Macbook Heat - Will Merom Solve it?

[gog]

I'm going to buy a macbook now anyway.
But out of interest, they seem to be very hot operators from the reviews.
Do any tech-heads out there know if the more efficient merom will impact on the heat issue?

 

[generik]

Well what the early reports claim is that it will be 20% faster at the same power consumption. It goes to follow then that if it is 20% faster, then it needs to work only 80% of the time under the same workload, and likewise give out more heat.

It is not like MacOS requires tons of antivirus apps/spyware scanners running all the time

 

[Apple Corps]

gog - I have been holding off on another Apple notebook purchase due to the heat/noise problems. Like many, Merom was going to be the salvation. BUT, it will, more than likely, produce as much or more heat. Yes, even faster performance but not any reduction in heat output. What concerns me is where to from here? Thermal transfer compound > heat sinks > heat pipes and fans are the current and only practical solution - and they are not fully getting the job done. Yes, the dynamic throttling of the procesor and possibly graphics chips help control the heat output, but why pay for such high end capability only to have it throttled down due to heat issues?

Where to???????

 

[mmmcheese]

gog - I have been holding off on another Apple notebook purchase due to the heat/noise problems. Like many, Merom was going to be the salvation. BUT, it will, more than likely, produce as much or more heat. Yes, even faster performance but not any reduction in heat output. What concerns me is where to from here? Thermal transfer compound > heat sinks > heat pipes and fans are the current and only practical solution - and they are not fully getting the job done. Yes, the dynamic throttling of the procesor and possibly graphics chips help control the heat output, but why pay for such high end capability only to have it throttled down due to heat issues?

Where to???????

Don't worry, computers will only get hotter and use more energy for the foreseeable future...luckily, computational power will likely increase as well.

Remember the head "problems" back in the 1990s when they had to start putting heatsinks on chips? It was absolutely outrageous! Good thing we don't have to do that anymore!

 

[Catfish_Man]

Um, guys, 20% faster at the same wattage means *the same* heat for *less time*. Wattage is a rate, not an amount.

<edit> Fixing the cooling system on the MBP is what will fix the heat issues </edit>

 

[Apple Corps]

What else (beyond proper application of thermal transfer compound) will fix the cooling system? And, if we know, how did such a solution escape the focus and capability of Apple engineers?

On an earlier post I did a very gentle mini "rant" regarding less emphasis on the super thin design and eye candy and more on engineering / manufacturing excellence.

I do not need the screen space of the 17" MBP but it may have fewer "issues" than the MB or MBP 15" models. As the Merom is pin compatible with the Yonah, one might conclude that revised logic boards / cooling system / whatever could be done anytime and ready to start dropping Merom's in when shipped (yeah - along with revised chipsets etc.).

 

[Max on Macs]

In theory it will be cooler. If it consumes the same amount of power, and it generates more power, it must be more efficient, producing less heat.

 

[Cybergypsy]

the macbook is a little hotter then a ibook G4 ...not bad at all!

 

[Apple Corps]

In theory it will be cooler. If it consumes the same amount of power, and it generates more power, it must be more efficient, producing less heat.

Unlikely - the Merom will produce MORE performance for as much or more heat. I doubt that Apple will introduce a new chip to maintain the same processing power with less heat production UNLESS we have a REAL HEAT PROBLEM (which we may). It is more efficient but if it uses the same power it must dissipate the same amount of heat. My point is that the Merom will not likely solve the heat issue.

 

[gog]

gog - I have been holding off on another Apple notebook purchase due to the heat/noise problems. Like many, Merom was going to be the salvation. BUT, it will, more than likely, produce as much or more heat. Yes, even faster performance but not any reduction in heat output. What concerns me is where to from here? Thermal transfer compound > heat sinks > heat pipes and fans are the current and only practical solution - and they are not fully getting the job done. Yes, the dynamic throttling of the procesor and possibly graphics chips help control the heat output, but why pay for such high end capability only to have it throttled down due to heat issues?

Where to???????

Well at least I won't need to buy one of those cheesy USB coffee-cup warmers. And its freezing here, so I can turn the heater off.
But seriously, this issue has already been a major bottleneck (G5 PB), and I take your point!
Anyway, merom is interesting, but not enough for me to delay my purchase, especially if just as hot.

 

[bbrosemer]

Cramming ultra fast chips into 1'' thick computers is only going to produce more and more heat. The faster these chips get the hotter the laptop/notebooks will get. Until they can invent a new type of processor that isn't based on silicon this will continue to be a problem. The only other solution is come up with a new type of cooling method. Until one of these two happen there will continue to be issues in all silicon based processing.

 

[onthat]

After the Merom fitted MBpros consistently crash OS X, they'll implement new cooling measures. Hopefully nothing too fancy...I doubt they'd take it much further than compromising case silence.

 

[Apple Corps]

After the Merom fitted MBpros consistently crash OS X, they'll implement new cooling measures. Hopefully nothing too fancy...I doubt they'd take it much further than compromising case silence.

I wonder - might liquid cooled laptops be a solution?

 

[howesey]

I wonder - might liquid cooled laptops be a solution?

Already use heat pipes which is a better solution.

 

[Apple Corps]

I just checked out one of the 15" MBP at COMPUSA. The temperature of the case above the function keys was every bit as hot as has been reported.

To be honest, I discounted some of the reports as having been written by some "wimps" or perfectionists. Ouch - I really could NOT hold a finger on that area for even ONE FULL SECOND without some pain - way TOO HOT.

Granted, why would you need to keep a finger there? You don't - but the heat eminating from that area and the left speaker area is felt when using the keyboard.

A more effective cooling approach needs to be developed - more noise and liquid cooling - stay tuned

 

[gog]

A few threads say the macbook pros are hotter than the macbooks.
Is this, however, simply because the metal casing conducts heat better, so keeping the insides cooler? That would mean the macbooks are hotter on the inside, but cooler on the outside..?
In any case, they should bring back metal for the smaller machines. It just looks better.

 

[aristobrat]

Apple should hire some of the ThinkPad engineers.

A Dual Core 2.0GHz ThinkPad T60 idles at 38-43C and under load, zips up to 60C+. FWIW, the T60 is a whopping 1.2" thick. It doesn't feel warm, much less hot.

http://www.intelmactemp.com/ is showing that Intel MacBook/Pros are idling in the 50Cs and under load shoot in the 80Cs.

 

[Catfish_Man]

Cramming ultra fast chips into 1'' thick computers is only going to produce more and more heat. The faster these chips get the hotter the laptop/notebooks will get. Until they can invent a new type of processor that isn't based on silicon this will continue to be a problem.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Core Duo is cooler AND faster than a Pentium-4. Chips can be designed to be both low power and fast, and Intel has stated that Merom will be 20% faster on most stuff, while using the same amount of power. You may think they're lying about Merom, but you can't deny the comparison between CD and previous Intel chips.


(by "fix the cooling system" in my earlier post I meant apply the thermal paste correctly. User testing has indicated that this gets the heat to acceptable levels)

 

[Abstract]

gog - I have been holding off on another Apple notebook purchase due to the heat/noise problems. Like many, Merom was going to be the salvation. BUT, it will, more than likely, produce as much or more heat. Yes, even faster performance but not any reduction in heat output. What concerns me is where to from here? Thermal transfer compound > heat sinks > heat pipes and fans are the current and only practical solution - and they are not fully getting the job done. Yes, the dynamic throttling of the procesor and possibly graphics chips help control the heat output, but why pay for such high end capability only to have it throttled down due to heat issues?

Where to???????

People said the same thing about early 12" Powerbooks. They didn't get any hotter despite moving from an 867 MHz to a 1.5 GHz (or possibly 1.67GHz?) G4 chip. In fact, they got cooler after the first model, and eventually the machine didn't get warmer even after a proc upgrade. Funny that.

 

[Apple Corps]

Catfish Man - I know you don't have the answer - but how in god's name can something so basic as proper application of TTC (thermal transfer compound) get missed by Apple / Quanta? How did Apple miss the temperature issue? One wonders if prototypes are produced and evaluated - who knows?

BTW - many people are using the term "thermal grease" - I'm going to try and start a trend for TTC as an acronym

 

[ManchesterTrix]

Catfish Man - I know you don't have the answer - but how in god's name can something so basic as proper application of TTC (thermal transfer compound) get missed by Apple / Quanta? How did Apple miss the temperature issue? One wonders if prototypes are produced and evaluated - who knows?

BTW - many people are using the term "thermal grease" - I'm going to try and start a trend for TTC as an acronym

Because it's not every MacBook Pro that's suffering extreme heat. A lot of people complaining about the heat have MBPs that get no hotter than the PowerBook G4s. There are people whose laptops are getting TOO hot, but the problem is that most of the people whining consistently on the message boards don't have the tools, skills, and desire to document the temperature of their MacBooks. Out of 6 laptops, we personally have 1 that is actually having problems due to heat. The Core temp regularly hits 100 celcius under load and the case gets a good 15-20 Degrees Celcius warmer than the other MBPs.

 

[ManchesterTrix]

After the Merom fitted MBpros consistently crash OS X, they'll implement new cooling measures. Hopefully nothing too fancy...I doubt they'd take it much further than compromising case silence.

Except there's no reason that Memrom chips would consitstently crash OS X.

 

[Catfish_Man]

Catfish Man - I know you don't have the answer - but how in god's name can something so basic as proper application of TTC (thermal transfer compound) get missed by Apple / Quanta? How did Apple miss the temperature issue? One wonders if prototypes are produced and evaluated - who knows?

BTW - many people are using the term "thermal grease" - I'm going to try and start a trend for TTC as an acronym

No idea. It seems absurd to me.

 

[Nar1117]

Does Apple still deny this as a problem? Like say i have a macbook pro that gets too hot, can i take it back to the apple store and get it replaced for a new one? (under applecare)

 

[Apple Corps]

Does Apple still deny this as a problem? Like say i have a macbook pro that gets too hot, can i take it back to the apple store and get it replaced for a new one? (under applecare)

Give it a go - the more that get returned the more likely Apple may get on with improving things!