Mac Studio for the Long Haul?

[Tempest2084]

I have a somewhat odd question. I'm looking to get a new computer to replace my 18(!) year old PC and decided that I'm done with Windows/Linux so I'd like to switch back to Mac. I'm a person who likes to buy/build a higher end computer and use it until it dies. This really hasn't been possible in the past with Macs since Apple seemed to like to sunset hardware by denying OS updates even if the hardware was still more than capable (my 2012 Mac Mini running Sequoia via OCLP is a testament to that), but with Apple making its own chips these days I would think that they might support older models longer (this might be wishful thinking on my part though). It seems that the current wisdom is that unless you need to do major AI or photography/music work, buy the cheapest Mac Mini you can and then just buy the new model in a few years (and so on). Logically I guess this makes sense, but this sort of wastefulness is an anathema to me. For this reason I was thinking about spending the extra money up front and getting a lower end Mac Studio (the base model). Most likely after they release the newer model later this year (I hope).

For my use, a Mac Studio is overkill. I use my computer for email/surfing, light web design, streaming, and occasionally for gaming (although I haven't done that for a long time since my current computer is so old). I don't do anything taxing on memory or CPU like playing with AI, but I would like to buy a computer that I can keep for 10 years or so. The Mac Studio also has the ports I need built in (SD card reader, USB A ports, and an extra TB port) without the need for an external hub/dock. The Studio would only be $1,000 over what I was looking at for a Mac Mini which isn't the end of the world for a computer I would keep for a decade. I'm not rich enough that I can say money is no object, but an extra $1,000 wouldn't break the bank either.

Given all of this would it be silly to get a Studio over a Mini?

 

[Tdude96]

The idea of the Mac mini as disposable bothers me. I typically buy to exceed my needs (within reason and budget) for some headroom and then keep a machine until it's no longer doing what I need out of it, then move up and give away the old one as a hand-me-down to someone in need who will take care of it. The constant turnover would bother me, the potential waste would bother me.

I think your idea of getting a Studio is perfectly reasonable for what you outlined. It gives you some headroom for the future, especially since you're not doing anything crazy with it. You said it has the ports you want, whereas with the Mac mini you'd need a dock, meaning more stuff to plug in at your desk. We haven't seen Apple stop supporting any Apple Silicon yet, but it's likely that regular software support on the Studio will go on for at least awhile beyond the same-generation Mini. That's useful for a long-term machine. I don't really see any downside to going with a Studio other than the initial extra $1,000 buy-in.

 

[Tempest2084]

Do you think Apple will continue to support MacOS on the M series chips longer than they did the Intel chips? I'd like to think so since they're more powerful and Apple is the one making them but who knows?

 

[Tdude96]

You should be able to count on a minimum of 7 years of full OS updates, and in the past some computers have been able to stay on the latest version of MacOS for longer with a reduced feature set. Older MacOS versions keep getting security updates for a couple/few years, which could easily extend life to 10-12+ years. That said, I'm thinking there's a good chance of Apple Silicon extending that time somewhat, especially looking at the introduction of the MacBook Neo. It's vastly underpowered compared to any M4 or M5, and it's running on the latest OS. If they stick to their 7 years of commitment to full updates for the Neo, surely they can reasonably extend more years than that to the machines running better chips. I'd anticipate seeing active support time stretching with Apple Silicon.

 

[Tempest2084]

How loud is the fan on the studio? I've heard the Mini is pretty quiet but since the Studio has a more powerful processor and more venting I'm wondering if it will be loader even at idle.

 

[CoMoMacUser]

How loud is the fan on the studio? I've heard the Mini is pretty quiet but since the Studio has a more powerful processor and more venting I'm wondering if it will be loader even at idle.

I bought an M1 Max Studio in November 2022. It sits on my desk, and I've never heard the fan even during intensive tasks. Great machine with years of life left. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Studio.

 

[BotchQue]

I looked really hard at the Mini for awhile, like you the Studio would've been overkill for me (just Neo-level tasks plus photo editing) but by the time I added in the upgrades, and a decent dock/hub, I was within $100 of the Studio so I just sprang for that. Hoping the upgrades will continue just a week or so longer than I do.
And I've never heard the fan in mine run, yet.

 

[Ursadorable]

Mac's in general have very long usable lifespans unless you have super heavy workloads and continuously need more performance gains.

My reason for buying a Mac Studio M5 Ultra is so I don't have to replace it for at least 8-10 years.

As with all Mac's. Buy the best you can afford, because they're not very upgradable down the road (other than adding say, external storage).

 

[benwiggy]

I use my computer for email/surfing, light web design, streaming, and occasionally for gaming

I do much more than that on an M2 Pro Mac Mini. Audio rendering; DTP, illustration and photo work; font creation; music notation; Xcode app development, etc, etc. And I have no plans to upgrade it for the foreseeable.

Spend some of the extra grand on more storage, RAM and CPU options.

Apple generally does have good reasons for cutting off support for older models. Sure, they may work OK for basic tasks, but do they still perform the same under heavy conditions, in all aspects of operation? If Apple did support Macs that couldn't cope with a heavier load, then they would still get accused of deliberately running those Macs slow to force upgrades anyway!

There's much less variation between the M-series (and much reduced reliance on third-party suppliers like Qualcomm and Intel, who provided their own 'support' to Apple for their hardware for limited terms.)

OS 27 will see Intel removed, so I doubt they'd remove M1s too. The earliest they could drop support for M1s would be OS 28 (Autumn 2027): which would fit the 'usual' 7 years; though I'd hope they'd extend it. It will be interesting to see how they cut off models, e.g. whether M1s with higher cores or RAM are still supported, or not.

Assuming you buy a brand new M5, then you should expect at least 7 years of active support, and then another 3 years when you can still use the last OS with new apps before there are compatibility problems.

 

[Tempest2084]

Yeah the Studio is probably a bit of a waste for what I'd be using it for. Too bad they don't make a Mini in a Studio style case. I get Apple likes everything smaller and thinner, but the Mini is a bit too small for my tastes. Maybe leave it the size of the older Mini's and add back a few more ports? 🙂

My main excuse for getting the Studio was for the possibility of it being supported longer than the Mini but that may not be the case. I suppose that it would run the last supported OS better than the Mini, but even that's just a guess.

 

[Ray2]

How loud is the fan on the studio? I've heard the Mini is pretty quiet but since the Studio has a more powerful processor and more venting I'm wondering if it will be loader even at idle.

Depends what you’re doing. You will hear mini's pretty quickly. I’ve heard the faint sound of a fan on my M2 Max Studio twice. When running AI noise reduction in batches. I figure I will use it until Adobe no longer supports the last MacOS version it will run. After that it will replace my currently 12 year old mini as a server. I don’t need OS updates. Still running Sonoma. It not like it’s mobile and I’m logging into public networks.

 

[edubfromktown]

I bought an M1 Max Studio in November 2022. It sits on my desk, and I've never heard the fan even during intensive tasks. Great machine with years of life left. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Studio.

Same here. I purchased an M1 Max Studio the 1st day it was available (retail, from an Apple store).

It remains exceptionally quiet. Others have complained about fans running and coil whine from the power supply.

All of my Mac's and other systems, raspberry Pi's and IT appliances (firewall, Eero wifi, ...) are plugged into a couple of 1500 VA UPSs so power is generally "cleaner" for my gear.

 

[bapegg]

Normally you will get 6 years of OS upgrades and then 1-2 years of security updates after that. I have normally upgraded my Mac minis at 6 years. The sixth year is usually the last OS upgrade available. I replaced my 2010 Mini for a 2018 Mini and then replaced the 2018 with M4.

And if you get the base model, then it will usually start getting slow with the last OS upgrade.

We might see a little longer for OS upgrades now that Apple is going to drop support for Intel chips.

 

[FatLouie]

How loud is the fan on the studio? I've heard the Mini is pretty quiet but since the Studio has a more powerful processor and more venting I'm wondering if it will be loader even at idle.

I have yet to hear the fan on my Studio M4 Max, 36GB memory, 1 TB. Now, I don't beat it to death with heavy video editing. Still, it is more than I need, but I buy more for future use and life span.

If you get a Studio, I would suggest getting this stand as well: Spigen Studio Stand

You can check Amazon for other options for a stand as well.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

How loud is the fan on the studio? I've heard the Mini is pretty quiet but since the Studio has a more powerful processor and more venting I'm wondering if it will be loader even at idle.

I don't hear the fan of my M4 Mac Studio. Most times I use it for photo editing, and it sits about a foot away from my keyboard. It has a 2TB SSD/128GB RAM; I want to use it for at least ten years.

 

[icymountain]

For my use, a Mac Studio is overkill. I use my computer for email/surfing, light web design, streaming, and occasionally for gaming (although I haven't done that for a long time since my current computer is so old). I don't do anything taxing on memory or CPU like playing with AI, but I would like to buy a computer that I can keep for 10 years or so. The Mac Studio also has the ports I need built in (SD card reader, USB A ports, and an extra TB port) without the need for an external hub/dock. The Studio would only be $1,000 over what I was looking at for a Mac Mini which isn't the end of the world for a computer I would keep for a decade. I'm not rich enough that I can say money is no object, but an extra $1,000 wouldn't break the bank either.

Given all of this would it be silly to get a Studio over a Mini?

As said above, the main limit will be MacOS support.

Two ideas (one to justify either option so that both choices end up a good choice 😉):

1. If a Mini works and is vastly cheaper, you could get that, and assume you need to replace it in 7 years; while a Studio may get support a bit longer (probably not), the amortised price would be less with the Mini;

2. You mention having used not only Windows but Linux; so you could simply get a Studio, see how long Apple provides support for it in MacOS, and when support ends, just install and use Linux; that would probably let you use the Studio 5 years more or even longer, and amortised price would be less than a Mini replaced after 7 years (plus you get to have fun tinkering!).

 

[Tempest2084]

As said above, the main limit will be MacOS support.

Two ideas (one to justify either option so that both choices end up a good choice 😉):

1. If a Mini works and is vastly cheaper, you could get that, and assume you need to replace it in 7 years; while a Studio may get support a bit longer (probably not), the amortised price would be less with the Mini;

2. You mention having used not only Windows but Linux; so you could simply get a Studio, see how long Apple provides support for it in MacOS, and when support ends, just install and use Linux; that would probably let you use the Studio 5 years more or even longer, and amortised price would be less than a Mini replaced after 7 years (plus you get to have fun tinkering!).

If the Mini and Studio are most likely going to have the same amount of support then I really can't justify the cost. The whole reason I'm switching to Mac instead of staying on Linux is that I'm tired of 'tinkering', I want something that just works.

 

[icymountain]

If the Mini and Studio are most likely going to have the same amount of support then I really can't justify the cost. The whole reason I'm switching to Mac instead of staying on Linux is that I'm tired of 'tinkering', I want something that just works.

To clarify what I meant: there is no way to sure about support duration, but historically, Apple seems to phase out support on families of models based on the generation of the chips. We have not seen how Apple will do with "M" era products. If that tradition pertains, then M4 generation Mac Mini Mac Studio will have the same support end date and the same for M5 and so on. It is also possible that there is a shift with M4 Max getting a bit longer support than M4 Pro or M4. This is all speculation however, only based on observation of the past. 😉

 

[Tempest2084]

To clarify what I meant: there is no way to sure about support duration, but historically, Apple seems to phase out support on families of models based on the generation of the chips. We have not seen how Apple will do with "M" era products. If that tradition pertains, then M4 generation Mac Mini Mac Studio will have the same support end date and the same for M5 and so on. It is also possible that there is a shift with M4 Max getting a bit longer support than M4 Pro or M4. This is all speculation however, only based on observation of the past. 😉

Yeah I get that. You're probably right though. I seem to recall people complaning that their super fast Mac Pros were dropped from support because of the chip family was being phased out.

 

[bapegg]

If you want the Studio, then by all means buy the Studio. I do agree with others to not over look the Mac mini either.

Either way you can expect an average of 6 years for OS upgrades and an additional 1-2 years of security updates after that. This is all based on past experiences of owning Mac's.

Again we don't know if any of that will change with the Intel chips losing support.

 

[Tdude96]

As everyone has emphasized, no one can predict what Apple is planning, and in the past Apple has done some strange things with their decisions on which models to continue support.

For example, if you look at the 2019 Macbook Pros, the 15" and the 16" had identical CPU options, but the 15" can only upgrade to MacOS 15, while the 16" can upgrade to MacOS 26. The difference between those was in their Graphics cards, which also happens to be the biggest difference between the Pro (specced out Mac mini) and the Max (base model Studio) - significantly different graphics capabilities, including with M5.

2019 MacBook Specs:

MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2019) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

Retiring all of an Apple Silicon chip generation at the same time doesn't make whole lot of sense. It would mean, for example, the 2025 M3 Ultra being retired from updates at the same OS as the 2023 M3, M3 Pro, M3 Max. Possible, but unlikely. It makes more sense to begin limiting new features on machines that can't handle them well before finally stopping updates. In either case, whether by a limited feature set or a version of MacOS or both, the Max (Studio) should wind up with greater longevity and more features in future versions of MacOS than the Pro (mini).

Edit: fixed capitalization error.

 

[bapegg]

The iPad Pro is another example. I looked up the iPadOS 27 capability list and the iPad Pro with the A12X chip is not supported but the iPad Pro with the A12Z chip is.

When it comes to the older A series and M series chips, support for AI has a bit to do with how long those devices will get OS upgrades. And as others have mentioned GPU specs come into play.

We will just have to wait and see what Apple does.

 

[Tempest2084]

Ok another question for everyone. What issues might I run into if I use a Studio as a Plex Server in addition to my main computer? Mainly I'm curious about sleep mode issues. I know in the power settings you can do things like Wake on LAN, Never Sleep Hard Drives (for my external storage) and the like. But from what I'm reading either I'd have to always have the Studio running and never put it in sleep mode or let it sleep normally and use an app from my iphone to wake it up via Wake on LAN (Plex apparently can't do this itself for some reason). Normally I'd say just let the Studio run all the time since newer hardware is way more efficient than the older stuff I'm used to, but I fear that running 24/7 will cause the Studio to wear out much faster so I think I'd have to play with the Sleep on LAN function.


Of course having external HDDs spinning 24/7 will eventually cause them to prematurely wear out too so the whole issue may be moot anyway.

 

[SDAVE]

Ok another question for everyone. What issues might I run into if I use a Studio as a Plex Server in addition to my main computer? Mainly I'm curious about sleep mode issues. I know in the power settings you can do things like Wake on LAN, Never Sleep Hard Drives (for my external storage) and the like. But from what I'm reading either I'd have to always have the Studio running and never put it in sleep mode or let it sleep normally and use an app from my iphone to wake it up via Wake on LAN (Plex apparently can't do this itself for some reason). Normally I'd say just let the Studio run all the time since newer hardware is way more efficient than the older stuff I'm used to, but I fear that running 24/7 will cause the Studio to wear out much faster so I think I'd have to play with the Sleep on LAN function.


Of course having external HDDs spinning 24/7 will eventually cause them to prematurely wear out too so the whole issue may be moot anyway.

Why would you run into issues with a Plex server? Just disable all sleep options. I've been running Macs in certain cases 24/7 with no downtime for years.

Another option for you if you really want things to be separate, get a Mac Mini on sale and run a plex server off that.

 

[Tempest2084]

Why would you run into issues with a Plex server? Just disable all sleep options. I've been running Macs in certain cases 24/7 with no downtime for years.

Another option for you if you really want things to be separate, get a Mac Mini on sale and run a plex server off that.

Actually I'm running it off a 2012 Mini right now, but it's so old that I don't care about leaving it on 24/7. The Studio on the other hand is an expensive investment that I want to protect.

How bad is it to keep an Apple Silcon Mac on 24/7 without letting it sleep?