome) is a sad and debilitating affliction, and those with the most amazing video cards will suffer from it. So at least we're spared that
You both make great points. I'd like to add a third to the whole video card discussion, and that is, sure, the cards in the Mac Pro may be downlevel, but they're no slouches, and more that enough for most - even with Mac Pros.
That being said, and this is my point, LAGS (Latest And Greatest Syndrome) is a sad and debilitating affliction, and those with the most amazing video cards will suffer from it. So at least we're spared that
-combatcolin
Dude, you're minimum standards are higher than most.
There not, honest!
I bought an iMac a month after they 1st came out, knocking it back a bit now, but i loved it at the time.
I bought a 4MB VRAM upgrade and got a free 64MB DIMM, meaning i had triple the normal VRAM and triple the normal RAM.
However, after a year i wanted to buy Unreal, but i didn't have enough RAM.
It was then that i realised just how quickly my Mac had aged and how massively limited i was upgrade wise.
I do regret buying my iMac, looking back i should have bought a G3 desktop- same price but didn't have a monitor BUT really expandable.
Since then i have always made a point of owning a computer that can grow with me - i almost bought a G5 but couldn't justify the cost what with running a house, bills etc.
I would dearly love to return to the Mac, but until the fabled consumer tower comes out i'm sticking with my powerful, expandable PC, and having fun with Windows on a semi-regular basis.
LAGS can apply to Mac users as well....only the latest and greatest for Macs (when it comes to video cards at least) isn't as late or great as those for the PC's. So some Mac users try to rationalize this deficiency in some way or another.....
Haha, yeah with purchasing iPODS with miniscule changes. For instance the iPOD (PRODUCT) RED I know its partially for a cause but still I think it serves my point.
-psingh01
Y'r telling me - when that octo-core hits, I'll suffer it...
... but just this once - I swear!
Let's assume for a moment that Apple have a reason for offering a very small of graphics cards, because they have been doing so for a long while now. In such a case you will not see the highest end, newest cards in a workstation. Not only do they tend to cost significantly more in comparrison to performance but there will also be unknown issues relating to them. The two upgrades they offer are two of the best performing cards on the market for their respective tasks and more than enough for the majority of users.
Yes it isn't ideal for heavy gamers, yes it isn't ideal for those who would benefit from dual cards (X2s), but Apple aren't likely to pander to such small markets. If the customers were there, then I believe so would the cards. Sure companies can miss opportunities and be stuck up their own asses, but I find it unlikely in this case.
Don't do it.....
I purchased a Macpro thinking it would be good enough for gaming. It was fine until I got flight sim X which battered my X1900XT to death! Im in the middle of selling my Macpro and building a PC for gaming. Ill probably get a Mac laptop at some point in the future. Its a shame I couldnt get a machine that does both, to the levels I expect.
Itll cause you more trouble than its worth, just get a low end mac and build a gaming pc.
I purchased a Macpro thinking it would be good enough for gaming. It was fine until I got flight sim X which battered my X1900XT to death! Im in the middle of selling my Macpro and building a PC for gaming. Ill probably get a Mac laptop at some point in the future. Its a shame I couldnt get a machine that does both, to the levels I expect.
Itll cause you more trouble than its worth, just get a low end mac and build a gaming pc.
From what I've heard Flight Simulator X puts any graphics card through its paces, especially if you want to play at a high resolution.
Wow,
Again In this thread I hear such arrogant mac user stereotypes as "Mac Pros are for people who make a living through their computer"
Or even more stereotypical
"Not worth it unless you do photography or video editing"
<yawn>
That sort of thinking is usually what comes out of the mouths of people who never have touched a mac, or used os9 in school years ago.
I do photography with my mac pro, but not as a career, I use OSX because it's 100% better than XP, and that trend can only continue against the trainwreck of an os that is vista for the average consumer.
I bought my Mac Pro to have a kickass OSX system, to support better raid configurations and windows out of the box, to have a great os experience, and because it's freaking fast.
Of course I was looking forward to playing games, having gotten rid of my pc shortly after completing half life 2 on release, but I was tired of the constant upgrading, and was using my powerbook more than my PC for everyday tasks.
Saying the macpro is a poor games machine is nonsense, I have a 20" ACD, and it runs every recent game I've thrown at it fine at native res, including call of juarez, half life 2 episode 1, and it cuts like a knife through butter with older titles such as fear and far cry!
Sure, you can' buy the fastest graphics card for osx yet, but apple have done upgrade paths in the past, and I'm hoping that graphics card manufacturers get onto making dual supported cards in the near future.
If you love OSX, and you're finding your imac restrictive, then shift up to a macpro, you'll love it, and it plays windows games pretty darn cool as well.
The PC gaming scene is dying, think of how many PC releases over the last 12 months have been exclusive....not many, unless you count RTS (which I can't stand).
FPS and nearly every other genre are focused at consoles first, because it's a more profitable market, splinter cell, et al, are focused on 360 and other consoles.
PC version of Ghost recon = teh sux, 360 version = teh win
Rainbow 6 Vegas = Straight port of the 360 version
Fear = out on 360
apart from "OMG HAVE U S33n CRYSIS Vidz" posts on the net, the pc only scene is bleak, and with that pushed back to 2008, I'll be just ready to buy a new macpro, and that'll pwn that badboy as well.
Again In this thread I hear such arrogant mac user stereotypes as "Mac Pros are for people who make a living through their computer"
Or even more stereotypical
"Not worth it unless you do photography or video editing"
<yawn>
That sort of thinking is usually what comes out of the mouths of people who never have touched a mac, or used os9 in school years ago.
I do photography with my mac pro, but not as a career, I use OSX because it's 100% better than XP, and that trend can only continue against the trainwreck of an os that is vista for the average consumer.
I bought my Mac Pro to have a kickass OSX system, to support better raid configurations and windows out of the box, to have a great os experience, and because it's freaking fast.
Of course I was looking forward to playing games, having gotten rid of my pc shortly after completing half life 2 on release, but I was tired of the constant upgrading, and was using my powerbook more than my PC for everyday tasks.
Saying the macpro is a poor games machine is nonsense, I have a 20" ACD, and it runs every recent game I've thrown at it fine at native res, including call of juarez, half life 2 episode 1, and it cuts like a knife through butter with older titles such as fear and far cry!
Sure, you can' buy the fastest graphics card for osx yet, but apple have done upgrade paths in the past, and I'm hoping that graphics card manufacturers get onto making dual supported cards in the near future.
If you love OSX, and you're finding your imac restrictive, then shift up to a macpro, you'll love it, and it plays windows games pretty darn cool as well.
The PC gaming scene is dying, think of how many PC releases over the last 12 months have been exclusive....not many, unless you count RTS (which I can't stand).
FPS and nearly every other genre are focused at consoles first, because it's a more profitable market, splinter cell, et al, are focused on 360 and other consoles.
PC version of Ghost recon = teh sux, 360 version = teh win
Rainbow 6 Vegas = Straight port of the 360 version
Fear = out on 360
apart from "OMG HAVE U S33n CRYSIS Vidz" posts on the net, the pc only scene is bleak, and with that pushed back to 2008, I'll be just ready to buy a new macpro, and that'll pwn that badboy as well.
The point isn't that a Mac Pro isn't good at playing games. It's great. Definitely the fastest Windows machine I've ever used.
It's just not cost-effective if "playing games in Windows" is your PRIMARY GOAL. If that's the case, it's MUCH cheaper to build a Core 2 Duo (Conroe) box with an E6600, OC it a touch, add in cheaper and faster DDR2 that's not fully-buffered, and a better graphics card.
IF, however, your PRIMARY goal is to have a really fast Mac for whatever reasons you choose and you want the ability to some gaming on the side in Windows, then it's a great choice.
It's just not cost-effective if "playing games in Windows" is your PRIMARY GOAL. If that's the case, it's MUCH cheaper to build a Core 2 Duo (Conroe) box with an E6600, OC it a touch, add in cheaper and faster DDR2 that's not fully-buffered, and a better graphics card.
IF, however, your PRIMARY goal is to have a really fast Mac for whatever reasons you choose and you want the ability to some gaming on the side in Windows, then it's a great choice.
Finally, someone else who sees the writing on the wall. People, p.c. gaming is winding to a close. I'll say it again for those who have blinkers on... "P.C. GAMING IS COMING TO AN END"
The next generation of gaming will be console based, aside from a small niche area of games for Mac's or p.c's, the bulk of gaming will be done on consoles. If you cant see this happening already, then you need to look around and see what the Xbox and Wii is doing to the market. There are much bigger efficiencies in coding for one or two platforms than for the p.c. world with all its incongruities.
I think this is my point as well. While I understand why Apple makes the video card choices that it does, and doesn't cater to gamers, as I'm heading into 2007 I would like a graphics card that can do well for 2007 games. That means DirectX 10 games at the end of the year. I don't want to settle for a video card that just does OK for a 2004 game like WoW. Not when I'm paying $3000+.
There are two main reason why the Mac Pro doesn't have a DX10 card:
1) There's only one DX10 card, from NVIDIA. It came out very recently, and the Mac Pro has not been revved since it debuted. It is very expensive.
2) Apple has to write the graphics drivers for the boards they ship, the manufacturers do not help them outside of providing the necessary specs and such. They do not code drivers for OS X. This is also why there are so few aftermarket graphics options for OS XApple has neither the time nor resources to support hardware besides what they ship, and no one else is helping them.
I'd imagine that either we'll see the 8800 as an option in the next Mac Pro, or a card based on ATI's R600 core (DX10 capable) when it hits.
nihilisticmonk, a Mac Pro is £1700 for the average spec.
That is a hell of a lot of money to play WOW.
You may disagree with me but i stand by my (slightly modified for clarity) comment.
The Mac Pro is a computer for people who make money from there computer generated work.
That is a hell of a lot of money to play WOW.
You may disagree with me but i stand by my (slightly modified for clarity) comment.
The Mac Pro is a computer for people who make money from there computer generated work.
I suggest you read the article I have linked below.
http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2005/11/is-pc-gaming-dead-dont-be-silly.html
Oh blah, blah, blah...
The same thing has been said every time a new generation of consoles came out. It's nonsense. Why do people always get carried away with a release of new consoles? In a years time the old balance will be restored and PC games will once again trounce console games, not only in visuals, but in depth for a few years. And then Sony will announce plans for Playstation 4, Microsoft will release details of Xbox 720, some people will get carried away again and announce the death of PC gaming, etc, etc...
The fact is certain games don't play well on PC's, but well on consoles, and vice-versa. Hence there'll always be a market for both.
Agree.
Each has there strengths and weaknesses.
I can remember people saying this in 1989 with the release of the Super Famicom....
... by drawing pretty pictures in well ventilated offices where they baby their computers.