Mac Pro Updates - What do you want?

[Hellhammer]

I think we can safely say it will launch with a new 30" ACD so a special event is becoming more likely ? (i am hopelessly looking for hope)

Doubt it. 27" iMac was a silent update. So was 24" ACD. And Arrandale MBPs. Plus redesigned unibody Mini. Last Mac update that wasn't silent was in last year's WWDC when MBPs were updated. Mac Pro has too small market to deserve a media event, or even press release. It seems to be that Macs are only getting silent updates and Apple is keeping media's spotlight on iToys

Of course it's possible but I'm not betting my money on that

 

[thermodynamic]

What kind of new features do you guys want for the new 2010 Mac Pro? Just wondering other peoples' opinions.

A decent video card.

 

[oilfighter]

What kind of new features do you guys want for the new 2010 Mac Pro? Just wondering other peoples' opinions.

back to the original topic.

I would like to see a cheaper Mac Pro. the i7 on the iMac is plenty for me, but I can't be the only person out there that wants a stand along computer so I can hook up my own (Non glossy) monitor and be able to upgrade hard drives. I'm a photographer and shoot RAW, both the monitor selection and HD space is very important to me. So I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for cheaper price tag.

 

[Umbongo]

back to the original topic.

I would like to see a cheaper Mac Pro. the i7 on the iMac is plenty for me, but I can't be the only person out there that wants a stand along computer so I can hook up my own (Non glossy) monitor and be able to upgrade hard drives. I'm a photographer and shoot RAW, both the monitor selection and HD space is very important to me. So I'm willing to sacrifice some performance for cheaper price tag.

There isn't any performance to sacrifice though. What there is to sacrifice is that 50%+ margin Apple had.

 

[Hellhammer]

There isn't any performance to sacrifice though. What there is to sacrifice is that 50%+ margin Apple had.

Exactly. The W3520 which is used in low-end Mac Pro costs as much as i7 in iMac (284$). UP versions cost the same as non server counterparts, only DP versions cost more due dual QPI and lower TDP. Apple just loves the profit

 

[strausd]

Well, would be nice to bring back optional liquid cooling for both CPU and graphic card. Not to mention dual Quad-core (low end) or dual hex-core (high end) configurations. Also add workstation graphic cards as options. Seriously, don't use crap GT120 anymore, it's mac pro, not macbook pro.

I seriously doubt they will have the option for liquid cooling. The MPs get good ventilation already and you would really only make the best use out of liquid cooling with over-clocking.

They will for sure have a 6-core and 12-core option. I don't think they would also have a quad-core low end option along with a 8-core option. Do you really think that Apple would put that many options on their MP? Too many people would start saying "well is the 6-core really that much better than the quad? And is the 8-core really that much better than the 6-core? And is the 12-core really that much better than the 8-core?" I just don't think Apple would give that many options. Doesn't seem like their style.

I cannot see it being a quiet upgrade anymore. Surely after so long it will get a special event. I can see this happening with autocad and 3D studio being showcased.Apple need to secure the Pro market.The line up will be simple 6 or 12 (2 versions) core new BTO ati card, 6 ram slots plus esata and usb 3.The case will remain.

I disagree about the event for the MP. If all they do is update the MP then I do not think they will have an event just for that. It has been so long since their last even just for a computer update, why would they start now? However, if they also come out with new FCP that can utilize all possible cores and update the XServe as well, then I could see them doing an event, but not one solely for the MP. Also, they need to update the MBA, so if theres a big event, that will probably be included too.

I agree that the line up will be simple. I do not think they will have an 8-core option and theres a good chance they won't even have a cheap quad-core option. They will probably just swap out a quad-core for a hexa-core.

I'm hoping their high end GPU will be at least an ATI Radeon HD 5870, however, I would LOVE to have a 5970, but that doesn't seem too likely. By 6 RAM slots, I'm guessing you mean 6 per CPU, so 12 slots for dual CPU option. That too would be amazing, but doesn't seem too likely. That would crank up the max RAM quite a bit, which would be nice.

eSATA just seems like wishful thinking. That doesn't seem like a big possibility for them. But then again, you are speculation eSATA just like I'm speculating no eSATA, so who knows. As for USB 3.0, it seems a little new for Apple. I mean, they just now put in HDMI, and thats only on their mini! I could see them going for FW 1600 before USB 3.0, they just seem to like the whole FW thing a little more.

The case, ehh, who knows. All of their desktops along with their 24" LED display now have the black Apple logo on it. If they do anything with the case, they will at least add a black Apple logo on it.

I would love for them to add an option for an extra 3.5" or 2.5" bay in the second optical bay. I don't really have a need for 2 superdrives, but would love an extra play for a harddrive. I also think more people would be able to make good use out of this compared to a second superdrive.

I second the SATA-6 wish. SSDs are going to get very fast in the next few years saturating the SATA-3 bus.

It's too soon for lightpeak. For some reason I don't think Apple is too hot on USB3 and will implement lightpeak when it's available, probably in 2011.

Definitely agree with you on this one. Apple seems to like SSDs a lot, they talked real highly of them when they were first put in their computers with the MBA. They really like how fast it is and that it has no moving parts. And with the increase in popularity and speed of SSDs, SATA II won't be able to fully handle what is capable of SSDs.

I also agree with you on lightpeak and USB 3.0. I think both are a little new for Apple, they don't really seem to jump on the bandwagon and follow everyone else.

 

[rhett7660]

I second the SATA-6 wish. SSDs are going to get very fast in the next few years saturating the SATA-3 bus.

It's too soon for lightpeak. For some reason I don't think Apple is too hot on USB3 and will implement lightpeak when it's available, probably in 2011.

I agree with the SSD's also. I want them and want them now (of course at a lower price point!)

I don't want them to change the case to much if they do decide to change it. I love the look.

 

[kevink2]

At least I'm not in the boat of those waiting for an upgraded Mac Pro because they need to buy, and don't want to buy a current model 1 month before an improved model came out.

I went with the Pro 2 years ago because I wanted "future proofing", buying more than I need for the expansion capabilities. And back then you pretty much couldn't get an Apple otherwise that supported more than 4GB of RAM. Or more than 2 cores. Except for the Pro.

Still, generally, for my home usage, I don't use more than a couple cores, nor most of my 14GB of RAM, but it is there if needed.

But I still have more headroom than even a top of the like iMac.

 

[strausd]

I don't want them to change the case to much if they do decide to change it. I love the look.

Definitely agree on that. Wouldn't mind a black apple logo tho. But if they decide to change the case, I would like it to stay relatively the same and keep the same functionality or get better, of course.

 

[nanofrog]

I seriously doubt they will have the option for liquid cooling.

Given what happened with the liquid cooled G5 systems, I doubt they'd be willing to take that route again if at all possible. For the Hex core parts, they definitely won't, as they'll re-use the existing system boards with a firmware update (add in the necessary microcode to make them work).

I don't think they would also have a quad-core low end option along with a 8-core option.

There's only 1x Hex core part that can be used in the SP systems, which is the W3680. It's expensive ($999 is the quantity pricing that's been published). So to have lower cost models to fill the area, they'll have to stick with 35xx parts (there are a couple of new ones out that offer higher clocks that can be substituted for the existing low and mid points; W3530 and W3550 respectively).

As per the DP parts, they'll all be 56xx, but not all of them are Hex core (and those that are, aren't cheap). There's not enough Hex core parts in the cost ranges needed to make all the DP systems Dodeca core, so there will be Octads as well to fill out the line.

I'm hoping their high end GPU will be at least an ATI Radeon HD 5870, however, I would LOVE to have a 5970, but that doesn't seem too likely. By 6 RAM slots, I'm guessing you mean 6 per CPU, so 12 slots for dual CPU option. That too would be amazing, but doesn't seem too likely. That would crank up the max RAM quite a bit, which would be nice.

The base graphics card is likely going to be a GT220, and the high end would be the HD5870. A high end nVidia product would be by a 3rd party as it was with EVGA producing the GTX285.

eSATA just seems like wishful thinking. That doesn't seem like a big possibility for them. But then again, you are speculation eSATA just like I'm speculating no eSATA, so who knows. As for USB 3.0, it seems a little new for Apple. I mean, they just now put in HDMI, and thats only on their mini! I could see them going for FW 1600 before USB 3.0, they just seem to like the whole FW thing a little more.

The same boards in the 2009 systems will be used in the 2010 systems for cost reasons (Intel designs their chipsets to work with both parts released on an architecture within a Tick Tock cycle so vendors can reduce their costs). This isn't out of pure generosity, but rather saves them time and money, and even makes a product line more attractive as well (i.e. boards can be used with 2 different processor series, as it shares the same socket and chipset).

What this means for the 2010 systems, is there will be NO:

• USB 3.0
• FW 1600
• LightPeak
• SATA 6.0Gb/s
• Additional DIMM slots

I also agree with you on lightpeak and USB 3.0. I think both are a little new for Apple, they don't really seem to jump on the bandwagon and follow everyone else.

LightPeak isn't even ready yet (look for it in 2011). USB 3.0 won't show up until Intel places it in the chipset, which is 2012 (Intel recently made an announcement on this). Apple just doesn't do much with add-on silicon, as they prefer to only use features in the chipset as it's cheaper.

 

[Topper]

.
A HD 5970 2GB or a HD 5870 2GB video card.
I will not cry if it's a GTX 480 1.536GB card.

A power supply powerful enough to run three of those puppies.

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.

 

[strausd]

There's only 1x Hex core part that can be used in the SP systems, which is the W3680. It's expensive ($999 is the quantity pricing that's been published). So to have lower cost models to fill the area, they'll have to stick with 35xx parts (there are a couple of new ones out that offer higher clocks that can be substituted for the existing low and mid points; W3530 and W3550 respectively).

As per the DP parts, they'll all be 56xx, but not all of them are Hex core (and those that are, aren't cheap). There's not enough Hex core parts in the cost ranges needed to make all the DP systems Dodeca core, so there will be Octads as well to fill out the line.

Do you think the price will go up significantly with the dual six-core systems? And if they have a 4,6,8, and 12 core option, do you think they would raise the 12-core option price even more to stretch everything out a bit?

 

[jjahshik32]

A Mac Pro with SLI or Crossfire!!!

 

[peakchua]

A decent video card.

ATI RADEON HD 5870 GRAPHICS CARD OR NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 285. (fermi cards suck the worlds balls of XD )

i would want 2 of those xeons x5680 the 6 core ones, and way impossible, a display that comes with it + 8 gigs of ram for the first model and 16 for the second (its pro!) i want vga or a free adapter because a lot of displays are vga based today. mini display port is a waste of my time

 

[strausd]

i would want 2 of those xeons x5680 the 6 core ones, and way impossible, a display that comes with it + 8 gigs of ram for the first model and 16 for the second (its pro!) i want vga or a free adapter because a lot of displays are vga based today. mini display port is a waste of my time

If put that much RAM in to start with, it would make the entry price much much higher, so I would be against that. Plus everyone just goes and gets RAM themselves. And I am a fan of their 24" LED display and love it, it is gorgeous. Because of that I do not think MDP is a waste. It may be a waste of your time, but I don't think you are the only person Apple to trying to sell to.

 

[nanofrog]

A HD 5970 2GB or a HD 5870 2GB video card.

The HD5970 is a dual GPU model, and would only run 1x GPU under OS X (Crossfire support required to run the second GPU). So unless Apple adds Crossfire support, it wouldn't work.

I will not cry if it's a GTX 480 1.536GB card.

This would come from a 3rd party such as EVGA if it happens.

A power supply powerful enough to run three of those puppies.

Not going to happen this time around (same boards as the 2009's), nor has the MP aimed as a gaming system.

So far, Apple's shown no interest in supporting Crossfire (software support, as there's no need of a chip on the board, as is the case for SLI).

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.

Apple can only control what they develop themselves.

Do you think the price will go up significantly with the dual six-core systems? And if they have a 4,6,8, and 12 core option, do you think they would raise the 12-core option price even more to stretch everything out a bit?

Well, in the case of the W3680, it's the same quantity price (published) as the W3580 that's in the top end 2009 Quad currently. So the price shouldn't change, unless they decide to add even more margin (granted, there will be a different graphics card, and possibly a larger HDD, but it would fall into the same pricing Apple pays currently).

Apple could juggle the DP pricing about a bit (i.e. model separation), but it's likely to remain around the same as existing systems. The Dodeca could be a bit more than just the additional cost of the CPU's. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see.

A Mac Pro with SLI or Crossfire!!!

Dream on.

 

[Topper]

64-bit video editing applications that make use of the Mac Pro's and Snow Leopard's and the video cards' power.

Apple can only control what they develop themselves.

And they are not doing a good job of getting out a 64-bit FCP and 64-bit QTX Pro.

 

[nanofrog]

And they are not doing a good job of getting out a 64-bit FCP and 64-bit QTX Pro.

I recall there were complaints, but couldn't for the life of me recall what they were.

I presume this is related to the Cocoa/Carbon situation (not all the API's have been re-written/converted over to 64bit)?

 

[grue]

Some video card choices that don't suck and aren't financial sodomy would be nice. I'm not buying a new computer (pointless), but I'd very much like a new GPU.

Not related to the computer itself, but wishing they'd hurry up and bring Final Cut out of the stone age so it can actually take advantage of the hardware I run it on.

 

[strausd]

Apple could juggle the DP pricing about a bit (i.e. model separation), but it's likely to remain around the same as existing systems. The Dodeca could be a bit more than just the additional cost of the CPU's. Ultimately, we'll have to wait and see.

Well Intel's estimated price on their website hardly show any price difference between the 5500s and 5600s. That makes me think that the price wouldn't change much at all, at least for just a CPU upgrade.

 

[nanofrog]

Well Intel's estimated price on their website hardly show any price difference between the 5500s and 5600s. That makes me think that the price wouldn't change much at all, at least for just a CPU upgrade.

That's the basis I'm using (expect pricing to remain the same/very similar to what it is currently).

But if Apple decides they want more margin per system, we will see an increase (i.e. 2x 55890's and the margin % applied to the difference may occur, rather than just add in the difference between the processors <difference between base model and P/N selected in the configuration page if it's a higher clock speed>).

 

[strausd]

That's the basis I'm using (expect pricing to remain the same/very similar to what it is currently).

But if Apple decides they want more margin per system, we will see an increase (i.e. 2x 55890's and the margin % applied to the difference may occur, rather than just add in the difference between the processors <difference between base model and P/N selected in the configuration page if it's a higher clock speed>).

I'm hopin they keep relatively the same price point for the current 8-core as they will for the 12-core. If they add a quad and octo-core option in, I would like to see those drop a few hundred from what they are now.

If there is a huge price difference between the current 8-core and the soon to be 12-core, it better be for including their higher end GPU rather than because of the CPU upgrade. I do not really care if they have more RAM in the base model, as most people, including myself, will just add that in personally and save money.

Also, I am hoping that if there is a new case design, that will not cause the price to go up. I am expecting at least a black Apple logo on the new MP, considering they are now on all of their desktops along with the 24" LED display.

This is complete speculation and little off topic from what I was just talking about, but I'm am thinking we might see an update from Apple on July 13. Mid March - new MBP, mid April - new MB, mid June - new Mac Mini. So mid July could possibly bring an updated MP. The problem is that the MBA is also due for an update, along with the iMac, but not as much. I'm not so sure they would do it this coming Tuesday because there is still a lot of iPhone 4 stuff still going on. Not sure if they would end up shipping from the same place, but if they do then it might slow things down again, but if not then that is completely irrelevant.

So to conclude, I want a new Mac Pro

 

[Hellhammer]

I'm hopin they keep relatively the same price point for the current 8-core as they will for the 12-core. If they add a quad and octo-core option in, I would like to see those drop a few hundred from what they are now.

CPUs for 12-core are already $2k so that's double what the current CPUs in low-end octo cost. That leaves 1000$ for other components so I seriously doubt Apple can make 12-core for $3k, especially as we know that they love the profit.

 

[nanofrog]

Also, I am hoping that if there is a new case design, that will not cause the price to go up. I am expecting at least a black Apple logo on the new MP, considering they are now on all of their desktops along with the 24" LED display.

A new case is possible, but not a guarantee by any means. It could also push the price up a bit as well, especially if they attempt to make it from a single piece (sans side panel that removes). Basically what I mean is a casting in the basic shape of the case with the panel off, then machined to the final product. That's not cheap, but not impossible either if the economy of scale works out.

A new case would be a good way to distinguish the 2009 and 2010 systems from one another (or previous Intel MPs for that matter), and it also spaces the R&D out (not all at once during an architecture change). Then recycle the case with re-worked internals for the next revision (2011 systems).

But keeping the current case would be the cheapest way to go from a short-term POV.

If there is a huge price difference between the current 8-core and the soon to be 12-core, it better be for including their higher end GPU rather than because of the CPU upgrade. I do not really care if they have more RAM in the base model, as most people, including myself, will just add that in personally and save money.

But there is a chance the the cost will be higher. Let my try to illustrate:

Current 2.93GHz Mac Pro (2009)

• CPU = (2x) X5570 @ $1386USD (each) as per Intel's published quantity pricing. So the CPU cost alone is $2772USD.
• Apple Retail Price = $5899USD (otherwise base configuration).

Hex Core 56xx Series Processors for a high-end MP

X5670

• Clock = 2.93GHz
• Cost = $1440USD each (system cost is $2880)

X5680

• Clock = 3.33GHz
• Cost = $1663USD each (system cost is $3326USD)

To keep costs under control, the X5670 is a more likely choice as the fastest CPU offering. But it's still a bit more expensive. Then you need to figure in for any cost differences for graphics cards (i.e. GT220), and possibly for a new case. That will push the price a bit, unless Apple choses to lower the margin slightly to keep it at the current price (possible, as the cost differences may be cheaper for some items, such as RAM that would balance out others that have increased).

Now consider the possibility that the difference in parts cost may be multiplied by the target margin as well. That's where it could get a little ugly (say a new case design in particular).

CPUs for 12-core are already $2k so that's double what the current CPUs in low-end octo cost. That leaves 1000$ for other components so I seriously doubt Apple can make 12-core for $3k, especially as we know that they love the profit.

See above.

The simple way to look at it, is $5899 - $2772 = $3127 for margin, boards, coolers, ... (system is only upgraded processors, so everything else is the same as a base system).

For the base model, it's $3299 - ($373 * 2) = $2553.

To me, this clearly indicates the margin is being applied to the difference in parts cost, as is standard practice.

 

[oilfighter]

Mac Pro updates - what do you want?

I want it to come out tomorrow.