Mac Pro Quad FSB Bottleneck limit for proc transplant?

[nanofrog]

Google product searched and found that there is not much in the price between the Core i7s and Xeons, sometimes even the xeons were more expensive.

The prices aren't that different, so take memory into consideration (see below).

If you plan to keep using any existing memory you have now, then the Xeon is likely the better choice overall.

Given that Core i7 is faster and apparently less expensive it would be the superior choice?

Depends. Are you willing to swap out the memory for non-ECC DDR3?

Assuming this is the case, take the memory cost into consideration as well (you can't mix different memory types; UDIMM, RDIMM, non-ECC DDR3 must all be the same).

 

[TallGlassOfFail]

No, they are exactly the same speed. Every model of Core i7 has a matching Xeon 3500 part. The prices might differ slightly due to more consumer component demand for the Core i7 brand.

Cool, so if it is exactly the same to install, (i.e no flash rom this and firmware that BLAH) then it makes more sense to go Core i7 as i don't need ECC and Core i7 is the same minus ECC but cheaper... w00t.

 

[nanofrog]

Cool, so if it is exactly the same to install, (i.e no flash rom this and firmware that BLAH) then it makes more sense to go Core i7 as i don't need ECC and Core i7 is the same minus ECC but cheaper... w00t.

If you're still only using the OEM ECC memory that came with the system, then Yes, the consumer line will most likely be the cheapest (unless you live in some hole - like Australia... ).

//Hides from the Australian members on MR...

 

[TallGlassOfFail]

The prices aren't that different, so take memory into consideration (see below).

If you plan to keep using any existing memory you have now, then the Xeon is likely the better choice overall.


Depends. Are you willing to swap out the memory for non-ECC DDR3?

Assuming this is the case, take the memory cost into consideration as well (you can't mix different memory types; UDIMM, RDIMM, non-ECC DDR3 must all be the same).

So if i put an i7 in there it would not work with apple ram?

 

[nanofrog]

So if i put an i7 in there it would not work with apple ram?

Unfortunately, NO.

The OEM memory is ECC (UDIMM's to be specific), and the i7 CPU can ONLY handle non-ECC DDR3.

 

[Eidorian]

Source.

With the newer part (3.33GHz and others used in MP's), the math works out to:

2.26GHz CPU = 9.04GB/s
2.66Ghz CPU = 10.64GB/s
2.93GHz CPU = 11.72GB/s
3.33GHz CPU = 13.32GB/s

What I don't get, is with even close to that bandwidth, why the ICH10R had to be limited to ~660MB/s.

I'm under the impression they fixed the band of the DMI sub-section in these chipsets (based on 6x mechanical drives @ 110MB/s each = 660MB/s).

QPI is bidirectional so I stated the total bandwidth for the parts I had memorized.

I do remember some complaints about X58's interconnect to the ICH10R being limited.

 

[nanofrog]

QPI is bidirectional so I stated the total bandwidth for the parts I had memorized.

I do remember some complaints about X58's interconnect to the ICH10R being limited.

I had to check myself. Even the QPI wiki doesn't mention a difference for the X58/5520 chipset. That was only listed on the X58 wiki.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for with the ICH10R (DMI to chipset's QPI interface; i.e. clocks running at different rates = timing issues).

 

[Umbongo]

Unfortunately, NO.

The OEM memory is ECC (UDIMM's to be specific), and the i7 CPU can ONLY handle non-ECC DDR3.

The Core i7 processors can use ECC memory, they just don't get ECC support enabled.

 

[VirtualRain]

I had to check myself. Even the QPI wiki doesn't mention a difference for the X58/5520 chipset. That was only listed on the X58 wiki.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for with the ICH10R (DMI to chipset's QPI interface; i.e. clocks running at different rates = timing issues).

From the X58 Wikipedia article...

The X58 has 40 PCIe lanes that are arranged in two x16 links, DMI link and "spare"-based link. When used with the ICH10 I/O Controller Hub with x4 DMI connection the "spare" supports a separate x4 PCIe connection. Future southbridge chips DMI may support a wider DMI.

That would imply the link with the ICH is 2GB/s which is much much higher than the 660MB/s limit for SATA throughput on the ICH.

 

[dryjoy]

Cool, so if it is exactly the same to install, (i.e no flash rom this and firmware that BLAH) then it makes more sense to go Core i7 as i don't need ECC and Core i7 is the same minus ECC but cheaper... w00t.

Ha ha ha! This Apple... you won't have to worry about that, their systems are not that open. Either it will drop in and work or it won't, and that's it.

 

[TallGlassOfFail]

The Core i7 processors can use ECC memory, they just don't get ECC support enabled.

This is going to be very expensive to do all at once. So if i bought the ram first and bought non-ECC DDR3 would it work ok with my xeon until it was replaced with an i7?

Ha ha ha! This Apple... you won't have to worry about that, their systems are not that open. Either it will drop in and work or it won't, and that's it.

LOL thanks, i don't want this to get super technical, just want to lift one out and put a new one down.

 

[gugucom]

I believe the issue with the Core i7 was a wake up from sleep problem. The user eventually replaced it with a Xeon 3500. This is by memory. I havn't researched it. But I would not use anything but a 3500.

Edit:https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8527844/

 

[TallGlassOfFail]

I believe the issue with the Core i7 was a wake up from sleep problem. The user eventually replaced it with a Xeon 3500. This is by memory. I havn't researched it. But I would not use anything but a 3500.

Edit:https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8527844/

Scary, thanks for that. Given what you have said, ill stick with Xeons, but ill buy the W3580 @ 3.33Ghz. I will sort out my RAM first though and give the W3580 some time to come down in price, which hopefully will be the case after intel launch their 6-core procs.

Can i use non-ECC memory with my Xeon? as ill likely be able to save money on RAM and without ECC should not effect performance right?

The link below seems to be the cheapest i can find a W3580:
http://www.okobe.co.uk/ws/product/Intel+Xeon+W3580+Processor+3.33+GHz+LGA1366/1000018085?ref=1q4bs

But ill do the RAM first and give that time to come down in price after the release of their 6-Core Xeons.

 

[nanofrog]

The Core i7 processors can use ECC memory, they just don't get ECC support enabled.

I didn't think it actually worked with any ECC format (UDIMM or RDIMM).

It would allow the OEM RAM to be used so long as everything remained UDIMM's then. Easier on the wallet.

That would imply the link with the ICH is 2GB/s which is much much higher than the 660MB/s limit for SATA throughput on the ICH.

My guess would be with the timings due to different clocks for DMI and QPI, as it must be transistioned from one bus to the other (and it must be bi-directional, so 1GB/s up and down minus clocking loss).

Make any sense at all?

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Unfortunately, NO.

The OEM memory is ECC (UDIMM's to be specific), and the i7 CPU can ONLY handle non-ECC DDR3.

I briefly had a Core i7 975 Extreme in my 2009 Mac Pro and it worked just fine with ECC RAM - I just didn't get ECC support.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Cool, so if it is exactly the same to install, (i.e no flash rom this and firmware that BLAH) then it makes more sense to go Core i7 as i don't need ECC and Core i7 is the same minus ECC but cheaper... w00t.

Several of us replaced our 2.66 GHz Xeon with a Core i7 975 Extreme 3.33 GHz part earlier this year. All but one of us (handheldgames, I think) had sleep and wake-from sleep issues using the Core i7. I ended up replacing the Core i7 975 Extreme with a comparable Xeon W3580 part which fixed the sleep/wake issues. The Core i7 has slightly different errata and voltage ranges than the Xeon part, and the differences appear sufficient to have caused some issues. I believe Handheldgames is not having these issues, which may relate to him having gotten a better binned part.

If I were you, I would get a Xeon W3580. The cost difference between that and the Core i7 975 Extreme is not substantial.

 

[gugucom]

Several of us replaced our 2.66 GHz Xeon with a Core i7 975 Extreme 3.33 GHz part earlier this year. All but one of us (handheldgames, I think) had sleep and wake-from sleep issues using the Core i7. I ended up replacing the Core i7 975 Extreme with a comparable Xeon W3580 part which fixed the sleep/wake issues. The Core i7 has slightly different errata and voltage ranges than the Xeon part, and the differences appear sufficient to have caused some issues. I believe Handheldgames is not having these issues, which may relate to him having gotten a better binned part.

If I were you, I would get a Xeon W3580. The cost difference between that and the Core i7 975 Extreme is not substantial.

Glad that I remembered right.

 

[TallGlassOfFail]

Cool. You guys have been so helpful to me i really appreciate it. . I think i will definitely go with the W3580 but i will get my RAM first because i don't want to do everything at once and find a problem but not know the cause. Plus it gives me time to save money. Also, do you think the W3580 will be affected much in price after intel start shipping their new 6-Core xeon? Because if it will go down in price because of demand for the newer chip i may wait a bit, depends how long they will take coming out with their new chip.

SSD is also a priority. Been eyeing up the new OCZ Collossus. I can get a 3.5" SATA2 500Gb or 1Tb SSD. With read upto 260Mb/s, Write upto 260Mb/s, sustained write: 220Mb/s. Unfortunately i have no way to determine the Read/Write speed of my current drive: WDC WD6400AAKS-41H2B0 which sucks because it makes it hard to determine the better drive. But from what i can see, this OCZ drive seems better than Intel and Western Digital's offerings:

http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/solid_state_drives/ocz_colossus_series_sata_ii_3_5-ssd

This website seems to be offering it the cheapest in the form of a 250Gb:

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=101506&source=froogle