Mac vs. PC for Engineering Major

[cmdrmac]

From my experience, I was able to use a Mac for most of my work. In fact, the Windows-only apps that I needed ran very well when I emulated Windows through Parallels.

It may be worth asking if your university is willing to give you the necessary Windows apps for use during the semester on your personal machine for free. My university provided me with most of the apps I need at no cost (e.g., Matlab, AutoCAD, Pro/E, etc.). Only catch was that they installed it and the licenses automatically expired after the semester ended.

 

[taedouni]

I recently graduated from the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor.
I would advise you to get a MBP. You want a reliable top of the line computer that suits your needs. The only software that you will probably need on your OSX partition is MATLAB (some school projects or research will require you to use your university's computer lab. However for classes your MBP will suffice.),and Microsoft Office (unless you want to use iWorks).

If you ever need windows you can use VMware Fusion and bootcamp to use windows based programs. Trust me get a MBP. At my University it seemed that half of engineering students had a Macbook Pro. The majority of my professor's used Macs.

 

[minnus]

1 more question and I know it is pretty stupid but it is theoretical. How much of a waste would it be to buy a mac and only run windows on it? I know all of apples employees say that windows actually runs better on a mac, is this true? I wouldn't ever do this, but it may give me some more information.

Thanks again.

Bear in mind that unless your university gives free Windows licenses, you will need to buy one.

People who say that Windows runs better on a Mac usually make a comparison between their brand new Mac and their aging Windows laptop. Also, since Macs require a fresh install - and Windows laptops are usually loaded with Bloatware by default, immediate performance difference is clear. It is often skewed. That said, Mac runs well, but you will lack certain hardware support, such as Optimus.

Is it a waste to only use Windows? Nah - up to you to use it however you want. I use primarily Windows. I like having OS X as an option. But - will a Windows machine treat you just as well?

Definitely. And it will likely be cheaper too.

 

[terraphantm]

Bear in mind that unless your university gives free Windows licenses, you will need to buy one.

People who say that Windows runs better on a Mac usually make a comparison between their brand new Mac and their aging Windows laptop. Also, since Macs require a fresh install - and Windows laptops are usually loaded with Bloatware by default, immediate performance difference is clear. It is often skewed. That said, Mac runs well, but you will lack certain hardware support, such as Optimus.

Is it a waste to only use Windows? Nah - up to you to use it however you want. I use primarily Windows. I like having OS X as an option. But - will a Windows machine treat you just as well?

Definitely. And it will likely be cheaper too.

Student price for Windows is pretty cheap anyway. $65. Yeah it's an upgrade license, but there are work arounds (just install it without a key and then install it again over that as an upgrade). And I think if you call you can get the full version for the same price anyway

 

[unixperience]

I graduated an EE with a CS minor, here are my thoughts

First things first, your most used programs will probably be the office suite, sure its avail on both os's but honestly, the windows version is slightly better (try adding a page break in mac vs windows, theres a few features that are equally inconvenient as well). probably matlab (mac, win, or linux), and maybe some kind of cad or simulation software, but those are iffy with getting licenses, they get pricey. like others said you will probably use lab comps for most work. I would bet you will NEED windows at least once for some random program sometime in your career. Most schools will give it to engineers for free, or if not you can do the ultimate steal for 65, but just know you'll probably want a copy of windows.


As a side note things that an aero may use, like matlab, and autocad, are avaliable on mac. and in all honesty the mac STUDENT version of matlab is the best. the linux and windows STUDENT versions are limited to 32 bit only. The mac is full 64 bit; it may not sound significant, but you can create larger arrays, and store more variables overall. You might think... when will i ever use more than 4 gigs of mem for matlab? maybe you won't but I did a LOT of image/signals processing and the computers at school, and my friends windows laptops would exceed avaliable memory, not a problem with 64 bit

bootcamp isn't a huge inconvenience.... but it sucks to switch, I really hate windows, so i'd switch out as soon as i could, waiting to reboot is a pain, vms are better. and a FREE solution is virtualbox, and with some terminal witchcraft you can get it to boot from your bootcamp partition.

I used my mac with windows bootcamp/vm (i started with virtual box, but at the time it couldn't boot off your bootcamp partition, so i switched to parallels). I used vms so i can use word (i had windows version first and didn't feel like dropping another hundred on mac version when the windows was only a few months old), solidworks, multiple embedded system programming environments, matlab, autocad, circuit simulators, and schematic layout tools in vm. I had bootcamp (which parallels let me use as my vm) and rarely natively booted into windows. In all honest, windows bootcamp sucks on mac, why? the trackpad mainly, there is no gesture support without a serious amount of hacking, and even then it is very limited. you can't even scroll left and right in windows using the trackpad!!! let alone anything else useful.

 

[Rocky244]

Is it difficult or annoying to switch between windows and mac os?

Also, I think a lot of the programs are starting to come out with mac compatible software. If I could make it through a year or two with bootcamp, I would probably be happier in the long run. If anyone has any input on this I would appriciate it.

Also, I would really appriciate any suggestions on which PC's would be good for an engineering major.


1 more question and I know it is pretty stupid but it is theoretical. How much of a waste would it be to buy a mac and only run windows on it? I know all of apples employees say that windows actually runs better on a mac, is this true? I wouldn't ever do this, but it may give me some more information.

Thanks again.

A couple things:

It's worth noting that experiences from an electrical/computer engineer will be far different than experiences from a mechanical/aero engineer such as yourself. Computer Science engineers, towards the end of their careers, will be using software that you'll never touch, and vice versa. So, stick with those who have mentioned degrees that are similar to yours (mechanical and aero).

As an aero engineer you'll need to use software you probably won't want to run on your laptop, or you'll find it easier to be in the lab anyway, as your classmates will have similar assignments and you'll want to work together, especially for group projects. Also, you'll want a larger screen than a laptop screen, which is fine if you have an external monitor, but honestly you'll find it far more convenient to just drop by the lab on the way home from class. Plus, you'll be doing more fluid dynamics, than any type of heavy CAD modeling. Fluid dynamics requires software that can run on a bagel if it had to, whereas modeling may require more intensive hardware, but that's still not to say that your rMBP couldn't handle it if you wanted it to.

Also to touch on one more thing you mentioned, for your first couple years at school you won't get too involved in any software that will require you to have a workhorse computer. As a pre-major engineer/just accepted to major you will be taking basic science and math courses, along with a ton of GEC's. Trust me, your computer will not see heavy action outside of any games you tend to play.

Get a computer that you'll enjoy using during downtime, and while lounging around the dorm. Believe me, you'll be doing a hell of a lot more of that, than you'll be using engineering software. I know very few engineers that actually use their personal laptops for their studies, and the ones I do know use macs.

I am going to be a senior, and I've had a mac all four years I've been at school, and even used it for a co-op for the company I work for now.

 

[tfannon]

GTech CS graduate here

Get the rMBP and run Parallels or VMWare. The really cool thing is you can use the bootcamp partition so if you really need the extra processing power, you can boot natively (such as to run Windows games, etc) but for 95% use just load it virtualized.

I am a Visual Studio developer who works on a pretty massive codebase. I found that the 16gb rMBP under Parallels (w/8gb dedicated to it) runs fine. The 8gb rMBP was a little constrained for me, but my project is pretty massive.

Besides, what's really important is you will look really cool in your CS classes All the ladies love the Macs and you will be the envy of the other nerds around you.

 

[SnowLeopard2008]

I'm a CE major which qualifies as an "engineering major" since I'm under the Department of Engineering at UC Davis. I see mostly Macs and very few PCs in my engineering classes. A lot of software that engineers use are Mac-compatible. I use Matlab, Mathamatic, AutoCAD and others which all have Mac versions. Worst case, you setup BootCamp or run a VM (VMware is the best).

If you have the money, Macs are the best.

 

[MaggieNoodle]

The PC will be a much better bet.

It will be much cheaper and much more powerful.
You'll appreciate the power if you get into rendering objects.
It kinda destroys the point of buying a Mac if you just use bootcamp on it.




Intel Core i7 4Ghz
12GB Corsair DIMM DDR3
Crossfire Ati Radeon 6870 (x2 GPU)
1200W PSU
1TB Hard Disk
Liquid Cooling
EVGA X58 SLI3 Hyperthreaded motherboard

 

[Spetsnazos]

I just got my engineering degree, never used a MAC before but then again I rarely used my own laptop to begin with. Why? Because there are labs at my school where I could use a computer. Most of the software cost an arm and a leg anyways so why would I even buy the student version?

Also what is "engineering" software? PSplice, SolidWorks?

Dude the engineering degree is 90% Excel, 5% Word and 5% Parametric Modeling. Anyone care to argue this?

 

[snaky69]

I'm nearly done university in mechanical engineering and I can tell you, you can probably get by with no computer at all, using the school's if you need to.

If you insist on getting your own, you can, and it can be a great and handy tool to have around. I have both MBP's in my signature below, the 2012 is my main machine and I gave away the 2008 to my girlfriend when I got it, but it still functions.

The programs I have used the most are Word, Excel, Maple and Matlab. All of these are available in OS X.

Once you get into more specific engineering programs, windows is king. 90% of CAD software is PC only. Thermodynamics programs are almost always windows only. I NEED a bootcamp partition if I am to do any serious engineering stuff, period.

I'm currently taking a graduate class in aerodynamics as an optional course, and I can tell you that most CFD(Computational Fluid Dynamics) programs run either on windows or on supercomputers running Linux.

To make a long story short, can a MBP do a good job in engineering? Yes. Is it the best tool for the job? Maybe not. Most professional line PC laptops by Lenovo or Dell will be cheaper spec for spec, have decent battery life and will run windows already, which means you will not have to buy a windows licence to run bootcamp on top of the price of the computer.

 

[Spetsnazos]

Bootcamp is pretty cheap if you're a student. Got my Win7 professional for $39.99....

Other than Matlab, Word, Excel, Powerpoint, I didn't use any other software on my home computer. All of the SolidWorks I did was in our computer lab. I have SolidWorks installed on my laptop but I never used it because most of the time I needed to be at school anyways so I'm not going to be lugging around my laptop.

As a matter of fact, my last 2 years I bought an ASUS eePC (however you spell it). It's a 10" netbook that had 8 hours of battery life. Did most of my MatLAB, Excel, etc on it. It was an awesome machine. I gave it away to a friend recently.

THere is no such thing as an "engineering" laptop. I have a rMBP because its nice to look at and I love programming on it. It runs SolidWorks flawlessly, Creo(I hate this program btw) flawlessly, MatLAB flawlessly, and VisualBasic...all flawlessly.

CFD? Like ANSYS Fluent? Meh it ran fine the last time I did it but I'm not a CFD expert so I don't know if the results even made sense. I would rather have a desktop PC run the FEA/CFD for me and not my portable laptop...but that's just me.

 

[superhrixenz]

Dude the engineering degree is 90% Excel, 5% Word and 5% Parametric Modeling. Anyone care to argue this?

The statement above is quite true. I will be graduating next Spring in Mechanical Engineering. So far these are the programs that I used for the last 3.5 years; Word, Excel, Matlab, SolidWorks, Mathematica, Creo and LabVIEW. All the engineering programs worked fine in boot camp and rMBP obviously can handle these programs flawlessly.

 

[dukebound85]

I just got my engineering degree, never used a MAC before but then again I rarely used my own laptop to begin with. Why? Because there are labs at my school where I could use a computer. Most of the software cost an arm and a leg anyways so why would I even buy the student version?

Also what is "engineering" software? PSplice, SolidWorks?

Dude the engineering degree is 90% Excel, 5% Word and 5% Parametric Modeling. Anyone care to argue this?

The statement above is quite true. I will be graduating next Spring in Mechanical Engineering. So far these are the programs that I used for the last 3.5 years; Word, Excel, Matlab, SolidWorks, Mathematica, Creo and LabVIEW. All the engineering programs worked fine in boot camp and rMBP obviously can handle these programs flawlessly.

I don't quite agree from my time in mech engineering (2003-2008)
While office was used alot, I would say it was more like (in terms of general programs used)

Mathcad/matlab: 30%
ProE/CFD Programs: 30%
Office Products :40% with Word, Excel, and PPT all being about equal in usage

However, the math and modeling programs were really only done on the school lab machines as they are 1) alot more capable, and 2) have the licenses to run this expensive software

My personal machine more or less did the office work and for that, you do NOT need a high end laptop. I would argue that you don't have to have a personal machine in college at all as most engr labs are 24/7 facilities. But if you do, it is for convenience but you will NOT be realisitcally running high end engineering software on your personal machine largely out of cost reasons and also due to performance reasons.

I am a current grad student (in my 3rd year) and have been using a 2009 macbook and recently got a base 13 mbp for my own needs and it works great. Just some perspective

Regarding the rmbp being able to run Matlab and ProE type programs. There is a reason your school has dedicated super computers and high end workstations. A laptop can't simply compete aside from doing basic hw assignments. Once you start doing "real" work, you don't want to have your laptop be your main workhorse

 

[Spetsnazos]

I don't quite agree from my time in mech engineering (2003-2008)
While office was used alot, I would say it was more like (in terms of general programs used)

Mathcad/matlab: 30%
ProE/CFD Programs: 30%
Office Products :40% with Word, Excel, and PPT all being about equal in usage

However, the math and modeling programs were really only done on the school lab machines as they are 1) alot more capable, and 2) have the licenses to run this expensive software

My personal machine more or less did the office work and for that, you do NOT need a high end laptop. I would argue that you don't have to have a personal machine in college at all as most engr labs are 24/7 facilities. But if you do, it is for convenience but you will NOT be realisitcally running high end engineering software on your personal machine largely out of cost reasons and also due to performance reasons.

I am a current grad student (in my 3rd year) and have been using a 2009 macbook and recently got a base 13 mbp for my own needs and it works great. Just some perspective

Regarding the rmbp being able to run Matlab and ProE type programs. There is a reason your school has dedicated super computers and high end workstations. A laptop can't simply compete aside from doing basic hw assignments. Once you start doing "real" work, you don't want to have your laptop be your main workhorse

yeah I ran MatLAB, ProE/Solidworks, etc quite a bit also but it always felt like World+Excel is where I spent most of my time. In SolidWorks it doesn't take very long to design the parts you're going to model, and hitting the simulation button after you've figured out your boundary conditions took 5 seconds. I guess large displacement solutions take awhile but I only ran that once on my home laptop and never again...pointless, just have it run on my school computer which calculated 30x faster.

I got a MechE engineering degree as well and it always felt like I needed to be at school anyways because most of my projects were group related...Used my personal laptop for random BS and Excel/PPT/Word.

Can't count the number of pointless lab reports I wrote that involved creating insane numbers of Excel sheets...ugh...

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In summary I just want to know ONE program that a PC laptop can run that my rMBP cannot.

Bootcamp is $39.99, if you're buying a mac to begin with you shouldn't cheapskate on a fairly cheap version of Win7.

I can switch to Bootcamp right now and pull up my gigantic FSAE car model in Solidworks and FRAPS the whole thing to show that this machine does not stutter AT ALL.

 

[dukebound85]

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[/COLOR]In summary I just want to know ONE program that a PC laptop can run that my rMBP cannot.

Bootcamp is $39.99, if you're buying a mac to begin with you shouldn't cheapskate on a fairly cheap version of Win7.

I can switch to Bootcamp right now and pull up my gigantic FSAE car model in Solidworks and FRAPS the whole thing to show that this machine does not stutter AT ALL.

I don't think there is any program but you can certainly get a capable pc laptop for cheaper than a rmbp. However for me snd I wouid imagine most, my laptop is not just for school and I love running OSX and whatnot so I don't mind paying a bit more for a machine I want (though I do have a base mbp now haha)

Bootcamp is free. Or are you talking about the windows license? If so, most schools give it away for free via the MSDN program (different than student pricing of software say through the student center, at least at my university). Something to look into but I have gotten xp, vista, 7 and 8 for free via MSDN (as well as say Visio and project). Sadly Office is not part of the program

 

[Spetsnazos]

I don't think there is any program but you can certainly get a capable pc laptop for cheaper than a rmbp. However for me, my laptop is not just for school and I love running OSX and whatnot so I don't mind paying a bit more for a machine I want (though I do have a base mbp now haha)

Bootcamp is free. Or are you talking about the windows license? If so, most schools give it away for free via the MSDN program (different than student pricing of software say through the student center, at least at my university). Something to look into but I have gotten xp, vista, 7 and 8 for free via MSDN (as well as say Visio and project). Sadly Office is not part of the program

yeah I meant Windows license.

My uni didn't have a MSDN program but I went through Microsoft and got the student edition for $39.99...I won't complain...most of my books were in the $200 range.

 

[brentsg]

I find it amusing people think they need fast computers in college. You don't. All you need one for is writing reports and presentations really in addition to any entertainment you do with the machine

I laugh about this as well. The best ones are the posts that lay out a top-end system and ask the forum if that's "going to be enough".. ha.

My computer was a lot more useful in grad school but even still, it was generally better to remote into a workstation on campus.

 

[AppleMacFinder]

Is it difficult or annoying to switch between windows and mac os?

If you have Virtual Machine (e.g. Parallels), you can switch in less than 1 second with a simple gesture!
Very convenient to use Mac and Windows at the same time, and no reboot required.

About performance decrease - check out my benchmark of Parallels Desktop 7 here:

http://forum.parallels.com/showthread.php?t=208365

Now, there is Parallels Desktop 8, so the performance should be even better.
And VMWare Fusion 5 should be good as well, but I haven't tested it.

As you see, the performance difference between VM and bootcamp is not significant nowadays.
You just need to have 2x more RAM.

 

[Mercmanman]

My daughter just started engg. She runs a rmbp 13 i7 512gb SSD. VirtualBox is a free VM from Oracle and is amazing. Windows runs in a VM and does it all including visual studio and CAD packages for her courses. I do SQL development with visual studio and SQL server on my new rmbp 13 with Win 7 in a virtualbox VM. Flawless. Get the rmbp 13 with an i7 and 512 gb SSD and you can run everything you will need for four years.....and enjoy the awesome screen for all those long nights.

 

[kothrush]

Aero graduate

Mac would be perfectly fine for Aero program. All Macs are Intel processor, so to switch between Windows and OS X is painless. You can either bootcamp or use virtual machines if you really need to use windows for certain specific tasks.

Also, like many mentioned, you have your university computer lab for heavy (like running simulation/CAD etc) tasks. So, most used software on your personal computer would be things like MS office and Matlab/Mathematica. You might also need fortran for some CFD and senior year FEA class. Fortran compilers are available for free on OS X. Do FEA in the university computer lab.

I did most of my Ugrad and grad in Aero with PPC Mac and it was still better than using windows machine !!

PS: no need for rMBP, a good 13" MBA or MBP would works fine for you. Of course, if $$ is not an issue then go for rMBP.

Hey guys this is my first post on this site and I'm looking for some insight regarding what type of laptop to buy for college.

I'm going to be attending UWashington next year as an incoming freshman. I am pre-engineering with hopes of getting accepted to the aero department there. Too be honest, I would prefer to buy a mac (probably the base rMBP); however, if the machine cannot run the programs (or the programs aren't made for mac OS) necessary to complete my engineering classes, I won't be able too.

I understand this is a mac board, and that most of you are openly biased towards apples products, but I came here specifically because I know there will be more insight than a PC board. You guys buy macs because you love them, and I would really appriciate it if you would ease my concerns and sell me on a mac! Also, I have to convince my mom that a Mac won't cause any problems that a PC wouldn't.

Thanks!

 

[Ccrew]

People on these forums think they need to buy a machine to run engineering apps

You don't

It depends on the school.

Daughter is in Aero Engineering @ UVA. They won't even support a Mac for their engineering department, nor even VMWare on a Mac. Windows only.

OP, check with your school. Her biggest application is a bunch of the Autocad apps that won't run on Mac, and MathCad which is supplied by the school, both of which require Windows.

 

[locoboi187]

*cough* piracy is the way *cough*

 

[Sahee]

Macs would give you a disadvantage, get yourself a lightweight windows machine, even a Pentium Processor would run all programs just fine. I have a Thinkpad Edge 13 (13 inch laptop), it did only cost me about 480€ and it weights about the same as the macbook air while it can be customized (Battery, RAM, SSD), the battery lasts up to 9 hours depending on your usage and it can be swapped without opening the case. It can even run the latest games on low/medium in case you think that that's important, as it is driven by a full voltage i3 processor.

Thinkpads have about the best keyboards in the industry and the touchpad is not that bad either.

The "Thinkpad Edge E330" is all you would need... and its the perfect device for a student.
...of course, if you want to be flashy get yourself a fancy macbook and install windows on it, but macs are not running great on windows, touchpad and battery life sucks (even with windows 8).

...one last thing: You can attach the Thinkpad with VGA and HDMI to the external monitors in your classrooms and get more workspace (2 displays)... if you carry a Macbook you would need Adapters for this.