MacBook Air 13. I5 or i7?

[Aylan]

I have always said this: If you know the difference between a dual core Intel i5 and i7 and you still feel like you want/need the i7 then get the i7 and do not listen to anyone else.

Truthfully, most people have no idea what the difference is, hence the 3 page thread on i5 vs i7. A faster processor with extra cache will always be faster but in this configuration, the difference that most people will notice is quite small, unless you are doing CPU intense tasks for a measurable amount of time (more than 1 minute, such as rips, renders, compiles, etc.)

Save the $ and get the 256GB SSD, that upgrade will double your write speed!

 

[ZBoater]

You two are utterly hilarious ZBoater and mattferg. I think sitting down together and having a beer with Obama would do you both a world of good.

Ummmmm, ewwww no. I'll buy mattferg TWO beers if we can skip Obama...

 

[zachusaf]

The way I look at it, you have 3 items: the SSD, memory, and processor.

2 of those items are not upgradeable once the unit leaves the factory. (memory and processor).

Spend the money to upgrade the processor and memory; upgrade the SSD later when its convenient, and hope you have the added benefit of SSD price reductions and technology advances.

 

[DisplacedMic]

The way I look at it, you have 3 items: the SSD, memory, and processor.

2 of those items are not upgradeable once the unit leaves the factory. (memory and processor).

Spend the money to upgrade the processor and memory; upgrade the SSD later when its convenient, and hope you have the added benefit of SSD price reductions and technology advances.

This is not an unreasonable position, but I disagree. First, to my knowledge there isn't a SSD available for the MBA yet. Now that being said, presumably there will be - probably sooner rather than later. Second, I think the first upgrade for most people would be the SSD, followed by the RAM and then the CPU. Some people absolutely do not need the extra space so you can choose for yourself, but I will say that the 256 SSD has faster write speeds than the small drive so in addition to the added space, that is probably going to be your biggest performance increase right there.

 

[mattferg]

1. Is there a chance that you will come into situations where the power of the i7 comes in handy? (e. g. photo / video editing, software development, gaming, etc. - everything could also be done in a fine way with the i5, but will be snappier with the i7).

Just my two cents

SchodMC

Sorry Schod, but this is incorrect. Only high-intensity stuff like editing and software development will be snappier with an i7, not everything. As I said before, it's a case of the i5 being able to do everything that the i7 can do until it reaches it's max frequency, as such only high intensity stuff will be faster.

Especially with gaming, the i7 adds no extra benefit whatsoever as the bottleneck in speeds is the GPU.

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See, this is your epic fail. Presuming to make these blanket statements that apply to everyone. I could afford a rMBP. I didn't get one. Why? For ME, it was size. For someon else, it may be something else. Just because I dropped $2000 on a MBA, doesn't meant I need to "just get" anything else. I got what I wanted. And I got it with the 512GB SSD, which I assume meets with your disapproval too?

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Bravo! Very well put. +1

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There's a tremendous amount of i7 envy that has clouded some posts. Typically reviewers like Anandtech tend to be more objective than the guy who bought an i5 and wishes he had gotten an i7, then latches on to every little comment or whisper about fan noise, heat, or battery life to justify their purchase. It's sad to read sometimes, really.

Fan noise is very subjective, as is "heat on my lap" (vs a REAL temp monitor), as is my unofficial battery test. I personally trust a professional reviewer more than an anonymous Macrumors poster. But that's just me.

No, I totally approve of the 512GB SSD.

There's a tremendous amount of misinformation about how the technology inside our Macs work on this forum, and if you think my opinion is down to i7 envy (which BTW, I had the money to upgrade to and chose not to, so I could spend it on other things) you're seriously misguided.

The fact remains that for the HUGE portion of MBA users that do not do high intensity CPU tasks, which judging by this thread seems to be MOST PEOPLE (including yourself, ironically), they do not nor will ever need the i7. The i5 can match it in pretty much anything, and including the anand review there are various sources across the internet that state this view. As such, with users who don't do high intensity tasks, upgrading the RAM and SSD is a much better way to future proof their devices. Eliciting a blanket statement recommending one upgrade is what YOU do in pretty much every one of these threads.

What there does seem to be emanating from you is a need to justify wasting $150 on performance you don't need. As such you seem to feel the need to make others think they should spend it too. I guess your wallet really misses that $150

And as for the battery life issue, I've stated facts before that the anand review supports and you completely dismiss them, so I know who's latching onto ideas here.

 

[magbarn]

Mattferg, given you routinely espouse that we don't need the i7, have you actually compared the i7 and i5 side-by-side? Even loading up web pages like facebook - which a large percentage of the users here use - there's a notable difference in how fast the i7 MBA will render the website vs. the i5. Not saying the majority of here need the i7, but there is difference in speed in many everyday tasks.

 

[ZBoater]

... MOST PEOPLE (including yourself, ironically), they do not nor will ever need the i7. The i5 can match it in pretty much anything, and including the anand review there are various sources across the internet that state this view....

What there does seem to be emanating from you is a need to justify wasting $150 on performance you don't need..

What I find fascinating is how presumptuous you are in your statements.

"The i5 can match it (the i7) in pretty much anything..."

ROFL!!! Good one!

And thanks for setting me straight on what I need and don't need. I appreciate that. Really.

 

[mattferg]

What I find fascinating is how presumptuous you are in your statements.

"The i5 can match it (the i7) in pretty much anything..."

ROFL!!! Good one!

And thanks for setting me straight on what I need and don't need. I appreciate that. Really.

Again, fails to rebuke any of my points, and just resorts to childish ridicule. I think it's become obvious here who's got a personal stake in this.

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Mattferg, given you routinely espouse that we don't need the i7, have you actually compared the i7 and i5 side-by-side? Even loading up web pages like facebook - which a large percentage of the users here use - there's a notable difference in how fast the i7 MBA will render the website vs. the i5. Not saying the majority of here need the i7, but there is difference in speed in many everyday tasks.

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. I've just replied to a fellow who's messaged me asking what CPU he should go for, and I've recommended the i7 because for the stuff he does, he will actually notice the difference (video editing). I've compared the two side by side, and yes, there's no noticeable difference whatsoever between the i5/8/256 and the i7/8/256 in everyday tasks. Anything you see is purely psychological.

 

[fark]

Again, fails to rebuke any of my points, and just resorts to childish ridicule. I think it's become obvious here who's got a personal stake in this.

And continuing to post long after you made your point isn't childish? Yeah, right.

 

[magbarn]

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. I've just replied to a fellow who's messaged me asking what CPU he should go for, and I've recommended the i7 because for the stuff he does, he will actually notice the difference (video editing). I've compared the two side by side, and yes, there's no noticeable difference whatsoever between the i5/8/256 and the i7/8/256 in everyday tasks. Anything you see is purely psychological.

I guess some of us here will agree to disagree. I had 2 identical machines save for the cpu, same 8gb of ram, same Samsung 256gb, heck even both of the 11" had LG screens, and again and again I compared the 2 side-by-side. The i7 finished browsing, brought up iPhoto pics faster, rendered in Lightroom faster. I DESPERATELY wanted to keep the i5 to save a few bennies, but ended up returning her as she was definitely slower. I used to have these similar arguments when I got my 2012 rMBP and many of us went back and forth about screen 'lag' between the cMBP/rMBP when scrolling. To this day, the 2012 cMBP still has a much smoother Safari experience for me. I guess I'm one of the gamer 'types' that definitely notice the difference between 60 fps/ 30fps, whilst a fellow friend of mine can't tell the difference at all.

 

[ZBoater]

....The i7 finished browsing, brought up iPhoto pics faster, rendered in Lightroom faster...

Yes, but its all in you head. You are imagining it. Return the i7, get the i5, and spend the $150 in a psychiatrist session...

Which brings up the age old question - if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[mattferg]

I guess some of us here will agree to disagree. I had 2 identical machines save for the cpu, same 8gb of ram, same Samsung 256gb, heck even both of the 11" had LG screens, and again and again I compared the 2 side-by-side. The i7 finished browsing, brought up iPhoto pics faster, rendered in Lightroom faster. I DESPERATELY wanted to keep the i5 to save a few bennies, but ended up returning her as she was definitely slower. I used to have these similar arguments when I got my 2012 rMBP and many of us went back and forth about screen 'lag' between the cMBP/rMBP when scrolling. To this day, the 2012 cMBP still has a much smoother Safari experience for me. I guess I'm one of the gamer 'types' that definitely notice the difference between 60 fps/ 30fps, whilst a fellow friend of mine can't tell the difference at all.

Oh no, for stuff like rendering lightroom I will completely agree with you that the i7 does it faster. That's what it's for - people who do high intensity CPU tasks like photo/video editing, or programming. However this really isn't everyday daily use for most people, and as such doing light everyday tasks the i5 and i7 are identical. I've done tests browsing and opening documents and they're identical, but yes I agree for rendering and the like the i7 is definitely a better choice You made the right call.

When it comes to the average end user though, who's just typing word documents and browsing the web, the i7 isn't going to make any difference whatsoever though And the $150 is best saved. Even for gaming it's a waste, as all the benchmarks have shown the $150 upgrade gives you 7FPS more, max. And that's not 7FPS like 18-25 where it could be useful, that's 7FPS in the 30+ range where it doesn't make much difference. I WISH it was a 30FPS increase, I'd pay for the i7 in a heartbeat.

Apologies if my position has confused you, I'm arguing against ZBoater who seems to recommend the i7 to everyone who has $150 to spare, over and above RAM and SSD, which is a terrible stance to have. He doesn't even use the performance.

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Yes, but its all in you head. You are imagining it. Return the i7, get the i5, and spend the $150 in a psychiatrist session...

Again childish responses with no rebuke to my points. Your wallet must really miss that $150.

 

[mr.bee]

what a horrible discussion.

the i7 is faster, get over it. psychological statements my ....

do you need 100 horsepower or 120 horsepower? both cars will do the same job. will you notice it when you ride in a city at 30km/h? very slightly, it will not maximize the engine output for both.
will you notice it on a highway? yes.

what do you need to buy? whatever is your choice. don't start on what's needed or not or I'll cast you back to the days of no electricity. Electricity is not 'needed' either to live <_<

And yes I'm very interested in the exact performance difference between the two, because of the impact when working with an external screen. And the Airs in the Apple shop didn't blow me away.

 

[AXs]

Yea I am noticing the constant appeal to ridicule as well, especially how the emoticon at the end is meant to add strength?

Anyways, the bottom line is, it is $150 to get to i7. No big deal right? Why not get it even if you don't need it?

Oh wait, then it is 'just' another $150 to get to the base 13" Retina. Might as well right?

Wait wait, hold on a second... $150 on top of that and you'll get a 256GB SSD instead of base 128GB 13" Retina. Hold on now, that's surely better, right?

But Wait! $150 more and you're going to get a 15" Pro! woah, why settle for a entry level laptop when you can get a 15" Pro ? Bigger screen, faster, dedicated graphics!

Wait, before I swipe your card.... think about it, BECAUSE ANOTHER $150, you can get a 15" Retina Pro! How amazing is that? JUST another $150 - RETINA!

You know what... since we're already here- lets add ANOTHER $150, and JUST $150 more on top of that $150... and we're going to get Apple's top of the line 15" Retina Pro.

Thank you for spending JUST $150 to get what you want.
-Apple

----
One of the first things I learnt once I had to spend my own income, is that there will almost always be "just a biiiit more" to everything in life. It's the biggest propeller of debt.

Always spend less than your budget, not exactly your budget, and definitely NOT jusuust a 'bit' more.

There are always unseen expenses that will stretch your purchase. Spend about 10-20% less than your budget, and you'll end up spending your budget for the 'complete' product/service.

-AXs, out

 

[SchodMC]

Sorry Schod, but this is incorrect. Only high-intensity stuff like editing and software development will be snappier with an i7, not everything. As I said before, it's a case of the i5 being able to do everything that the i7 can do until it reaches it's max frequency, as such only high intensity stuff will be faster.

Especially with gaming, the i7 adds no extra benefit whatsoever as the bottleneck in speeds is the GPU.

You're right, but that was the usage scenario I had in mind as I wrote that post. The "i7 will be snappier" was meant for the situations I said in the second point (video / photo editing, developing - again I run into the "english-trap" :-( ). Ok, for gaming, It depends on the kind of game. Some benchmarks had shown, that (depending on the settings) the difference between i5 / i7 can be measured. But it also could be that there is no game the i5 can't run while the i7 will do the job. Maybe if the i5 wouldn't run the game in an playable way, the i7 won't do it either.

But to be honest - the MBA is no gaming machine. It's an ultra portable computer, delivering more power that will be expected (this also belongs to the i5) so that it is a good computer for nearly all kind of work and some gaming abilities... ;-)

cu
SchodMC

 

[mattferg]

what a horrible discussion.

the i7 is faster, get over it. psychological statements my ....

do you need 100 horsepower or 120 horsepower? both cars will do the same job. will you notice it when you ride in a city at 30km/h? very slightly, it will not maximize the engine output for both.
will you notice it on a highway? yes.

And yes I'm very interested in the exact performance difference between the two, because of the impact when working with an external screen. And the Airs in the Apple shop didn't blow me away.

Um, it's not really like that. It's more like the difference between 300 horsepower and 320. You'll never notice it driving through town or on a highway, only on a track where engine power is absolutely needed. As such, for most people, the power would never ever get used.

Oh, and there's no impact when working with an external screen, I think Schod's situation came from him working with high-intensity CPU stuff when using an external screen, which has little to nothing to do with the fact it was a second display. The rendering for the screen is done by the GPU, which as I'm sure you know, is the same 5000 for both the i5 and i7. The notion that Intel's latest processor series would struggle running an external screen is a silly one at best.

This discussion is important because it stops people wasting $150 they can spend on other stuff Most people don't need to spend it, some do, period.

 

[fark]

Again childish responses with no rebuke to my points. Your wallet must really miss that $150.

And your self image must really be poor to find value in winning and argument on the Internet.

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This discussion is important because it stops people wasting $150 they can spend on other stuff Most people don't need to spend it, some do, period.

I missed the vote where you were elected to watch over other people's spending habits.

 

[SchodMC]

Um, it's not really like that. It's more like the difference between 300 horsepower and 320. You'll never notice it driving through town or on a highway, only on a track where engine power is absolutely needed. As such, for most people, the power would never ever get used.

Oh, and there's no impact when working with an external screen, I think Schod's situation came from him working with high-intensity CPU stuff when using an external screen, which has little to nothing to do with the fact it was a second display. The rendering for the screen is done by the GPU, which as I'm sure you know, is the same 5000 for both the i5 and i7. The notion that Intel's latest processor series would struggle running an external screen is a silly one at best.

This discussion is important because it stops people wasting $150 they can spend on other stuff Most people don't need to spend it, some do, period.

I had the impact with a couple of windows / apps opened on different spaces screens, but no high-intensity CPU stuff was active then. Benchmark-Tests had shown, that the i5 will also throttle the GPU more than the i7 will do. But I don't know if this is also for idle mode or only for high GPU usage. And I also said a couple of times: I don't know if there was an other problem with the i5 model I had. Although there are some other users that will realize some lazy working power or lags with the i5. (Don't want to start over into the "psychological" discussion again. )

Meanwhile I'm really totally confused. The i7 has 400MHz more base clock as well as 1MB more L3 cache. Don't know if this really isn't noticeable. Anand wrote in his description for the battery life test "There's enough idle time baked in to make sure that the Core i7 based 13-inch MBA isn't artifically penalized by having to do more work than the i5 model simply because it's faster." So the i7 will do the same job as the i5 in a faster way!

IMHO, the primary question is not whether you will realize the difference or not. It's the question if the difference is that big that the i7 is a must-have upgrade for everyone. And here (as i7 owner) I have to be fair and say: no! But it also will not be a complete useless upgrade for the people that say to themselves "it's worth for me and for what I'm going to do with the MBA to invest the $150".

cu
SchodMC

 

[AXs]

Um, it's not really like that. It's more like the difference between 300 horsepower and 320. You'll never notice it driving through town or on a highway, only on a track where engine power is absolutely needed. As such, for most people, the power would never ever get used.

Oh, and there's no impact when working with an external screen, I think Schod's situation came from him working with high-intensity CPU stuff when using an external screen, which has little to nothing to do with the fact it was a second display. The rendering for the screen is done by the GPU, which as I'm sure you know, is the same 5000 for both the i5 and i7. The notion that Intel's latest processor series would struggle running an external screen is a silly one at best.

This discussion is important because it stops people wasting $150 they can spend on other stuff Most people don't need to spend it, some do, period.

Brilliantly and cleverly said.

Yea, and if I could run an external display on s-video 10 years ago without a problem, no way 2013 graphics is going to have problems. That's just crazy.

As the man politely said, it comes from CPU driven tasks and not a GPU bottleneck.

The thing is, the i5 and i7 are so minimally different - EVEN with high end tasks, that you will barely be able to account for the difference. 20% sounds big till you realize 10 seconds cut to 8 seconds IS the 20% Anandtech was talking about, amongst others.

Bottom line, if the i5 is struggling with some CPU intensive task, it almost guaranteed that the i7 will face those struggles too. And I'm not talking about a 1 second stutter. I'm talking about lack of processor power for a said task.

Okay, so say the i5 gives you stuttering performance for a high-performance task.. the i7 takes away SOME of the stuttering to make it smoother - though unlikely.

The underlying question still is - Is this the right laptop for you? a 1-2 month old laptop is already working at MAX CPU capability, or close - how good of a buy was it?
You're buying the Air to run at 100% to just get by for your primary functioning needs? That doesn't sound like an ideal purchase.

So at the end of the day just get what makes you happy. Either way, you're getting one of the weaker performance-based laptops in the entire market... BUT the BEST battery life ever on a mobile computer.

 

[Dr. McKay]

About that 'driving through town' and 'highway' analogy : I definitely consider surfing the web with safari or chrome to be nothing more than 'driving through town'.
Yet, people have been stating that the i5 even struggles with that (jerky scrolling on content heavy websites), even with 8Gb of RAM. If that's true, that's more than incentive enough to switch to an i7, much more so than gaining a couple of seconds when rendering video...

 

[DisplacedMic]

i don't know about you guys (and I know i"m contributing to the problem) but I really wish this thread would die.

 

[mattferg]

About that 'driving through town' and 'highway' analogy : I definitely consider surfing the web with safari or chrome to be nothing more than 'driving through town'.
Yet, people have been stating that the i5 even struggles with that (jerky scrolling on content heavy websites), even with 8Gb of RAM. If that's true, that's more than incentive enough to switch to an i7, much more so than gaining a couple of seconds when rendering video...

Um, seriously? You think a fairly high tier mobile processor from 2013 stutters running webpages? Honestly I've got an i5 (albeit with 8GB of RAM) and I've never experienced any stutter with a webpage, period. Chrome runs 100% smoothly on mine, people who have this issue should probably get their Air checked. As AXs amazingly put, the i7 isn't going to solve this, anyways.

Heck, I had a netbook from 2009 running Windows 8 before this, and that hardly ever stuttered running a webpage.

 

[SchodMC]

Um, seriously? You think a fairly high tier mobile processor from 2013 stutters running webpages? Honestly I've got an i5 (albeit with 8GB of RAM) and I've never experienced any stutter with a webpage, period. Chrome runs 100% smoothly on mine, people who have this issue should probably get their Air checked. As AXs amazingly put, the i7 isn't going to solve this, anyways.

Heck, I had a netbook from 2009 running Windows 8 before this, and that hardly ever stuttered running a webpage.

As far as I know shuttered web pages seems to be a Safari problem. People using chrome won't have these problem. And it seems that Safari 7 with Mavericks will change a lot at this point.

cu
SchodMC

 

[Dr. McKay]

Um, seriously? You think a fairly high tier mobile processor from 2013 stutters running webpages?

I didn't think so either, but I'd better make sure before forking out that much money...

 

[mattferg]

I didn't think so either, but I'd better make sure before forking out that much money...

There's no webpage issues whatsoever I've also run TF2 (albeit not wonderfully intense game here ) on full settings and it ran perfectly smoothly! The i7 isn't really worth the money for most people tbh.

What were you planning to use your Air for?