Mac Pro's/mini's Why not add a battery?

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by kappaknight, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. kappaknight macrumors 68000

    kappaknight

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    #1
    One of the things I love most about my MBP (and all laptops really) is that when the power unexpectedly goes out, work is not interrupted. You may not have a working wifi connection, but you can at least save your work and/or choose to move to another location.

    While I know there are UPS'es out there with varying degrees of good and bad, why haven't computer manufacturers add in internal batteries to desktops for the purpose of making sure work doesn't get lost or corrupted in case of power outages? It seems like a simple thing to add that serves as a insurance policy.

    Apple gave us Time Machine because people aren't doing a good job of backing up data on their own - it was their solution to just make things "work" without thinking too much about it. Couldn't this be the same? Obviously not everyone is using UPS's with their setup; hopefully they're at least using surge protectors, but having an internal battery would make me like the Mac Pro/mini THAT much more. :D
     
  2. mslide macrumors 6502a

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    #2
    That's why.
     
  3. iSee macrumors 68040

    iSee

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    #3
    With Auto-save and versions they're actually moving in the direction where you wouldn't lose anything (well, maybe a few seconds worth of work) in the event of sudden power failure.

    Of course not all software implements auto-save and versions, but hopefully most apps will get there. And it takes special care to ensure that documents won't get corrupted when the power fails while a write is in-progress. (Maybe a very limited battery or capcitor with a few seconds of power could help?) but it should be technically possible.

    With all that in place, when you lose power the computer gos off immediately. But when power is restored and you start up your computer, it boots, opens all your apps, windows & documents and you're right where you were when the power failed.

    Not sure how close we are to this in reality (and I don't want to test it :eek:), but that's the dream for me. No need for the expense, weight, etc. of a big battery.

    Also, I think battery-backed UPS's are OK. For a desktop computer, It's probably nicer if the battery can sit on the floor. Those things wear out, too, so it would be a pain if you had to send your computer in for servicing when the UPS wore out. Ideally, you want one that can tell your computer to shutdown (somewhat gracefully) when it is running out of power.
     
  4. Tutor, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013

    Tutor macrumors 65816

    Tutor

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    #4
    Why doesn't Apple join forces with Intel to truly innovate>

    A single core clocked at 129.6 GHz (4x32.4 GHz) and that never needed to throttle because as it was ramping up to that speed, the ensuing heat was siphoned off and used to generate enough electricity that began a power loop to self-power the entire system. "Voila, the perpetual heat loop in a truly kick a-- unit." Bootup electricity would function only as a catalyst. The more rigorous your use, the more backup power that can be stored. Go perfect that and give me a part of the patent.
     
  5. Bear macrumors G3

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    #5
    With a battery in your computer, people might forget about the UPS requirements for other gear. After all what use is your computer if you don't have a display with power so you can cleanly save work before the battery runs out.

    I also have external drives and the modem and airport base plugged in to the UPS. No need to have everything die for a momentary power loss.
     
  6. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    Nov 23, 2012
    #6
    ^^^^Very True! All my Peripherals are on a UPS except my printers, and they are surge protected.

    Lou
     
  7. Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #7
    For desktops, I would prefer having an external UPS with built in Surge Protector. Laptops are mobile devices so by form function it's a necessary to have a built in battery and laptops have smaller power consumption. Desktops consume more power and best to have adequate UPS for protection and they are not mobile devices. It's also an inconvenience to be changing to new batteries like opening up the machine.
     
  8. deconstruct60 macrumors 604

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    Mar 10, 2009
    #8
    Power supply on MBP around 40-95W. Power supply on new Mac Pro 2013 about 450W. An order of magnitude difference. On a classic Mac Pro about 700-1000W. Now creeping up on a two orders of magnitude difference.

    Now think about what those power demand increases do to the size and cost of the battery. That's why.

    Pragmatically people are doing this (moving to systems with integrated UPS). That's why lots of folks are dumping desktops for laptops even when mobility isn't even an issue ( the laptop never leaves the house. )
     
  9. zorinlynx macrumors 601

    zorinlynx

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    Florida, USA
    #9
    I've noticed a design flaw in the Macbooks actually, related to this. If you're using your machine in clamshell mode and the power goes out, the system sleeps even if you're still using it from the connected keyboard, mouse, and monitor.

    The result of this is I had to plug my Macbook's power brick into the UPS to use it in clamshell mode. o_O
     
  10. westrock2000 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 18, 2013
    #10
    Could also be affected by various federal laws related to product design and shipping.

    From Department of Transportation. It basically boils down to more cost and development time. Let the pro's like APC deal with all that stuff :D

     
  11. brand macrumors 601

    brand

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    #11
    I don't mean for this to sound mean but that is one of the worst ideas I have heard of when talking improvements to desktops and workstations.
     
  12. kappaknight thread starter macrumors 68000

    kappaknight

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    #12
    You need to provide a bit more info than just your opinion. Worst? I can think of tons of other stuff that'd make it worse.

    Anyway, it was just a thought... it's been years since I've used a desktop but I am seriously considering the Mac Pro. Yeah, I will probably get an UPS, but I honestly have no idea which one will work gracefully with OS X. (It's not something that most reviews cover.)
     
  13. flowrider macrumors 601

    flowrider

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    Nov 23, 2012
    #13
    Most any good UPS with a USB Port will work with a Mac Pro. Macs haven't used the software supplied by UPS manufacturers for years. System preferences provides an Energy Saver pane, that is designed to work with a UPS and will show the the UPS status in the menu bar.

    Lou
     
  14. DanielCoffey macrumors 65816

    DanielCoffey

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    #14
    The sad thing is that the nMP will probably fit INSIDE almost any UPS designed to feed it. My SMT1000I has a ton of empty space inside it.
     
  15. paronga macrumors member

    paronga

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    #15
    why is that sad?

    honestly. its not a bad idea. but i don't want some fire hazard like a li-po battery or a heavy lead acid battery in my mac. Maybe a smallish super capacitor to store 10sec of power to save and gracefully turn off.

    Like someone said, you have no display, so it needs to be full auto. Also super capacitor doesn't degrade as bad as a batery
     
  16. Macsonic macrumors 65816

    Macsonic

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    #16
    I think your topic is just fine as per forum rules, anyone is welcome to open a topic in making the forum informative and enjoyable to discuss. About your getting a Mac Pro, assuming you are referring to the tower Mac Pro. The UPS you need is recommended to have 980 watts or higher as the PSU of the Mac Pro is 980 watts. But in actual real time usage, the watts consumption may be lower than 980 watts. I read that a Smart UPS that has Sine Wave is recommended for Mac Pros though others are using the Step Up simulated Sine Wave. For video editing, Sine Wave is recommended. :)
     
  17. nick9191 macrumors 68040

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    #17
    I've often thought this. Just a tiny one that lasts for 5 minutes so the power has time to come back on or failing that so the machine can hibernate safely.
     
  18. handsome pete macrumors 68000

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    Aug 15, 2008
    #18
    As explained above, that's what a UPS is for. The power consumption for a desktop computer is much more than a laptop, so you would need a pretty robust battery. A tiny one for only minutes? It doesn't work that way. After all, a UPS isn't designed to run a system for long periods of time to begin with. It gives you enough time to save, close applications, and power down.
     
  19. macfacts macrumors 68020

    macfacts

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    #19
    Sony has done this before in the VAIO Tap 20, so I hope you aren't that impressed when Apple does it ;)
     
  20. haravikk macrumors 65816

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    May 1, 2005
    #20
    Since when was a small battery to ensure a system can shut-down safely a bad idea? It's a perfectly good idea, but I generally agree with everyone that a UPS is the better option, as safe shut-down is no use if your external drives (and screens) have lost power.

    It's common for high end RAID cards to have batteries so they can ensure writes are completed correctly to drives, but if you use HFS+ with journalling enabled then I'm not sure how much you need that kind of protection?
     
  21. kappaknight thread starter macrumors 68000

    kappaknight

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    Mar 5, 2009
    #21
    Thanks - I learned something new today. :)


    Thanks - I also learned something new here today. :) I honestly had no idea what "journaled" format means. Thought it was just a phrase they decided to use for whatever format they picked.
     
  22. brand macrumors 601

    brand

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    #22
    I never said a battery was a bad idea. The OP wanted a battery inside the Mac Pro and I said that was a bad idea. A battery in the form of a UPS is the correct way to add a battery so that it can also be used to power all of the peripherals (monitor, external hard drives, etc) that would also require power. Might want to get your facts straight.


    That is a entirely different concept than what the original poster was proposing.
     

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