Mac Studio - USB Port Slow

[davidcvaldez]

Hi everyone. On a friend's advice, I bought an 2tb internal SSD drive and connected it to an enclosure. The SSD drive (a Rocket NVME 4.0) is supposed to get write speeds up to 7000 mb. I bought a high end enclosure (Orico M.2. SSD Enclosure - compatible with M.2 NVME SSD/40 gbs). I installed the SSD and mounted it via the enclosure. I clocked the speed on my front Mac Studio USB port (this year's base model) - and using Black Magic Speed test - the drive is clocking around 800mb write and 700mb read speed.

My enclosure is not as fast as the SSD, but it should be coming in near 3000 mb write speed via a USB C cable. I tried to use one of the rear "USB C/Thunderbolt 4" ports, and the enclosure/drive will not mount, although the front ports do mount. I then tested the enclose on my MacBook Pro - 13" 2019 - and the SSD drive runs at around 1800 mb a second - over twice as fast at the Mac Studio. I don't know what's going on at this point. Clearly I want as much speed as the enclosure can generate on my Mac Studio. For these slower speeds I could have paid 1/4 the cost on a lower end drive/enclosure.

Any suggestions/input would be great.

Thanks!
Dave

Below are the SSD drive/enclosure:

SSD Drive:

SABRENT 2TB Rocket Nvme PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280 Internal SSD Maximum Performance Solid State Drive (Latest version) (SB-ROCKET-NVMe4-2TB).

SABRENT 2TB Rocket Nvme PCIe 4.0 M.2 2280 Internal SSD Maximum Performance Solid State Drive (Latest version) (SB-ROCKET-NVMe4-2TB).

www.amazon.com

M.2 Enclosure:

ORICO M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure 40Gbps PCIe3.0x4 USB Type-C Aluminum Adapter, NVMe 2280 M-Key(B+M Key) External Solid State Drive Case,Compatible with Thunderbolt 3/4 USB3.2/3.1/3.0/Type C-M208-Silver

12 MONTHS FREE REPLACEMENT AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT: If there was any problem with the products from ORICO Direct Store, please contact us, you will get a free-replacement within 12 months.

www.amazon.com

 

[altaic]

Sounds like it’s connecting at 10 Gbps, i.e. USB 3.1 Gen 2x1. Make sure to use a TB 3 or TB 4 cable.

The enclosure supposedly supports TB 3 at 40 Gbps, though many manufacturers fib about the throughput since the specs are so confusing. It should be able tunnel 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0 over TB 3 for a total theoretical maximum throughput of 4*984.6 MB/s = 3938.4 MB/s (31.5 Gbps).

 

[joevt]

The original limit for Thunderbolt cited by Intel was 22 Gbps (2750 MB/s). Some manufacturers reported this as 2800 MB/s. Benchmarks have crept up to a little over 3000 MB/s (24 - 25 Gbps) in some cases.

My Sabrent 2TB Rocket NVMe 4.0 connected to a Mac mini 2018 can do 2817/2739 MB/s read/write (AmorphousDiskMark). The 1800 MB/s that you achieved suggests maybe your Sabrent doesn't have the same NVMe controller as mine. Some NVMe controllers don't perform well with Thunderbolt. I think 1800 MB/s is high enough to prove that the NVMe is connected at PCIe 3.0 x4, which means this is not an x2 connection problem.

USB speed should be ≈1060 MB/s (AmorphousDiskMark) but is usually less (800 MB/s) for Apple Silicon Macs unless you use a different USB controller such as that of a Thunderbolt 3 dock or device (connect using the downstream Thunderbolt 3 port of the device or dock).

Black Magic Speed Test usually reports lower speeds than AmorphousDiskMark.

What USB controller does the from USB ports of a Mac Studio (Max) use? Check the USB tab of System Information.app.

 

[southerndoc]

Use the back ports for Thunderbolt, and as mentioned by @altaic make sure you use a TB4 cable.

 

[J.Gallardo]

All prior answers fail at understanding that your enclosure IS NOT Thunderbolt enabled; it's just Thunderbolt compatible (because Th4 is usually able to work as USB 3.2 or 3.1 gen 2 interface). The front USB-C ports in the Studio are only USB compatible (except in the Ultra, that are Thunderbolt also)
Your enclosure works as USB 3.2 and downwards. (And macs can use just two PCI lanes in usb interface, so that 80GB/s mark is not even feasible).
I've got a similar device (NVME SSD + USB 3.2 case) and it reads around 1000 mb/s. with my i7 iMac. I think your ssd works nicely on your MacBook, and behaviour with your Studio is abnormal.
I sorry I can't point to a possible reason, but I thought it was important to understand that your enclosure is not a Thunderbolt device.

 

[joevt]

All prior answers fail at understanding that your enclosure IS NOT Thunderbolt enabled; it's just Thunderbolt compatible (because Th4 is usually able to work as USB 3.2 or 3.1 gen 2 interface). The front USB-C ports in the Studio are only USB compatible (except in the Ultra, that are Thunderbolt also)
Your enclosure works as USB 3.2 and downwards. (And macs can use just two PCI lanes in usb interface, so that 80GB/s mark is not even feasible).
I've got a similar device (NVME SSD + USB 3.2 case) and it reads around 1000 mb/s. with my i7 iMac. I think your ssd works nicely on your MacBook, and behaviour with your Studio is abnormal.
I sorry I can't point to a possible reason, but I thought it was important to understand that your enclosure is not a Thunderbolt device.

Not sure what you're talking about. The enclosure he linked is the 40 Gbps Thunderbolt version. His benchmark result of 1800 MB/s is greater than USB 3.1 gen 2 speed and therefore must be Thunderbolt.

His problems are:
1) It does not connect to Apple Silicon Thunderbolt port. Solution: use an Intel Mac or connect to a non-Apple Thunderbolt controller (such as from a Thunderbolt 3/4 dock/hub) or use a different enclosure.
2) NVMe speed with Thunderbolt is 1800 MB/s. Solution: use a different NVMe, one that supports 2800 MB/s from Thunderbolt.
3) NVMe speed with USB is 800 MB/s. Solution: use an Intel Mac or connect to a non-Apple USB controller (such as from a Thunderbolt 3 dock) which should allow 1000 MB/s.

 

[altaic]

I sorry I can't point to a possible reason, but I thought it was important to understand that your enclosure is not a Thunderbolt device.

It’s advertised as a Thunderbolt 3 device. If a legit TB 3 or 4 cable doesn’t work, than it’s simply false advertising. Get a refund, file a class action lawsuit in your jurisdiction, take down the CPC, whatever. Choose your own adventure, though I think trying a known TB 3|4 cable is probably the most sensible course.

 

[Mike Boreham]

EDIT Close reading of the link shows that that Orico is a true Thunderbolt device but is backward compatible with USB as well. It will connect to a Thunderbolt port at 40GBps, or a USB port at 10Gbps. There are not many of these dual capability devices about.

I have edited the three points I originally made accordingly:


1. "I clocked the speed on my front Mac Studio USB port (this year's base model)"

The front USB ports on the base model are USB only not TB. So the speeds he 700/800 are in the ball park.


2. "I tried to use one of the rear "USB C/Thunderbolt 4" ports, and the enclosure/drive will not mount"

The Orico should definitely have mounted when connected to these, either by USB or TB depending on cable.


3. "I then tested the enclose on my MacBook Pro - 13" 2019 - and the SSD drive runs at around 1800 mb a second - over twice as fast at the Mac Studio"

The 2019 MBP is Thunderbolt and it mounted as it should have done, so he must have used a Thunderbolt cable for this. Speed is slowish Thunderbolt (I don't think 7000MB/s is likely, my TB enclosures range from about 1500-2800)

 

[Bob_DM]

It’s advertised as a Thunderbolt 3 device. If a legit TB 3 or 4 cable doesn’t work, than it’s simply false advertising. Get a refund, file a class action lawsuit in your jurisdiction, take down the CPC, whatever. Choose your own adventure, though I think trying a known TB 3|4 cable is probably the most sensible course.

It’s advertised as compatible, not TB3/4 …

 

[altaic]

It’s advertised as compatible, not TB3/4 …

No. It’s clearly advertised as a device that supports Thunderbolt 3 @ 40 Gbps.

 

[Mike Boreham]

No. It’s clearly advertised as a device that supports Thunderbolt 3 @ 40 Gbps.

Yes but it is an unusual dual compatible device. Capable of true Thunderbolt or USB dependiing on port/cable.
have a look at the small print in the OP link.

 

[altaic]

Yes but it is an unusual dual compatible device. Capable of true Thunderbolt or USB dependiing on port/cable.
have a look at the small print in the OP link.

No, TB and USB necessarily coexist on a type C port. 100% usual.

 

[Mike Boreham]

No, TB and USB necessarily coexist on a type C port. 100% usual.

Of course, but not many true Thunderbolt enclosures will ALSO connect by USB and operate at USB speeds. Dual mode.
Drives which are pure TB will not mount at all connected to a USB-C port which does not have TB capibility. This one will, at slower USB speed.

 

[altaic]

Of course, but not many true Thunderbolt enclosures will ALSO connect by USB and operate at USB speeds. Dual mode.

False. All of them do.

 

[Mike Boreham]

False. All of them do.

I'm sorry. This is quite wrong. Drives which are pure Thunderbolt 3 or 4 need USB-C ports which are also TB protocol. They will not operate connected to a USB-C port which is only USB protocol.
USB drives will connect to a USB-C port which is TB protocol, because TB ports are backwards compatible. This is a different issue from TB only drives Which have to have TB protocol.

 

[altaic]

I'm sorry. This is quite wrong. Drives which are pure Thunderbolt 3 or 4 need USB-C ports which are also TB protocol. They will not operate connected to a USB-C port which is only USB protocol.

The enclosure has a USB type C port, which is clearly advertised as supporting TB 3. Every USB type C port on every Mac support Thunderbolt 3 or 4. Trollsplain to someone else.

 

[SpotOnT]

Check all 4 Thunderbolt ports on your Studio. Does it not mount on any of them?

It could be a controller compatibility issue (Apple Silicon I/O still needs some work) but there also have been reports of Mac Studios showing up with defective I/O ports.

 

[joevt]

The enclosure has a USB type C port, which is clearly advertised as supporting TB 3. Every USB type C port on every Mac support Thunderbolt 3 or 4.

The Mac Studio has one model with two USB type C ports that don't support Thunderbolt.
The M1 iMac has a model with two USB type C ports that don't support Thunderbolt.

Trollsplain to someone else.

What is your definition of trollsplaining? You said all Thunderbolt enclosures will also connect by USB at USB peeds. @Mike Boreham explained how that is incorrect. There are many Thunderbolt enclosures that do not support a USB connection.

Examples of Thunderbolt only devices: Anything with the older Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt controller. Anything with Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller that also doesn't have a USB to NVMe bridge chip.

 

[lcubed]

The enclosure has a USB type C port, which is clearly advertised as supporting TB 3. Every USB type C port on every Mac support Thunderbolt 3 or 4. Trollsplain to someone else.

false. my OWC Thunderbay mini 4 will NOT connect over the front USB-C ports on the M1 Studio Max

 

[altaic]

The Mac Studio has one model with two USB type C ports that don't support Thunderbolt.
The M1 iMac has a model with two USB type C ports that don't support Thunderbolt.


What is your definition of trollsplaining? You said all Thunderbolt enclosures will also connect by USB at USB peeds. @Mike Boreham explained how that is incorrect. There are many Thunderbolt enclosures that do not support a USB connection.

Examples of Thunderbolt only devices: Anything with the older Alpine Ridge Thunderbolt controller. Anything with Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller that also doesn't have a USB to NVMe bridge chip.

Eh, looks like I was wrong on that. My apologies.

 

[J.Gallardo]

Not sure what you're talking about. The enclosure he linked is the 40 Gbps Thunderbolt version. His benchmark result of 1800 MB/s is greater than USB 3.1 gen 2 speed and therefore must be Thunderbolt.

His problems are:
1) It does not connect to Apple Silicon Thunderbolt port. Solution: use an Intel Mac or connect to a non-Apple Thunderbolt controller (such as from a Thunderbolt 3/4 dock/hub) or use a different enclosure.
2) NVMe speed with Thunderbolt is 1800 MB/s. Solution: use a different NVMe, one that supports 2800 MB/s from Thunderbolt.
3) NVMe speed with USB is 800 MB/s. Solution: use an Intel Mac or connect to a non-Apple USB controller (such as from a Thunderbolt 3 dock) which should allow 1000 MB/s.

…Perhaps you’re right, but info about that enclosure is obscure, and I don’t read Thunderbolt ability anywere. They hide behind usb 3.2 using x4 pci lanes, which Thunderbolt 4 supports.
All these tags are confusing, but I suspect if an anouncer doesn’t make to put things clear. E.g, this enclosure seems to work with all kind of usb protocols… Pure Thunderbolt devices don’t even show up connected to usb…
I repeat that perhaps you’re right, but maker should explain specs much better, and I feel info provided is insufficient to understand where those 40GB/s come out from (because it’s USB actual theoretical max. speed, IF those 4xPCI can be used; and still a relatively unknown implementation).

 

[joevt]

…Perhaps you’re right, but info about that enclosure is obscure, and I don’t read Thunderbolt ability anywere. They hide behind usb 3.2 using x4 pci lanes, which Thunderbolt 4 supports.
All these tags are confusing, but I suspect if an anouncer doesn’t make to put things clear. E.g, this enclosure seems to work with all kind of usb protocols… Pure Thunderbolt devices don’t even show up connected to usb…
I repeat that perhaps you’re right, but maker should explain specs much better, and I feel info provided is insufficient to understand where those 40GB/s come out from (because it’s USB actual theoretical max. speed, IF those 4xPCI can be used; and still a relatively unknown implementation).

They claim USB4, Thunderbolt 4/3 compatibility. The benchmarks they show (3151 MB/s) can only be achieved by USB4 or Thunderbolt 4/3 so I have no doubt about that. The only thing I doubt is USB4 support because previous ORICO enclosures that showed USB4 support were just Thunderbolt Titan Ridge controller JHL7440 with JMS583 USB 3.1 gen 2 to NVMe bridge.
https://www.amazon.ca/Enclosure-Aluminum-External-Compatible-Thunderbolt/dp/B08R9DMFFT
Which means they require the USB4 host to support Thunderbolt devices. The USB4 spec does not require a USB4 host to support Thunderbolt devices. If those previous ORICO enclosures were connected to a USB4 host that did not support Thunderbolt, then they would be limited to USB 3.1 gen 2 speed at best. Those previous ORICO enclosures are not a USB4 device.

So what chips are in @davidcvaldez 's ORICO enclosure? System Information.app will show the USB to NVMe bridge chip in the USB tab when it is connected via USB. For the Thunderbolt chip, you need to look at the PCI devices in ioreg text output or use pciutils or use Hackintool to view the list of PCI devices.

40Gbps is the speed of the bits in a USB4 connection or the amount of data in a Thunderbolt 3/4 connection. Thunderbolt cable speed is 20.625 Gbps x2 = 41.25 Gbps. USB4 has slightly less bandwidth (38.78 Gbps) than Thunderbolt (40 Gbps). Only part of this bandwidth is available for PCIe data (22-25 Gbps). The rest can be used by DisplayPort (up to 34.56 Gbps or 38.9 Gbps for the Apple Pro Display XDR when it's connected to a GPU that supports HBR3 but not DSC).

A real PCIe 3.0 x4 connection (31.5 Gbps) that is not limited by Thunderbolt would allow up to ≈3500 MB/s (28 Gbps).

 

[davidcvaldez]

Sounds like it’s connecting at 10 Gbps, i.e. USB 3.1 Gen 2x1. Make sure to use a TB 3 or TB 4 cable.

The enclosure supposedly supports TB 3 at 40 Gbps, though many manufacturers fib about the throughput since the specs are so confusing. It should be able tunnel 4 lanes of PCIe 3.0 over TB 3 for a total theoretical maximum throughput of 4*984.6 MB/s = 3938.4 MB/s (31.5 Gbps).

The drive has only been able to mount w/ the front USB (?) ports on the Mac Studio. It won't mount on the Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back. I ordered a Thunderbolt 4 cable. It just arrived, but the drive still won't mount on those ports. I've used the Thunderbolt cable on the front ports, and still clocking what I believe to be USB writing speeds of 800mb.

 

[davidcvaldez]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the responses. I'm fairly tech savvy, but so much of this is over my head - particularly hardware. Quick update. That drive/enclosure hasn't been mounting to the Thunderbolt 4 ports on the back (but mounts fine on the front USB (?) ports). I ordered a Thunderbolt 4 cable hoping that would fix my dilemma. The cable came in and it still won't mount.

I'm getting fatigued trouble shooting this so I'm just going to return the enclosure and get a different one. Can anyone recommend an enclosure that should work well with my system? Something within $200 and I can find on Amazon.

Alternatively, I can also downsize this entire setup - buy a lower end SSD drive/enclosure. I'm video editing off of the drive. What speed do you think I can cut HD (1920x1080)? I suspect these lower speeds might be OK.

 

[BanditoB]

You don’t have to go this alone! You can always call Apple to get support. The fact that it works properly, or at least better, with your MacBook Pro indicates that the problem may lie with the Mac Studio. Especially the fact that it won’t mount from the TB ports and is acting USB-only.