Exactly. And who didn't see the potential for this happening 15 years ago? After Steve announced that they were secretly running Macs on Intel since Puma, and then after they announced the first Ax chip, I immediately thought they were probably already running Macs on their own. There's no question in my mind really.
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Mac With Apple-Designed Arm Processor Coming in First Half of 2021
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Exactly. And who didn't see the potential for this happening 15 years ago? After Steve announced that they were secretly running Macs on Intel since Puma, and then after they announced the first Ax chip, I immediately thought they were probably already running Macs on their own. There's no question in my mind really.
Article needs a "Kuo: " prefix.
Reads like Apple announced this at first.
Reads like Apple announced this at first.
A Developer Transition System in the form of an iMac may be used.
My iMac is more than 7 years old. I may opt for the first ARM iMac.
My iMac is more than 7 years old. I may opt for the first ARM iMac.
For how long have I been calling this?
This will enable fantastic new form factors and higher performance than what Intel can give us, not to mention regular iterative improvements (unlike 14-nm++++)
This will enable fantastic new form factors and higher performance than what Intel can give us, not to mention regular iterative improvements (unlike 14-nm++++)
My brain read this as something Apple had announced and was due in 2020, not 2021. First part, I blame Mac Rumors, second part, I blame my brain which is clearly desperate for a new ARM-powered ultrabook like the 12" MacBook or 11" MacBook Air.
Apple using their own ARM-based CPUs has been rumoured for years and it doesn't take a genius to realise what the benefits could be.
Apple using their own ARM-based CPUs has been rumoured for years and it doesn't take a genius to realise what the benefits could be.
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Even Apple / TSMC can't defy the laws of physics. Eventually they, like Intel, will come up against a wall.
10 years ao this would've excited me. Of late, their quality has been a bit lacking. Fingers crossed though because it's not like they often undo something once they start down a road.
I wonder if the ARM chip will be a "co processor", capable of running native code for better power consumption?
Getting rid of options to run x86 would be too drastic a change IMHO. (I'd prefer an AMD option)
Getting rid of options to run x86 would be too drastic a change IMHO. (I'd prefer an AMD option)
Intel hit the wall three years ago. I'll take my chances.
As for where the fundamental wall is, we're a long way from it. (I've been hearing since 1995 that we were about to hit it. As a CPU designer I lived through several wall-jumping design paradigm shifts myself, and there have been a couple more since I left. We still have crazy stuff like CML, III-V semiconductors, diagonal routing, etc. to play with, and those are just the silliest ideas.
Windows is also making an ARM transition so I wouldn't be too worried.
Apple saw most of its explosive growth after they introduced x86 support in their macbooks. Not sure how well they'll do with this.
While ARM looks to be really nice and efficient and quite fast, I do wonder if it's really worth giving up the compatibility.
While ARM looks to be really nice and efficient and quite fast, I do wonder if it's really worth giving up the compatibility.
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Apple has twice before shifted Mac to new CPU architectures without such "co processors." Wasn't too drastic then, not too drastic now.
Finally. Intel hasn't done anything in a solid three years. This will get them invigorated, thus far they've only had to stay even or a step ahead of AMD, which hasn't been hard. Of course I'm assuming it will be ARM, but I think that's probably going to be true considering the rumors coupled with this news. Going another route just wouldn't make sense.
Pros:
- Faster, probably a profound performance increase. I bet 20% with more power and cooling.
- Most likely would be cheaper for Apple to produce than to buy from Intel.
- Most games on iOS/tvOS will likely appear on MacOS. This could be a big deal.
Cons:
- No more dual boot. Looks like we're confined to virtual machines. Meh, it was a good run. I'll keep an older MBP or iMac around and just have it boot straight into Windows.
- Will likely require software rewrites, which took years for some apps when x86 replaced PowerPC. You'll see hundreds of small projects get abandoned.
Questions:
- If it won't process the x86 instruction set, will there be an emulator?
- What about graphics? Will it do both, like iPhone/iPad?
- Will this be the big OS change to MacOS XI or some other brand?
So exciting! I don't understand the negative nellies here, it may come with a price and will be painful for 2-3 years like the PowerPC transition was, but in the end it will be extremely positive.
Pros:
- Faster, probably a profound performance increase. I bet 20% with more power and cooling.
- Most likely would be cheaper for Apple to produce than to buy from Intel.
- Most games on iOS/tvOS will likely appear on MacOS. This could be a big deal.
Cons:
- No more dual boot. Looks like we're confined to virtual machines. Meh, it was a good run. I'll keep an older MBP or iMac around and just have it boot straight into Windows.
- Will likely require software rewrites, which took years for some apps when x86 replaced PowerPC. You'll see hundreds of small projects get abandoned.
Questions:
- If it won't process the x86 instruction set, will there be an emulator?
- What about graphics? Will it do both, like iPhone/iPad?
- Will this be the big OS change to MacOS XI or some other brand?
So exciting! I don't understand the negative nellies here, it may come with a price and will be painful for 2-3 years like the PowerPC transition was, but in the end it will be extremely positive.
Me thinks those are great news and will in the long term benefit the platform.
interesting times.
i'm still skeptical that an ARM processor performance on a desktop or workstation. but this would be perfect fro the MBA and the like.
i'm still skeptical that an ARM processor performance on a desktop or workstation. but this would be perfect fro the MBA and the like.
Ridiculous and baseless conjecture. It'll be a Mac running Mac apps.
WWDC 2020 introduces the API's etc. to make apps work on ARM for the Mac.
December 2020 or more likely March 2021 for the product.
ARM will be fantastic on desktops and workstations, just like every other RISC architecture before it.
If you are willing to provide a desktop-style cooling solution (i.e. heatsink and fan) there's absolutely no reason ARM can't own x86-64.
I think it's a higher number than you think. From web developers who must test on multiple platforms, to the family who can only afford one computer. Gaming (not hardcore) for kids and parents who bring work home.
Granted MS Office is pretty interchangeable now.
As stated elsewhere, it better have amazing instruction translation speed. RISC to CISC translation was horrible in the PowerPC days.
Short answer: it depends what you use a Mac for.
If you use the latest software from developers that already have a good presence in the iOS or Mac App Stores, then this transition will likely be relatively easy for you as long as you aren't an early adopter. Give it some time, and it will be seamless.
If you're the kind of user that has open source software, or generally gets your software from outside of any app store, or uses legacy software, this transition will probably suck.
The question isn't whether ARM can run everything (it can), it's whether developers will port everything to ARM. The answer to the latter isn't clear yet. Historically, developers have made a ton of mobile software (e.g., smartphone apps) for ARM. This is because Intel never had a meaningful presence in the mobile processor market. There has been some success for tablets, but only on iOS because Microsoft and Google have generally failed to get developers to make ARM tablet software on their platforms. All attempts to get developers to make ARM software for desktops and laptops has so far generally failed. Will Apple's switch finally be the catalyst that gets this going? We'll see.
As always, being an early adopter will probably be a headache. Look at the history of Apple's PowerPC to Intel transition. They didn't really hit their stride until a few generations in. First-gen ARM Macbooks will probably need to be replaced the soonest. If you want bang-for-buck and longevity, avoid the first and probably second generation of ARM Macs.
For both hardware and software reasons, I'd really say the average user should wait two years after the transition before making the switch to ARM.
The biggest implication will be the loss of support for legacy software. As a random example - there are a handful of apps for MacOS that support burning DVDs (yes, some people still do this). I am not confident the developers of those apps will re-write their apps to support ARM because as you can image the demand is very low. So it's highly unlikely that ARM Macs will ever support those apps. As another example - I have an open source app that converts one obscure file type to another. I am almost sure that app, which is really made for Linux, will never be ported to ARM.
The other major implication, and it has only been rumored, is that Apple will lock down MacOS like they have locked down iOS during the transition to ARM. In other words, MacOS will no longer allow apps to be installed from outside the official App Store. This will really turn off some developers from making software for Macs. Again, this is a rumor, but one that I consider likely.
It won't be a proper desktop/laptop. Hard as Google has tried, nobody considers ChromeBooks to be proper desktops/laptops. This will be the same.
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Makes too much sense. No use holding onto Intel as the power per watt has been catching up for years now. Interested to see where this goes.