Mac Pro Overpriced?

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wentwj

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Original poster
Sep 6, 2006
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So, I've been a Mac laptop fan for a while, but hadn't really thought seriously about getting a Mac desktop. Anyway, Boot Camp and Parallels changed all that.

So I go looking at the mac store, see the mac pros are actually a really good deal. But after coming here all I see is people complaining that it's over-priced. So after doing some further research on sites such as newegg and mwave, just adding two 2.66ghz Xeon processors and a dual processor MB ran the cost up to around $2,000. Quite frankly the Mac Pro seems like an absolute steal, especially at educational discount prices.

So am I missing something here? Why are people calling the Mac Pro overpriced around here? Now I can understand people wanting to wait to get it for new components, or upgraded video cards and what not, but that still doesn't make Mac Pro overpriced. I can also understand someone saying you can get a machine with 90% of the functionality of the Mac Pro for half the price but... that argument works with any high end machine you're paying over $2,000 for.

So whats the deal? Am I mistaken, and it turns out there's some big clearinghouse site for Xeon processors I'm unaware of, or are the people that claim the Mac Pro is overpriced just... dead wrong?
 

G4DP

macrumors 65816
Mar 28, 2007
1,451
3
It's the age of the technology.

Whilst you are correct a large number of members think the Mac Pro as it is is over priced, this is largely due to the fact that it hasn't yet been updated since it's release last year. The B.T.O option was not an update - although some around here would disagree. Whilst the vast majority of the technology within the Mac Pro is still very high spec, it has been in the machine for almost 12 months. I think the main gripe is Apple expects people to pay the same price as though it was brand new.
 

stimpycat

macrumors regular
Jul 2, 2007
142
0
So, I've been a Mac laptop fan for a while, but hadn't really thought seriously about getting a Mac desktop. Anyway, Boot Camp and Parallels changed all that.

So I go looking at the mac store, see the mac pros are actually a really good deal. But after coming here all I see is people complaining that it's over-priced. So after doing some further research on sites such as newegg and mwave, just adding two 2.66ghz Xeon processors and a dual processor MB ran the cost up to around $2,000. Quite frankly the Mac Pro seems like an absolute steal, especially at educational discount prices.

So am I missing something here? Why are people calling the Mac Pro overpriced around here? Now I can understand people wanting to wait to get it for new components, or upgraded video cards and what not, but that still doesn't make Mac Pro overpriced. I can also understand someone saying you can get a machine with 90% of the functionality of the Mac Pro for half the price but... that argument works with any high end machine you're paying over $2,000 for.

So whats the deal? Am I mistaken, and it turns out there's some big clearinghouse site for Xeon processors I'm unaware of, or are the people that claim the Mac Pro is overpriced just... dead wrong?
This is easy -

Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon "Woodcrest" processors
1GB memory (667MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1
16x double-layer SuperDrive

From the US Store: $2,499.00 / £1236.56

From the UK Store: $3461.54 / £1699

F"&king daylight robbery my boy.
 

stimpycat

macrumors regular
Jul 2, 2007
142
0
I may also add that if these are really 'pro' computers - having a mouse-sized 250GB HD and only 1GB of RAM as standard on a $3500 system is absurd.
 

Dane D.

macrumors 6502a
Apr 16, 2004
645
8
ohio
wentwj
So am I missing something here? Why are people calling the Mac Pro overpriced around here? Now I can understand people wanting to wait to get it for new components, or upgraded video cards and what not, but that still doesn't make Mac Pro overpriced.
I have never understood the arguement that Macs are overpriced either. I guess people have become conditioned by the PC world of cheap computers. The whole point of purchasing a Mac is the ability to run a Mac OS. Having the option to run Windows and Linux is a bargin in my eyes.
 

netdog

macrumors 603
Feb 6, 2006
5,758
37
London
I may also add that if these are really 'pro' computers - having a mouse-sized 250GB HD and only 1GB of RAM as standard on a $3500 system is absurd.
I understand that the 250 is just a startup disk, so I get the size, but it is true that the RAM and HD don't fit the price. That said, it is a beautiful and quite expandable case. A real work of art and very nice for performing upgrades.
 

pcorajr

macrumors 6502
Jun 6, 2007
311
0
They need to drop the price or upgrade a few components on it.

Ram should come standard at 2GB
The video card should be upgraded to at least the 7600 GT or one of the new 88XX
HD should be at least 500GB or 250 x 2

This will warrant the 2500 Dollar price tag.
 

xUKHCx

Administrator emeritus
Jan 15, 2006
12,587
6
The Kop
You forgot that the US Store price doesn't include taxes whereas the UK Store does.
Yeah but to account for a difference such as that the US tax would have to be around 38.5% which I doubt it is. I have no idea what it is (varies by state?) but it can't be that high. If you take the tax off the UK store then it is still £1446 which is about £210 more expensive.
 

Umbongo

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2006
4,931
54
England
Most people think it's overpriced because the only desktop machine that Apple produces they want starts at $2,500 despite in all likely hood not being aimed at them at all. Then there are those that feel for such a price they should be getting large hard drives and powerful video cards as standard (never going to happen, no Workstation vendor does it for very good reason).
 

dejo

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 2, 2004
15,981
447
The Centennial State
Yeah but to account for a difference such as that the US tax would have to be around 38.5% which I doubt it is. I have no idea what it is (varies by state?) but i doubt it is that high. If you take the tax off the UK store then it is still £1446 which is about £210 more expensive.
Most things in the UK are more expensive.
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,137
0
The Mac Pro is not overpriced. It is outdated. One could say that for the price it is a bad value. I wouldn't say "overpriced." The Mac Pro is priced great in my opinion, but, and this is where I stand on the issue. Just because Apple priced the Mac Pro well doesn't mean it can persist with outdated hardware for nearly a year. Sure it may still seem like it is a "decent value" but with outdated GPUs, stock RAM size, stock HD, etc.

Also, soon the Mac Pro will be "overpriced" due to the price drops from Intel on Xeons.

Umbongo, I don't think anyone wants or thinks it is feasible for Apple to drop a 8800GTX in the Mac Pro standard. However, at least offering current cards as stock and upgrade options is necessary and other workstation makers do in fact do this.
 

Umbongo

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2006
4,931
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England
Umbongo, I don't think anyone wants or thinks it is feasible for Apple to drop a 8800GTX in the Mac Pro standard. However, at least offering current cards as stock and upgrade options is necessary and other workstation makers do in fact do this.
There have been enough posts over the past 6 months on here that have eluded to such a thing (not nessecarily an 8800GTX but 1900/8800/7900 series cards) to make me think at least some think like that. Though they probably also fall in to the first category I mentioned. Though I don't think anyone will disagree with your second point, the biggest thing lacking from the Mac Pro line.
 

tribe3

macrumors 6502
Nov 1, 2005
350
0
Vienna, VA - USA
If it would be overpriced people wouldn't be buying it, and if it would be out-specced by another computer Apple would be upgrading it.

Apple is comfortable at the moment with the MP as it is because there is no serious competition out there.

Also, when Apple does upgrades they like to announce big stuff like "NOW 2 X times faster or 10 X faster. So I believe they're going to wait until there's something substantial to pop in there; including a new case and displays design.

About the RAM and HDs Apple likes to rip-off people (Companies) that buy everything from them. Companies don't care to pay more if they have the warranty cover. They're gonna deduce it from taxes anyways.

And yes, you have to think in putting an extra 1K (at least) on RAM and drives to that machine so the basic price is more like $3500
 

Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,080
287
Indianapolis
I may also add that if these are really 'pro' computers - having a mouse-sized 250GB HD and only 1GB of RAM as standard on a $3500 system is absurd.
You should see Dell's 80 GB hard drive, CD-ROM, and 1 GB of FB-DIMM.

Overpriced, no. Out of date, yes.
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,137
0
Yeah, but those Dells start really low. And its a DVD-ROM Eidorian ;) At least for the 690.

But, I really don't care if Apple is "comfortable." A dual quad 1.86 Xeon machine is $2735, nothing else upgraded. The dual dual 2.66 Xeon is more expensive than the Mac Pro of course.

Like I said before, just because Apple priced the Mac Pro well out the door does not mean they can sit on it and do nothing. Well, they can, but I won't be buying it of course until they do something.

Sure there is no real competition as far as price goes, although I haven't looked into special Dell deals/coupons, but Apple should stay current.
 

Eidorian

macrumors Penryn
Mar 23, 2005
29,080
287
Indianapolis
Yeah, but those Dells start really low. And its a DVD-ROM Eidorian ;) At least for the 690.

But, I really don't care if Apple is "comfortable." A dual quad 1.86 Xeon machine is $2735, nothing else upgraded. The dual dual 2.66 Xeon is more expensive than the Mac Pro of course.

Like I said before, just because Apple priced the Mac Pro well out the door does not mean they can sit on it and do nothing. Well, they can, but I won't be buying it of course until they do something.

Sure there is no real competition as far as price goes, although I haven't looked into special Dell deals/coupons, but Apple should stay current.
I've still seen the 48x CD-ROM lurk on the XP versions. :p

Try adding a second processor on a Precision workstation, ouch.
 

wentwj

macrumors regular
Original poster
Sep 6, 2006
206
0
I don't think some people understood my question...

"Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon "Woodcrest" processors
1GB memory (667MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1
16x double-layer SuperDrive

From the US Store: $2,499.00 / £1236.56

From the UK Store: $3461.54 / £1699

F"&king daylight robbery my boy."

Build a computer on a site, or show me a computer with that spec, for any significant margin less than $2500 and I'll concede my point.

Is the mac pro outdated? Maybe, it hasn't been updated but... that doesn't necessarily mean it's outdated. I just built a computer with that EXACT spec and it came to around $2250 on newegg, using the cheapest MB and RAM I could find, NOT including a case. I'm sure the MB and RAM are significantly better than the cheapest ones I included, and I still didn't add a case to that.

Even assuming the bottom of the barrel componentry I added are the same ones the mac uses, with the case $2500 is still FAR from 'highway robbery'.

I can understand saying apple should update the line, or that it may be overpriced once Intel drops their prices later this month but... as it stand now, I don't see how anyone that does ANY amount of research could say the mac pro is significantly (or even slightly) more expensive than a comparable PC with the same components.

**Edit:**
Saying that the hard drive is small, or it needs more ram, also doesn't mean it's overpriced. For the price point, with the components in it, it's comparable in price, if not cheaper, PLUS it has OS X. I obviously didn't even start factoring in software to my little price experiment above.
 

flappo

macrumors regular
Jan 8, 2003
151
0
in the cubicles
so the new chips will be 2.83 rather than 2.66 , big dealio

woo hoo !!! put out the bunting , organize a street party !!!

a 170 mhz is just what i was saying a few weeks ago

nothing to wait for...

ok , the extra cache seems like it may help in certain situations , but are we really going to see a massive - say 50% speed increase over the current mac pros ??

i doubt that very much

no wonder they're not rushing to update the pro , there's not much TO update apart from the videocards - and even then it's the misguided gamer's that seem to feel left out - all 3 of 'em

now back to my clapped out pile of crap :D
 

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,137
0
This is my point, simply because the Mac Pro is priced well people come out and say, "It isn't overpriced, nobody can beat it." Ok, so next year lets say the Mac Pro is the same as it is today, is it overpriced?

Exactly, also the Mac Pro is nearly a year old and a lot has happened in that year.

My point, again is this, Just because the Mac Pro is priced well doesn't mean they can keep selling old hardware. Doesn't mean it is overpriced, doesn't mean it a terrible computer. It is simply outdated, which depending on how you look at it, could mean overpriced. But to each their own. It is however outdated.

Flapp, you do realize that quad-cores will be the same price as the dual-cores in a couple weeks right? There are more advancements than 170mhz coming in the new chips, 45nm, more cache, quad core will be cheaper, etc.
 

flappo

macrumors regular
Jan 8, 2003
151
0
in the cubicles
are you bothered about waiting just beacse you want updated videocards ?

what on earth can an nvidia 8800 do that an x1900 can't on apple's major pro apps ?

will it make photoshop or after effects any faster ??

i just can't see the big dealio about buying such an ott videocard for something so inconsequential as gaming on a mac

you can buy a ps3 for the same price and that wipes the floor with a mac for gaming let me tell ya !
 

Umbongo

macrumors 601
Sep 14, 2006
4,931
54
England
so the new chips will be 2.83 rather than 2.66 , big dealio

woo hoo !!! put out the bunting , organize a street party !!!

a 170 mhz is just what i was saying a few weeks ago

nothing to wait for...

ok , the extra cache seems like it may help in certain situations , but are we really going to see a massive - say 50% speed increase over the current mac pros ??

i doubt that very much
You've missed the fact that those processors will be quad core as opposed to dual core, and that they are using a more efficient architecture.
 
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