Mac Pro's/mini's Why not add a battery?

[kappaknight]

One of the things I love most about my MBP (and all laptops really) is that when the power unexpectedly goes out, work is not interrupted. You may not have a working wifi connection, but you can at least save your work and/or choose to move to another location.

While I know there are UPS'es out there with varying degrees of good and bad, why haven't computer manufacturers add in internal batteries to desktops for the purpose of making sure work doesn't get lost or corrupted in case of power outages? It seems like a simple thing to add that serves as a insurance policy.

Apple gave us Time Machine because people aren't doing a good job of backing up data on their own - it was their solution to just make things "work" without thinking too much about it. Couldn't this be the same? Obviously not everyone is using UPS's with their setup; hopefully they're at least using surge protectors, but having an internal battery would make me like the Mac Pro/mini THAT much more.

 

[mslide]

there are UPS'es out there

That's why.

 

[iSee]

With Auto-save and versions they're actually moving in the direction where you wouldn't lose anything (well, maybe a few seconds worth of work) in the event of sudden power failure.

Of course not all software implements auto-save and versions, but hopefully most apps will get there. And it takes special care to ensure that documents won't get corrupted when the power fails while a write is in-progress. (Maybe a very limited battery or capcitor with a few seconds of power could help?) but it should be technically possible.

With all that in place, when you lose power the computer gos off immediately. But when power is restored and you start up your computer, it boots, opens all your apps, windows & documents and you're right where you were when the power failed.

Not sure how close we are to this in reality (and I don't want to test it ), but that's the dream for me. No need for the expense, weight, etc. of a big battery.

Also, I think battery-backed UPS's are OK. For a desktop computer, It's probably nicer if the battery can sit on the floor. Those things wear out, too, so it would be a pain if you had to send your computer in for servicing when the UPS wore out. Ideally, you want one that can tell your computer to shutdown (somewhat gracefully) when it is running out of power.

 

[Tutor]

Why doesn't Apple join forces with Intel to truly innovate>

A single core clocked at 129.6 GHz (4x32.4 GHz) and that never needed to throttle because as it was ramping up to that speed, the ensuing heat was siphoned off and used to generate enough electricity that began a power loop to self-power the entire system. "Voila, the perpetual heat loop in a truly kick a-- unit." Bootup electricity would function only as a catalyst. The more rigorous your use, the more backup power that can be stored. Go perfect that and give me a part of the patent.

 

[Bear]

With a battery in your computer, people might forget about the UPS requirements for other gear. After all what use is your computer if you don't have a display with power so you can cleanly save work before the battery runs out.

I also have external drives and the modem and airport base plugged in to the UPS. No need to have everything die for a momentary power loss.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Very True! All my Peripherals are on a UPS except my printers, and they are surge protected.

Lou

 

[Macsonic]

For desktops, I would prefer having an external UPS with built in Surge Protector. Laptops are mobile devices so by form function it's a necessary to have a built in battery and laptops have smaller power consumption. Desktops consume more power and best to have adequate UPS for protection and they are not mobile devices. It's also an inconvenience to be changing to new batteries like opening up the machine.

 

[deconstruct60]

One of the things I love most about my MBP (and all laptops really) ....
While I know there are UPS'es out there with varying degrees of good and bad, why haven't computer manufacturers add in internal batteries to desktops for the purpose of making sure work doesn't get lost or corrupted in case of power outages?

Power supply on MBP around 40-95W. Power supply on new Mac Pro 2013 about 450W. An order of magnitude difference. On a classic Mac Pro about 700-1000W. Now creeping up on a two orders of magnitude difference.

Now think about what those power demand increases do to the size and cost of the battery. That's why.

Obviously not everyone is using UPS's with their setup; hopefully they're at least using surge protectors, but having an internal battery would make me like the Mac Pro/mini THAT much more.

Pragmatically people are doing this (moving to systems with integrated UPS). That's why lots of folks are dumping desktops for laptops even when mobility isn't even an issue ( the laptop never leaves the house. )

 

[zorinlynx]

I've noticed a design flaw in the Macbooks actually, related to this. If you're using your machine in clamshell mode and the power goes out, the system sleeps even if you're still using it from the connected keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

The result of this is I had to plug my Macbook's power brick into the UPS to use it in clamshell mode.

 

[westrock2000]

Could also be affected by various federal laws related to product design and shipping.

From Department of Transportation. It basically boils down to more cost and development time. Let the pro's like APC deal with all that stuff

Nonspillable Batteries
UN2800 – Batteries, wet, nonspillable
Class 8 Corrosive hazardous material
You may regard nonspillable wet electric storage battery as not subject to the U.S. or
international hazardous materials regulations, if:

• the battery meets certain testing and specification requirements,
• the battery and its outer packaging are plainly and durably marked ”NONSPILLABLE“ or
”NONSPILLABLE BATTERY”, and
• the battery is packed in such a way as to prevent short circuits.

These requirements can be found in 49 CFR §173.159(d) (U.S. hazardous materials regulations)
and the ICAO Technical Instructions, Packing Instruction 806 and Special Provision A67. When
shipping a nonspillable battery or a nonspillable battery contained in or packed with equipment, it
is important to check the regulations carefully to be sure all of the requirements of the regulations
have been met.

Lithium Batteries
UN3090 Lithium batteries (including Lithium ion batteries)
UN3091 Lithium batteries packed with or contained in equipment
Class 9 Miscellaneous hazardous materials

Regulations.
The U.S. and international regulations pertaining to the transportation of lithium (metal) cells and
batteries and lithium ion cells and batteries have changed significantly over the past five years.
Tests based on UN Manual of Tests and Criteria must be performed as identified in 49 CFR
§173.185 and the ICAO Technical Instructions, Packing Instruction 903, and Special Provision
A45 . The regulations also apply to cells and batteries that are packed with or contained in
equipment (UN3091).
Most consumer-type lithium metal batteries and lithium ion batteries do not require fully regulated
markings, labels, and shipping papers. However, the ICAO Technical Instructions contain limited
marking, shipping paper, and packaging requirements for packagings that contain more than 12
batteries or 24 cells. Larger cells and batteries must be shipped as fully regulated hazardous
materials. This means that shippers of larger cells and batteries must comply with specific
labeling, marking, packaging, shipping paper, and employee training requirements.

 

[brand]

I don't mean for this to sound mean but that is one of the worst ideas I have heard of when talking improvements to desktops and workstations.

 

[kappaknight]

I don't mean for this to sound mean but that is one of the worst ideas I have heard of when talking improvements to desktops and workstations.

You need to provide a bit more info than just your opinion. Worst? I can think of tons of other stuff that'd make it worse.

Anyway, it was just a thought... it's been years since I've used a desktop but I am seriously considering the Mac Pro. Yeah, I will probably get an UPS, but I honestly have no idea which one will work gracefully with OS X. (It's not something that most reviews cover.)

 

[flowrider]

Yeah, I will probably get an UPS, but I honestly have no idea which one will work gracefully with OS X. (It's not something that most reviews cover.)

Most any good UPS with a USB Port will work with a Mac Pro. Macs haven't used the software supplied by UPS manufacturers for years. System preferences provides an Energy Saver pane, that is designed to work with a UPS and will show the the UPS status in the menu bar.

Lou

 

[DanielCoffey]

The sad thing is that the nMP will probably fit INSIDE almost any UPS designed to feed it. My SMT1000I has a ton of empty space inside it.

 

[paronga]

The sad thing is that the nMP will probably fit INSIDE almost any UPS designed to feed it. My SMT1000I has a ton of empty space inside it.

why is that sad?

honestly. its not a bad idea. but i don't want some fire hazard like a li-po battery or a heavy lead acid battery in my mac. Maybe a smallish super capacitor to store 10sec of power to save and gracefully turn off.

Like someone said, you have no display, so it needs to be full auto. Also super capacitor doesn't degrade as bad as a batery

 

[Macsonic]

You need to provide a bit more info than just your opinion. Worst? I can think of tons of other stuff that'd make it worse.

Anyway, it was just a thought... it's been years since I've used a desktop but I am seriously considering the Mac Pro. Yeah, I will probably get an UPS, but I honestly have no idea which one will work gracefully with OS X. (It's not something that most reviews cover.)

I think your topic is just fine as per forum rules, anyone is welcome to open a topic in making the forum informative and enjoyable to discuss. About your getting a Mac Pro, assuming you are referring to the tower Mac Pro. The UPS you need is recommended to have 980 watts or higher as the PSU of the Mac Pro is 980 watts. But in actual real time usage, the watts consumption may be lower than 980 watts. I read that a Smart UPS that has Sine Wave is recommended for Mac Pros though others are using the Step Up simulated Sine Wave. For video editing, Sine Wave is recommended.

 

[nick9191]

I've often thought this. Just a tiny one that lasts for 5 minutes so the power has time to come back on or failing that so the machine can hibernate safely.

 

[handsome pete]

I've often thought this. Just a tiny one that lasts for 5 minutes so the power has time to come back on or failing that so the machine can hibernate safely.

As explained above, that's what a UPS is for. The power consumption for a desktop computer is much more than a laptop, so you would need a pretty robust battery. A tiny one for only minutes? It doesn't work that way. After all, a UPS isn't designed to run a system for long periods of time to begin with. It gives you enough time to save, close applications, and power down.

 

[macfacts]

One of the things I love most about my MBP (and all laptops really) is that when the power unexpectedly goes out, work is not interrupted. You may not have a working wifi connection, but you can at least save your work and/or choose to move to another location.

While I know there are UPS'es out there with varying degrees of good and bad, why haven't computer manufacturers add in internal batteries to desktops for the purpose of making sure work doesn't get lost or corrupted in case of power outages? It seems like a simple thing to add that serves as a insurance policy.

Apple gave us Time Machine because people aren't doing a good job of backing up data on their own - it was their solution to just make things "work" without thinking too much about it. Couldn't this be the same? Obviously not everyone is using UPS's with their setup; hopefully they're at least using surge protectors, but having an internal battery would make me like the Mac Pro/mini THAT much more.

Sony has done this before in the VAIO Tap 20, so I hope you aren't that impressed when Apple does it

 

[haravikk]

I don't mean for this to sound mean but that is one of the worst ideas I have heard of when talking improvements to desktops and workstations.

Since when was a small battery to ensure a system can shut-down safely a bad idea? It's a perfectly good idea, but I generally agree with everyone that a UPS is the better option, as safe shut-down is no use if your external drives (and screens) have lost power.

It's common for high end RAID cards to have batteries so they can ensure writes are completed correctly to drives, but if you use HFS+ with journalling enabled then I'm not sure how much you need that kind of protection?

 

[kappaknight]

Sony has done this before in the VAIO Tap 20, so I hope you aren't that impressed when Apple does it

Thanks - I learned something new today.

Since when was a small battery to ensure a system can shut-down safely a bad idea? It's a perfectly good idea, but I generally agree with everyone that a UPS is the better option, as safe shut-down is no use if your external drives (and screens) have lost power.

It's common for high end RAID cards to have batteries so they can ensure writes are completed correctly to drives, but if you use HFS+ with journalling enabled then I'm not sure how much you need that kind of protection?

Thanks - I also learned something new here today. I honestly had no idea what "journaled" format means. Thought it was just a phrase they decided to use for whatever format they picked.

 

[brand]

Since when was a small battery to ensure a system can shut-down safely a bad idea? It's a perfectly good idea, but I generally agree with everyone that a UPS is the better option, as safe shut-down is no use if your external drives (and screens) have lost power.

I never said a battery was a bad idea. The OP wanted a battery inside the Mac Pro and I said that was a bad idea. A battery in the form of a UPS is the correct way to add a battery so that it can also be used to power all of the peripherals (monitor, external hard drives, etc) that would also require power. Might want to get your facts straight.

It's common for high end RAID cards to have batteries so they can ensure writes are completed correctly to drives

That is a entirely different concept than what the original poster was proposing.