Mac users, how did you find the Linux experience?

[09872738]

FreeBSD is not exactly unix - like: it is Unix, a direct descendant of Unix System V.

And: to some degree the latter is true; however, the display servers are very different, so in particular GUI apps cannot be ported just like that.

 

[2984839]

You mean I should install Linux on 3 partitions? That works?
I thought each partition works as its own "world", system files won't cross work between partitions.



This might be a stupid question but, if MacOS is based on FreeBSD which is Unix-like system and Linux is a Unix-like system, doesn't this mean that MacOS application should be easily imported to Linux?

It depends on the language. Many programming languages are based on the "write once, run anywhere" principle. Python is Python and Ruby is Ruby, whether it's running on Mac, Windows, *BSD, or Linux. The heavy lifting is done by the people who port the interpreters.

C is more finicky because it relies heavily on libraries provided by the OS. The POSIX standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX) was designed to help ensure commonality here. The BSDs traditionally have some C library functions that do not exist on Linux such as strlcpy(), arc4random(), explicit_bzero(), and others (and vice-versa). This can be an annoyance, but usually those of us BSD users who write C code to run on both systems will just include a copy of BSD specific functions to be compiled if on Linux, and skip compiling them if running on BSD. Since both systems are POSIX compliant, almost everything else will work without much modification.

 

[S.B.G]

You mean I should install Linux on 3 partitions? That works?
I thought each partition works as its own "world", system files won't cross work between partitions.

Yes, it works. What I described is basically the standard model for Linux OS installations. I'm pretty sure if you let the OS do an automatic install for you, it will follow the same style of partitioning.

Remember, this isn't Windows.

Here is my partition table on the laptop I'm using right now. I let MX Linux do it for me and it actually put the root and home partitions together. My desktop PC I put them separately.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

.

 

[MacBH928]

FreeBSD is not exactly unix - like: it is Unix, a direct descendant of Unix System V.

And: to some degree the latter is true; however, the display servers are very different, so in particular GUI apps cannot be ported just like that.

It depends on the language. Many programming languages are based on the "write once, run anywhere" principle. Python is Python and Ruby is Ruby, whether it's running on Mac, Windows, *BSD, or Linux. The heavy lifting is done by the people who port the interpreters.

C is more finicky because it relies heavily on libraries provided by the OS. The POSIX standard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POSIX) was designed to help ensure commonality here. The BSDs traditionally have some C library functions that do not exist on Linux such as strlcpy(), arc4random(), explicit_bzero(), and others (and vice-versa). This can be an annoyance, but usually those of us BSD users who write C code to run on both systems will just include a copy of BSD specific functions to be compiled if on Linux, and skip compiling them if running on BSD. Since both systems are POSIX compliant, almost everything else will work without much modification.

Its just a thought, if its easier to port MacOS apps to Linux(Unix-like systems), app developers should have a Linux app first before releasing a Windows app. Its just that probably the Linux market share is so small and the mentality of users being FOSS advocates is keeping developers away, and hence good software away from Linux.

Linux is a great OS for servers and as an OS for specialized devices (like POS terminals, game console emulators, smart doorbells, blah blah blah).

Linux sucks rocks as a desktop OS.

Ask a Linux desktop user how the system administration load is and you'll probably get a response with some mumbling about how it's a lot better than it used to be.

Yeah, so is Windows. Windows 10 is solid, way better than the bad old Windows 95/98 SE/NT SP2 days. The day I switched from a dual-boot Windows NT/Red Hat Linux system to a Mac running OS X 10.2 eliminated my system administration load by 95%.

Then ask a Linux enthusiast about end user documentation. They will break eye contact, mutter under their breath, and drops of sweat will start beading on their forehead.

Finally, ask them about device driver support, particularly on new graphics hardware or notebook power management subsystems.

That will pretty much end the Linux discussion right there.

Certified Linux expertise is great resumé fodder if you're trying to score some sort of corporate IT position.

However Linux on the desktop is an abject failure.

I keep hearing conflicting answers, some people say Linux is just as good as MacOS and W10, others say its much more of a hassle. I know back in the day around 2003 it had major issues with drivers and hardware compatibility, I specifically remember it had issues with wireless wifi and printer AFAIK. They say all these issues resolved today.

 

[09872738]

Its just a thought, if its easier to port MacOS apps to Linux(Unix-like systems), app developers should have a Linux app first before releasing a Windows app. Its just that probably the Linux market share is so small and the mentality of users being FOSS advocates is keeping developers away, and hence good software away from Linux.

Well - the problem lies in differences in the display servers. You cannot just write an app and take it as granted it'll run on all platforms. If you'd like to achieve that you have to use some platform independent framework, like Qt (or Java Swing).

Even then, your App might require some work.

And by and large I agree, your FOSS approach would be nice. However, Windows market share is so dominant (several times the shares of Macs/Linux/BSD combined), developing Linux/FOSS first, then porting to Mac/Windows is more often than not not worth the hassle.

 

[allan.nyholm]

@MacBH928 I'm in the choir of Linux as a desktop operating system is a mess. Not a failure as such.

There's something for everyone. That's me being diplomatic.

There's just too many Linux distros that I think, without knowing you personally, that you'll be distro-hopping for the next 6 months to a year. You might find the Linux distro that suits your taste. I'm betting that you won't find any Linux distribution that clocks in as the top dog desktop OS for he future of computing.

So many times I've tried Linux and I don't want to use any Linux distro; who's in business in 5 years time? That could be said about every company, I guess. But I do not have high hopes for the 'mom-and-pops developed Linux distro'.

As of right now two major desktop operating system-players are on the market; Windows and macOS.
If I ever were to choose to say goodbye to macOS and the Mac ecosystem I wouldn't choose Linux in any variant for my replacement to macOS. It would be Windows. That's even despite all the facepalm-inducing situations Windows puts me in.

ranting a bit here (there's a point to it all)
Also, hi-dpi on Linux(even Windows 10)? forget about it. Atleast choose a 100% dpi display and/or computer for Linux and also for Windows going forward. Ubuntu in particular has been on and off on very large scare dpi displays and lately I believe that they put back in support via, you guessed it, Terminal commands<-- the point I was making.

End of unpopular opinions.

Edit.. reading it all after posting this I realize that the facepalm-inducing comment is why Linux probably isn't as bad as Windows is.. go figure ..

Also a confession.. I actually follow Ubuntu Linux news from here https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk
And you can tell that there's absolutely no shaking hands in the Linux world.

Another naive opinion is that I firmly believe that if Linux should get any traction on the desktop OS market, they should all join forces and unite over one SINGLE idea of what Linux is.. It only gets worse. Just look at some of the recent articles on the URL above.. it looks as if a new distro is developed every few hours.

 

[MisterSavage]

So many times I've tried Linux and I don't want to use any Linux distro; who's in business in 5 years time? That could be said about every company, I guess. But I do not have high hopes for the 'mom-and-pops developed Linux distro'.

Why not pick an Ubuntu variant? I've been using Xubuntu for years and before that I used Kubuntu for years. The LTS versions have planned support for years

 

[Toutou]

MacOS is based on FreeBSD which is Unix-like system

This is all kinds of inaccurate, but captures the main reason why the following:

doesn't this mean that MacOS application should be easily imported to Linux

is actually very true. If you only use the stuff that those two platforms have in common, you can write an app (e.g. a feature-rich command line text editor) that compiles on both macOS and Linux from the same source code.
But once you go for a GUI, it gets complicated quickly.

 

[S.B.G]

This is all kinds of inaccurate, but captures the main reason why the following:

https://www.quora.com/Is-macOS-considered-to-be-a-BSD-UNIX

The OS X kernel is based in the Carnegie Mellon University Mach OS, which was itself derived from Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD) UNIX. When Steve Jobs started NeXT Inc., he recruited most of the graduate students who had worked on Mach to make the NextStep OS. Avie Tevanian became the CTO of Apple (company) after Apple bought NeXT, and Steve reascended to the CEO throne.

 

[MacBH928]

Well - the problem lies in differences in the display servers. You cannot just write an app and take it as granted it'll run on all platforms. If you'd like to achieve that you have to use some platform independent framework, like Qt (or Java Swing).

Even then, your App might require some work.

And by and large I agree, your FOSS approach would be nice. However, Windows market share is so dominant (several times the shares of Macs/Linux/BSD combined), developing Linux/FOSS first, then porting to Mac/Windows is more often than not not worth the hassle.

I understand, but my point is most apps have Mac and Windows version, it would be easier(guessing) to make Mac and Linux version since there is more common ground for both.

Why not pick an Ubuntu variant? I've been using Xubuntu for years and before that I used Kubuntu for years. The LTS versions have planned support for years

Why pick a variant in the first place, why not just use Ubuntu?
I think this is one of the main reasons why Linux is not picking up... the uncomprehending amount of variants to everything. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and we are still on the Ubuntu rhyme..the average user probably doesn't know the difference between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz on his router.

Maybe I mentioned this before, but Apple went as far as making their mouse 1-button to keep things as less confusing as possible.
[doublepost=1564165099][/doublepost]

@MacBH928 I'm in the choir of Linux as a desktop operating system is a mess. Not a failure as such.

There's something for everyone. That's me being diplomatic.

There's just too many Linux distros that I think, without knowing you personally, that you'll be distro-hopping for the next 6 months to a year. You might find the Linux distro that suits your taste. I'm betting that you won't find any Linux distribution that clocks in as the top dog desktop OS for he future of computing.

So many times I've tried Linux and I don't want to use any Linux distro; who's in business in 5 years time? That could be said about every company, I guess. But I do not have high hopes for the 'mom-and-pops developed Linux distro'.

As of right now two major desktop operating system-players are on the market; Windows and macOS.
If I ever were to choose to say goodbye to macOS and the Mac ecosystem I wouldn't choose Linux in any variant for my replacement to macOS. It would be Windows. That's even despite all the facepalm-inducing situations Windows puts me in.

ranting a bit here (there's a point to it all)
Also, hi-dpi on Linux(even Windows 10)? forget about it. Atleast choose a 100% dpi display and/or computer for Linux and also for Windows going forward. Ubuntu in particular has been on and off on very large scare dpi displays and lately I believe that they put back in support via, you guessed it, Terminal commands<-- the point I was making.

End of unpopular opinions.

Edit.. reading it all after posting this I realize that the facepalm-inducing comment is why Linux probably isn't as bad as Windows is.. go figure ..

Also a confession.. I actually follow Ubuntu Linux news from here https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk
And you can tell that there's absolutely no shaking hands in the Linux world.

Another naive opinion is that I firmly believe that if Linux should get any traction on the desktop OS market, they should all join forces and unite over one SINGLE idea of what Linux is.. It only gets worse. Just look at some of the recent articles on the URL above.. it looks as if a new distro is developed every few hours.

I agree with what you say, looking at Linux I feel like this can easily be a full (or better) replacement for Win10 or MacOS which is FOSS, but no one is taking it there. Every one is probably making his own version that works for him and his friends.

 

[jeyf]

every OS has its issues and macOS is no exception:
-Apple = over priced, low functionality, very restrictive usage...

configure a linux device to meet what ever is your intended use is. Dont be shy; most of us just surf, email, occasional word document.

 

[MisterSavage]

Why pick a variant in the first place, why not just use Ubuntu?
I think this is one of the main reasons why Linux is not picking up... the uncomprehending amount of variants to everything. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, and we are still on the Ubuntu rhyme..the average user probably doesn't know the difference between 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz on his router.

That would be fine also, especially if the concern is support years down the line. I said variant because I'm not using the main Ubuntu branch.

 

[RickTaylor]

I've only just installed PopOs (a variant of Ubunto) on a Lenovo X1 carbon. First impressions. I love the keyboard. And I like the clean interface. It will to take a long while to do see if it can become my main laptop, but I'm not in a rush, just trying it out.

I picked PopOs because it has a reputation for running smoothly on laptops, and for having some well thought out keyboard shortcuts.

 

[S.B.G]

I've only just installed PopOs (a variant of Ubunto) on a Lenovo X1 carbon. First impressions. I love the keyboard. And I like the clean interface. It will to take a long while to do see if it can become my main laptop, but I'm not in a rush, just trying it out.

I picked PopOs because it has a reputation for running smoothly on laptops, and for having some well thought out keyboard shortcuts.

It’s a very polished and stable OS. The X1 also seems like a very nice laptop.

 

[Roxy.music]

I am trying to put a so-called easy to do operation on to my external drive it is called Puppy I can,t work it out it is all the formating stuff i wish it could be straight forward like installing Windows. Is there anyone on here who can show me how to format in Gparted I have watched the videos of how to do it i just don,t get it.

 

[S.B.G]

I am trying to put a so-called easy to do operation on to my external drive it is called Puppy I can,t work it out it is all the formating stuff i wish it could be straight forward like installing Windows. Is there anyone on here who can show me how to format in Gparted I have watched the videos of how to do it i just don,t get it.

Are you just trying to format and partition the HDD?

 

[maflynn]

Is there anyone on here who can show me how to format in Gparted I have

I'm not familiar with puppy, but maybe try a different distro that is fairly automated in its install ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Roxy.music]

I am trying to put a so-called easy to do operation on to my external drive it is called Puppy I can,t work it out it is all the formating stuff i wish it could be straight forward like installing Windows. Is there anyone on here who can show me how to format in Gparted I have watched the videos of how to do it i just don,t get it.

Are you just trying to format and partition the HDD?

[doublepost=1564942862][/doublepost]The external SSD drive
[doublepost=1564942941][/doublepost]

I'm not familiar with puppy, but maybe try a different distro that is fairly automated in its install ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Roxy.music]

What one would you recomend? I did Linux Mint but it wiped my Mac os drive.so i am cautious because of that.I do like this one but it askd do i want to try or install i worried it will go straight to install without asking me where i want it to go.Pops system 76 goes sraight in to instal without asking where it will install ing same as Kubuntu.
elementary OS 5.0 Juno.I want one that will be good for novice like myself.The other one is MX .

 

[S.B.G]

What one would you recomend? I did Linux Mint but it wiped my Mac os drive.

It did that because you instructed it to. You have to be very careful when partitioning drives, especially when you want to dual-boot or prevent data loss. Always, always backup your data before performing these types of things. This can happen regardless of which OS you wanted to use whether it be Linux (any distro), Windows, BSD or another version of macOS.

 

[Mikael H]

straight forward like installing Windows.

This made me chuckle.
Have you tried installing Windows in anything but the standard “Windows gets the entire first and only hard drive” fashion? Because that way of installing Linux has been easy too, and since way before it became easy to install Windows. Try any more advanced installation options and most modern Linux distros (post 1998 or so) will fight you a lot less than the Windows installer does.

It did that because you instructed it to.

Exactly. Any operating system will bite you if you perform destructive changes without reading the dialogs properly.

 

[Roxy.music]

It did that because you instructed it to. You have to be very careful when partitioning drives, especially when you want to dual-boot or prevent data loss. Always, always backup your data before performing these types of things. This can happen regardless of which OS you wanted to use whether it be Linux (any distro), Windows, BSD or another version of macOS.

Yes i understand that now once bitten twice shy.I do back up with Time machine.But you srill don,t say what i should do to format the drive.If you write it down i would be grateful

 

[S.B.G]

Yes i understand that now once bitten twice shy.I do back up with Time machine.But you srill don,t say what i should do to format the drive.If you write it down i would be grateful

Well, I would use fdisk to do it and that means using the command line.

Based on what I perceive your level of expertise to be, and that's not a slam or anything, I would recommend you install Puppy Linux that you want on your regular computer inside a virtual machine.

VirtualBox is free and simple to use and you're not in danger of ruining your main computer.

 

[MacBH928]

It did that because you instructed it to. You have to be very careful when partitioning drives, especially when you want to dual-boot or prevent data loss. Always, always backup your data before performing these types of things. This can happen regardless of which OS you wanted to use whether it be Linux (any distro), Windows, BSD or another version of macOS.

Its confusing bceause people are use to the system of C: being the main drive. I think linux uses a system with naming like sda1 sda2 which makes it confusing, which is which.