Mac Pro + X5687... had to try it

[tpivette89]

After doing a lot research about compatible CPUs in all forms of the various Mac Pros (I own several models), this particular combo came up very frequently. Almost all said it wouldn't work, but I couldn't find PROOF that anyone tried it and failed (well... there was ONE old thread I came across where it didn't work, but details were sketchy).

So I looked up the price of a used one on eBay... it ran between $45 and $50 used. Not too bad, and certainly not expensive enough for me NOT to try it. So I made the purchase, and after a few days, it arrived on my doorstep.

Now then, about my machine. Its a single CPU, early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 (flashed to 5,1) that I swapped a X5690 into. Its equipped with 12GB (3 x 4GB) of DDR3 PC10600R RAM running at 1333mhz. OS is on a PNY CS900 120GB SSD in drive bay #1. Not too shabby, but really it's a basic setup.

I popped the tray out, removed the heatsink and processor, and cleaned everything up. Plopped in the X5687 CPU, added some thermal paste, screwed the heatsink back on, and slid the tray back in. Powered it on and crossed my fingers...

The machine turned on, sounded like it was coming to life, but no chime and I was treated to a black screen. So I powered down, took out the CPU tray, looked everything over, and re-inserted the tray. Powered back on, and still nothing.

Feeling like perhaps I did something wrong, I pulled the X5687 and checked for anything out of the ordinary. Nothing looked out of place, so I installed the known working X5690 and fired the machine back up. Power on, subtle noises were heard, got the chime and boot screen. Everything fired back up and was working 100%.

In conclusion, it seems as though the X5687 officially will not work... well at least in a single CPU, flashed 4,1. I'm probably going out on a limb here, but maybe in an actual 5,1... or perhaps in a dual CPU setup... results would be different. There also is always the possibility that I got a DOA chip... but sadly, I have no other system to install it into to verify. So at least for me and my setup, I can say without a doubt, the X5687 is not compatible.

Hope this helps anyone that was still on the fence or had additional doubts.

 

[h9826790]

Thanks for the testing. Appreciate it.

 

[ActionableMango]

Thanks for testing!

By the way, reports of X5698 not working in Mac Pro are also quite rare.

 

[LightBulbFun]

Very interesting, thank you for testing the X5687 (BTW which BootROM version is your 5,1 on?)

I do wonder why it wont work since the X5687 shares the same CPUID and microcode as any other westmere-EP CPU.

my theories are,

A: it might only work in a dual CPU Mac Pro with the 5520 chipset for some reason? but this would be highly unusual, we know all LGA1366 CPUs are compatible with the X58/5500/5520 chipsets in the PC world.

B: the Mac Pro 4,1 SMC could be incompatible and somehow preventing POST? we do know real 5,1s do have a higher SMC version.

C: it could be the Mac Pro EFI does not support such a high stock multiplier, back in 2010 when The 5,1 came out the CPU with the highest Stock multiplier was the X5677 which was 26-28x (the X5690 was not out then) where as the X5687 is 27-29x.

I know the EVGA SR2 Blackbird motherboard has a similar issue with X5698s they will POST in that Motherboard but are stuck at 1.6Ghz since the motherboard does not support such a high multiplier but user "DeathBringer" in the BIOS-mods forum, a BIOS modding guru by the looks of things, was able to solve that issue. https://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Solved-Request-bios-mod-for-evga-sr-2?pid=122281#pid122281 I wonder if its possible to apply the same mod to a Mac Pros EFI (or just even see if the too high stock multiplier is the issue at play or if theres something else) (on that note I did a quick search for X5687 in an SR2 and I cant find much...)

also raises the question what would a Core i7 995X CPU do in a MP5,1? this was a Semi-unreleased CPU a 3.6Ghz 6 Core Westmere CPU. sadly its a very rare CPU so finding one would be pretty interesting seeing as it was never put to market. but I do wonder what it would do in a Mac Pro?

 

[vintagealuminum]

I would like install
X5687 in my 4.1 flashed to 5.1,
i searched all forums...same here...i wonder why it don't work.

what is strange, i just make a search on geekbench.com
for x5687 and there is 4 results
with this x5687 on mac pro 5.1!

can it be fake results on geekbench.com?

 

[ActionableMango]

can it be fake results on geekbench.com?

Hackintoshes

 

[LightBulbFun]

View attachment 760692

I would like install
X5687 in my 4.1 flashed to 5.1,
i searched all forums...same here...i wonder why it don't work.

what is strange, i just make a search on geekbench.com
for x5687 and there is 4 results
with this x5687 on mac pro 5.1!

can it be fake results on geekbench.com?

thats OS X on a PC a Hackintosh, Masquerading as a Mac Pro 5,1 sadly

 

[tpivette89]

Very interesting, thank you for testing the X5687 (BTW which BootROM version is your 5,1 on?)

Sorry I didn't respond earlier... my BootRom is MP51.0084.B00
[doublepost=1525454620][/doublepost]

View attachment 760692

I would like install
X5687 in my 4.1 flashed to 5.1,
i searched all forums...same here...i wonder why it don't work.

what is strange, i just make a search on geekbench.com
for x5687 and there is 4 results
with this x5687 on mac pro 5.1!

can it be fake results on geekbench.com?

Yes, that's gotta be a Hackintosh. While the results may be different on a real 5,1 (probably not), I can say for sure it won't work in a 4,1 that's flashed to a 5,1. After trying the X5687 in my SP machine, I threw in the X5690 that was already in there previously and it worked just fine. Then, just yesterday, I swapped the stock W3520 back into it because I had to rob the X5690 for my DP machine that's going to be upgraded soon. So the technique isn't the issue, it's just incompatible with the machine.

Sad, because I really wanted to see what kind of single core scores I could get with it. Oh well...
[doublepost=1525454967][/doublepost]

I do wonder why it wont work since the X5687 shares the same CPUID and microcode as any other westmere-EP CPU.

my theories are,

A: it might only work in a dual CPU Mac Pro with the 5520 chipset for some reason? but this would be highly unusual, we know all LGA1366 CPUs are compatible with the X58/5500/5520 chipsets in the PC world.

B: the Mac Pro 4,1 SMC could be incompatible and somehow preventing POST? we do know real 5,1s do have a higher SMC version.

C: it could be the Mac Pro EFI does not support such a high stock multiplier, back in 2010 when The 5,1 came out the CPU with the highest Stock multiplier was the X5677 which was 26-28x (the X5690 was not out then) where as the X5687 is 27-29x.

I know the EVGA SR2 Blackbird motherboard has a similar issue with X5698s they will POST in that Motherboard but are stuck at 1.6Ghz since the motherboard does not support such a high multiplier but user "DeathBringer" in the BIOS-mods forum, a BIOS modding guru by the looks of things, was able to solve that issue. https://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Solved-Request-bios-mod-for-evga-sr-2?pid=122281#pid122281 I wonder if its possible to apply the same mod to a Mac Pros EFI (or just even see if the too high stock multiplier is the issue at play or if theres something else) (on that note I did a quick search for X5687 in an SR2 and I cant find much...)

also raises the question what would a Core i7 995X CPU do in a MP5,1? this was a Semi-unreleased CPU a 3.6Ghz 6 Core Westmere CPU. sadly its a very rare CPU so finding one would be pretty interesting seeing as it was never put to market. but I do wonder what it would do in a Mac Pro?

Don't tell me that... as I just received a DP '09 Mac Pro with the E5520s inside. Just out of curiosity, why would you think this would be a special case?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Don't tell me that... as I just received a DP '09 Mac Pro with the E5520s inside. Just out of curiosity, why would you think this would be a special case?

i cant say for sure why (especially as X5687s do work with X58 based PCs) but I have encounter special cases like this in the past when messing with computers so I like to exhaust all the options before finally writing something off if that makes sense

if you do plan on trying the X5687 in a Dual socket 2009 Mac Pro remember that it uses lidless CPUs which throws another variable into the mix (you could de lid the CPU but then you may damage the CPU doing that or you could try without de-lidding, but then you dont know if its not POSTing because the CPU is well and truly not compatible or if its not POSTing because Screw No 3 needs 1/4th of an extra turn...)

the best Mac Pro to test an X5687 in would be a 2010-2012 Dual Socket Mac Pro that would rule out any questionable like Chipset type and SMC version.

(PS there is a new BootROM out for the MP5,1 and flashed 4,1s: MP51.0085.B00)

 

[tpivette89]

i cant say for sure why (especially as X5687s do work with X58 based PCs) but I have encounter special cases like this in the past when messing with computers so I like to exhaust all the options before finally writing something off if that makes sense

if you do plan on trying the X5687 in a Dual socket 2009 Mac Pro remember that it uses lidless CPUs which throws another variable into the mix (you could de lid the CPU but then you may damage the CPU doing that or you could try without de-lidding, but then you dont know if its not POSTing because the CPU is well and truly not compatible or if its not POSTing because Screw No 3 needs 1/4th of an extra turn...)

the best Mac Pro to test an X5687 in would be a 2010-2012 Dual Socket Mac Pro that would rule out any questionable like Chipset type and SMC version.

I'd love to try a pair of these in my DP, flashed '09... but I'd have to de-lid them. And if they DIDN'T work, that would mean the CPUs would be useless in anything but niche cases (in other words, I couldn't test them in a true 5,1 Mac Pro afterwards). While I do have some time before my second X5690 arrives (end of the month... shipping from China), I could have another X5687 at my doorstep at the end of this week if I wanted to. Just don't know if I wanna take the plunge and potentially mod these chips to the point where no one else would use them. If they didn't work, I'd like to be able to recoup my cost by selling them on eBay... and if they're de-lidded, I doubt I could do that.

Decisions...
[doublepost=1525493649][/doublepost]

(PS there is a new BootROM out for the MP5,1 and flashed 4,1s: MP51.0085.B00)

Weird... as I installed High Sierra in both my SP and DP machines, but didn't get the "85" firmware update, but got the "84" firmware instead.

 

[h9826790]

I'd love to try a pair of these in my DP, flashed '09... but I'd have to de-lid them. And if they DIDN'T work, that would mean the CPUs would be useless in anything but niche cases (in other words, I couldn't test them in a true 5,1 Mac Pro afterwards). While I do have some time before my second X5690 arrives (end of the month... shipping from China), I could have another X5687 at my doorstep at the end of this week if I wanted to. Just don't know if I wanna take the plunge and potentially mod these chips to the point where no one else would use them. If they didn't work, I'd like to be able to recoup my cost by selling them on eBay... and if they're de-lidded, I doubt I could do that.

Decisions...
[doublepost=1525493649][/doublepost]

Weird... as I installed High Sierra in both my SP and DP machines, but didn't get the "85" firmware update, but got the "84" firmware instead.

You can apply some liquid metal and put the lid back on.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I'd love to try a pair of these in my DP, flashed '09... but I'd have to de-lid them. And if they DIDN'T work, that would mean the CPUs would be useless in anything but niche cases (in other words, I couldn't test them in a true 5,1 Mac Pro afterwards). While I do have some time before my second X5690 arrives (end of the month... shipping from China), I could have another X5687 at my doorstep at the end of this week if I wanted to. Just don't know if I wanna take the plunge and potentially mod these chips to the point where no one else would use them. If they didn't work, I'd like to be able to recoup my cost by selling them on eBay... and if they're de-lidded, I doubt I could do that.

Decisions...
[doublepost=1525493649][/doublepost]

Weird... as I installed High Sierra in both my SP and DP machines, but didn't get the "85" firmware update, but got the "84" firmware instead.

the "85" firmware came out with the 10.13.4 update, but when you update via the MAS it does not install the FW update, you have to download the Mac OS Installer app and open the App where it will tell you, you have to install a FW update first.

as for the CPUs, unless you can get a second X5687 really cheap, I would not splash the cash for a second one. plus you dont need 2 CPUs to test a CPU out in a Dual socket Machine

as for de-lidding, as @h9826790 says above you can put the lids back on, a lot of the people in the PCMR scene often de-lid their CPUs and replace the intel ToothPaste with liquid metal and then stick the lids back down, they do this for better thermal performance (as modern intel CPUs the heat spreader is not soldered down like it is on the Xeon CPUs we use), but you dont have to use liquid metal, any sort of thermal paste will work, you just have to make sure when putting the lid back down you clean off all the old solder still attached to the IHS. (the PCMR guys use liquid metal for the best thermal performance possible )

this is what I plan to do with my 2 De-lidded X5677s if I ever upgrade from them to X5690s or something and I want to re-use my X5677s somewhere rather then sell em (ill prolly just use regular thermal goop rather then liquid metal tho)

 

[AlexMaximus]

the "85" firmware came out with the 10.13.4 update, but when you update via the MAS it does not install the FW update, you have to download the Mac OS Installer app and open the App where it will tell you, you have to install a FW update first.

as for the CPUs, unless you can get a second X5687 really cheap, I would not splash the cash for a second one. plus you dont need 2 CPUs to test a CPU out in a Dual socket Machine

as for de-lidding, as @h9826790 says above you can put the lids back on, a lot of the people in the PCMR scene often de-lid their CPUs and replace the intel ToothPaste with liquid metal and then stick the lids back down, they do this for better thermal performance (as modern intel CPUs the heat spreader is not soldered down like it is on the Xeon CPUs we use), but you dont have to use liquid metal, any sort of thermal paste will work, you just have to make sure when putting the lid back down you clean off all the old solder still attached to the IHS. (the PCMR guys use liquid metal for the best thermal performance possible )

this is what I plan to do with my 2 De-lidded X5677s if I ever upgrade from them to X5690s or something and I want to re-use my X5677s somewhere rather then sell em (ill prolly just use regular thermal goop rather then liquid metal tho)

I just found this link of HOPE here. A little bit further down the article, he states the X5687 works in a dual set up...
You may consult him, where he got his info. Its really interesting! This would be great news for folks that want to upgrade from a Hex core to a full 12 core setup. It would be a true mutant box !

http://pindelski.org/Photography/2013/07/10/mac-pro-2009-part-xiii/

 

[vintagealuminum]

I just found this link of HOPE here. A little bit further down the article, he states the X5687 works in a dual set up...
You may consult him, where he got his info. Its really interesting! This would be great news for folks that want to upgrade from a Hex core to a full 12 core setup. It would be a true mutant box !

http://pindelski.org/Photography/2013/07/10/mac-pro-2009-part-xiii/

thank you, but i know this article,
and i think this guy is making an mistake because he is speaking about X5687 6 cores,
X5687 has only 4 cores, doesn't exist othe version.

 

[ActionableMango]

You may consult him, where he got his info.

I tried contacting him years ago to correct the number of cores (as vintagealuminum pointed out), and also to ask if that upgrade was theoretical or if he's actually done it. He never responded.

Also his CPU upgrade service webpage worked back then. It was a bit odd that he'd blog about the x5687 CPU upgrade, and offer a CPU upgrade service, but not the x5687 upgrade he blogged about as one of his service choices.

And now that we'd had 2-3 people try it out in person to verify it doesn't work, I feel it is 100% confirmed that a drop-in upgrade is not possible.

 

[vintagealuminum]

I tried contacting him years ago to correct the number of cores (as vintagealuminum pointed out), and also to ask if that upgrade was theoretical or if he's actually done it. He never responded.

Also his CPU upgrade service webpage worked back then. It was a bit odd that he'd blog about the x5687 CPU upgrade, and offer a CPU upgrade service, but not the x5687 upgrade he blogged about as one of his service choices.

And now that we'd had 2-3 people try it out in person to verify it doesn't work, I feel it is 100% confirmed that a drop-in upgrade is not possible.

thank you, i also contacted him about these processors, but he never responded.

 

[flowrider]

I wrote this a almost 2 years ago when discussing the X5687:

Connections and pins are all the same. As explained above, there are other CPUs in the X5600 series that also won't work, they came out after the 2012 5,1 cMP was released and the Mac ROM doesn't recognize them.

Lou

 

[ActionableMango]

With drop-in upgrade not a possibility, the only hope I see left is a Mac Pro enthusiast with special knowledge or dedication like LightBulbFun. He's playing around with microcode changes and searching for hardware mods.

If there is possibility of getting these last couple of CPUs working, I think it will come from him or someone like him.

 

[vintagealuminum]

this would be great!

 

[tsialex]

After doing a lot research about compatible CPUs in all forms of the various Mac Pros (I own several models), this particular combo came up very frequently. Almost all said it wouldn't work, but I couldn't find PROOF that anyone tried it and failed (well... there was ONE old thread I came across where it didn't work, but details were sketchy).

So I looked up the price of a used one on eBay... it ran between $45 and $50 used. Not too bad, and certainly not expensive enough for me NOT to try it. So I made the purchase, and after a few days, it arrived on my doorstep.

Now then, about my machine. Its a single CPU, early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1 (flashed to 5,1) that I swapped a X5690 into. Its equipped with 12GB (3 x 4GB) of DDR3 PC10600R RAM running at 1333mhz. OS is on a PNY CS900 120GB SSD in drive bay #1. Not too shabby, but really it's a basic setup.

I popped the tray out, removed the heatsink and processor, and cleaned everything up. Plopped in the X5687 CPU, added some thermal paste, screwed the heatsink back on, and slid the tray back in. Powered it on and crossed my fingers...

The machine turned on, sounded like it was coming to life, but no chime and I was treated to a black screen. So I powered down, took out the CPU tray, looked everything over, and re-inserted the tray. Powered back on, and still nothing.

Feeling like perhaps I did something wrong, I pulled the X5687 and checked for anything out of the ordinary. Nothing looked out of place, so I installed the known working X5690 and fired the machine back up. Power on, subtle noises were heard, got the chime and boot screen. Everything fired back up and was working 100%.

In conclusion, it seems as though the X5687 officially will not work... well at least in a single CPU, flashed 4,1. I'm probably going out on a limb here, but maybe in an actual 5,1... or perhaps in a dual CPU setup... results would be different. There also is always the possibility that I got a DOA chip... but sadly, I have no other system to install it into to verify. So at least for me and my setup, I can say without a doubt, the X5687 is not compatible.

Hope this helps anyone that was still on the fence or had additional doubts.

Did you tried with 140.0.0.0.0?

 

[tpivette89]

Did you tried with 140.0.0.0.0?

I have not. I do still have the CPU, but I only have my DP cMP currently, so I would have to delid the X5687 and try it as a single CPU in my dual CPU machine.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

As an update to anyone who finds this thread, the 140.0.0.0.0 BootROM that comes with MacOS 10.14.1 does the same thing with the X5687. Appears ok at first. Fans spin up normally and no error LED's, but then no boot chime and blank screen.

Single-CPU Mac Pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^ Thank you for your effort. I am not surprised

Lou

 

[LightBulbFun]

Didn't realise this was also posted here

this is a more appropriate thread so ill copy and paste what I posted in the BootROM thread

Tested X5687 just now. Fans spin up normally, not in panic mode. No error LED's, but no startup chime and blank screen. Reseated CPU and CPU card, same result. Seems ok at first, but no startup chime and does not boot. Swapped my W3690 back in and booted right up.

Identical to what this user saw with previous BootROM. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-x5687-had-to-try-it.2115849/

If anyone has ideas for BootRom mods to allow higher multipliers, I'm willing to try.

try submitting a bug report to Apple? https://bugreport.apple.com/web/

as for BIOS mods this is the best Lead I have https://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread-Solved-Request-bios-mod-for-evga-sr-2?pid=122281#pid122281

the "DeathBringer" guy seems to really know his stuff when it comes to BIOS modding for CPU support so I wonder if its worth asking the guy about the MP5,1/X5687/X5698 situation

 

[vonkas]

...So at least for me and my setup, I can say without a doubt, the X5687 is not compatible.

Damn. Should have read this. Anyway, I'm going to try it if only to confirm your result. I also bought a 5677 (after reading this) so my effort is not too wasted.