Mac Pro mouse problems

bjar

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 20, 2013
219
82
Sugar land, tx
Info: Mac Pro 5,1, 3.46 ghz, 8 core. 36 gb ram. Nvidia 970 (Not flashed). Upgraded with OSXWIFI + bluetooth 4.0.

Any one else having issues with mouse stutter in 10.12.4? I think after I upgraded that is when it started. It affects both my apple Magic Mouse (old kind) and my Logitech wireless RF mouse. My Magic Trackpad is not affected, which I thought was kind of weird. At first I thought it was maybe my USB 3.0 card so I removed it, still stutters. And I mean bad. The mouse will just slow to a crawl for several seconds, seems to only do it when the machine is thinking. Like just opening safari. Does not do this in windows with the same mice. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
12,777
5,587
Hong Kong
did you try "reset BT module?

1) hold Option + Shift
2) left click the BT icon on the top menu bar
3) select debug
4) select reset BT module

The BT module will take few seconds to reset, so, the mouse will be disconnected and re-connected in few seconds. This action will NOT clear all paired up device. So, basically no harm to try.

Also, you may go to Apple developer page, and download BT explorer. Which will allow you to monitor the Link Quality, Raw RSSI , etc. This can help to diagnosis if the unstable connection is due to antenna signal too weak.
Screen Shot 2017-04-29 at 02.51.14.jpg
Screen Shot 2017-04-29 at 02.51.21.jpg


P.S. Anyone know what retransmission is? With the Broadcom card, it always start from zero, then slowly increase to 100% and stays there (until next restart / reset). However, if I use a cheap 3rd party USB 4.0 dongle, it will stay at 0%.
 
Last edited:

bjar

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 20, 2013
219
82
Sugar land, tx
did you try "reset BT module?

1) hold Option + Shift
2) left click the BT icon on the top menu bar
3) select debug
4) select reset BT module

The BT module will take few seconds to reset, so, the mouse will be disconnected and re-connected in few seconds. This action will NOT clear all paired up device. So, basically no harm to try.

Also, you may go to Apple developer page, and download BT explorer. Which will allow you to monitor the Link Quality, Raw RSSI , etc. This can help to diagnosis if the unstable connection is due to antenna signal too weak.
View attachment 697778 View attachment 697779

P.S. Anyone know what retransmission is? With the Broadcom card, it always start from zero, then slowly increase to 100% and stays there (until next restart / reset). However, if I use a cheap 3rd party USB 4.0 dongle, it will stay at 0%.
That didn't work but thank you, I learned some valuable information. What did work was turning off my synology NAS, which has USB 3.0. It is across the room and the only thing plugged into the USB is a UPS so I didn't think it was an issue. I bought it around the same time I upgraded OS X. Is there anything that can be done besides moving it further away?
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,263
6,251
Is there anything that can be done besides moving it further away?
Intel did a white paper on this. The documented fixes are either foil shielding the USB 3.0 cable at the ends or foil shielding the BT module itself. I don't know why shielding the module works--you'd think it is the antennas picking up the interference, but nope, it's the BT module.

OWC sells a kit to shield the Mac Mini BT module from its own USB 3.0. Unfortunately there is no ready-made package for Mac Pro.

I am surprised that you have noticeable interference from all the way across the room. I am able to use my BT devices even with USB 3.0 right in the Mac Pro itself, although with reduced BT range.
 

bjar

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 20, 2013
219
82
Sugar land, tx
Intel did a white paper on this. The documented fixes are either foil shielding the USB 3.0 cable at the ends or foil shielding the BT module itself. I don't know why shielding the module works--you'd think it is the antennas picking up the interference, but nope, it's the BT module.

OWC sells a kit to shield the Mac Mini BT module from its own USB 3.0. Unfortunately there is no ready-made package for Mac Pro.

I am surprised that you have noticeable interference from all the way across the room. I am able to use my BT devices even with USB 3.0 right in the Mac Pro itself, although with reduced BT range.
Its a small office. Its probably 8 feet from the computer. I'm going to move the NAS to the next room and just plug it into an airport express which will bridge to my AirPort Extreme until I can figure out something else. Would rather have it wired, but don't really have time to run the wires. Is it weird that the Magic Trackpad has no issues and is only the Magic Mouse? Also, the Logitech mouse is not bluetooth, it has a wireless USB adapter, I guess it is RF. I dunno. Since turning off the NAS is the only fix I guess that is all I can do. I will probably buy some foil shielding and try it on the wires. It's kind of ridiculous that this can actually happen.
 

ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
9,263
6,251
Also, the Logitech mouse is not bluetooth, it has a wireless USB adapter, I guess it is RF.
USB 3.0 interferes with 2.4GHz, which is bluetooth, most Wi-Fi, and probably your Logitech mouse too.

Here is the white paper if you want to read about the problems and solutions that they investigated:
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/io/universal-serial-bus/usb3-frequency-interference-paper.html

I cannot believe USB 3.0 was approved as it is with these severe problems. It reminds me of the Apple LG monitor not working when near a wi-fi router.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
12,777
5,587
Hong Kong
Its a small office. Its probably 8 feet from the computer. I'm going to move the NAS to the next room and just plug it into an airport express which will bridge to my AirPort Extreme until I can figure out something else. Would rather have it wired, but don't really have time to run the wires. Is it weird that the Magic Trackpad has no issues and is only the Magic Mouse? Also, the Logitech mouse is not bluetooth, it has a wireless USB adapter, I guess it is RF. I dunno. Since turning off the NAS is the only fix I guess that is all I can do. I will probably buy some foil shielding and try it on the wires. It's kind of ridiculous that this can actually happen.
That's interesting, you said there is no difference by removing the USB 3.0 card, right? You run the NAS via 2.4GHz Wi-Fi? If yes, that definitely can be the issue. If you can run it via 5GHz Wi-Fi, or Ethernet cable, the problem should be fixed.

May be the Magic Trackpad had better design, or longer antenna inside (because more room avail due to form factor). And The Magic Trackpad is a much newer product. AFAIK, even Magic Mouse 2, Apple just change the battery design, no BT / antenna improvement.

To reduce BT interference. All Wi-Fi should run at 5GHz, if possible, it's better to switch off all 2.4GHz channel. If not possible, you can manually set the highest possible channel number (usually channel 11 or 13), which will give yo u a bit extra margin from the BT frequency.
 

pastrychef

macrumors 601
Sep 15, 2006
4,520
1,017
New York City, NY
Mouse stutter was a serious problem for me until I switched my Wifi to 5GHz. When I was using 2.4GHz for Wifi, my Magic Mouse was nearly unusable.

As others have suggested, foil shielding the Wifi/Bluetooth card can help, but, for me, switching to 5GHz made the most impact.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
12,777
5,587
Hong Kong
The Bluetooth antenna is the weak point and the solution is very simple, will set you back ±$5...an external antenna!
https://nobblynoel.wordpress.com/2010/04/25/mac-pro-2009-bluetooth-fix/

Most likely you moved your MP?
Its a problem I can easily fix, a few times per year I find a patient.

After the fix everyone will notice a 100% better reception.
I roughly do the same thing. But didn't drill holes on the cMP. There are plenty of holes on the case already. Just buy a very long cable, and put the antenna to somewhere near the mouse. With this extreme close distance, even though something need 2.4GHz wifi around, my magic mouse still perform flawlessly.

IMG_2114.JPG
 

carpsafari

Suspended
Sep 13, 2015
277
55
the Netherlands
With this extreme close distance, even though something need 2.4GHz wifi around, my magic mouse still perform flawlessly.
Looks like you connected something wrong, I have ±8 m reception around my new bluetooth antenna, so why you need to put it directly next to your keyboard does not make sense.
I also use a 120cm IPX.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
12,777
5,587
Hong Kong
Looks like you connected something wrong, I have ±8 m reception around my new bluetooth antenna, so why you need to put it directly next to your keyboard does not make sense.
I also use a 120cm IPX.
I don't really need it and not necessary to place the antenna at this distance. My magic mouse works with stock antenna (after my Wifi ac, BT 4.0 upgrade). But may shows shuttering when something need 2.4GHz Wifi. Since, I can do this antenna fix with just $2. So I did it, and put the antenna at the "best" location. So that I can forget about this issue, and enjoy to use my BT, WIFI, USB 3.0z