MacBook heats up very much

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Darkaholic, Aug 1, 2013.

  1. Darkaholic, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013

    Darkaholic macrumors newbie

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    #1
    Hello

    I have a 2.3 ghz intel core i7, 8gb memory macbook pro.
    I have been with it for over a year. I am a videographer, so I work on a lot of video, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. My macbook heats up very much mostly when I am recharging and working on it right in between the keyboard and the screen in the center. I am going to buy a hybrid solid state drive, to speed up my computer, do you think this would help to cool it down over long periods of time of work? is it possible I also need to purchase a new better video card for my mac?

    Thank you!! :) :apple:
     
  2. Queen6, Aug 1, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2013

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #2
    Video card is not replaceable as the chip is soldered to the logic board, your only path here is a newer Mac, I don't see a hybrid drive having any impact on system temperatures.

    If you are concerned about temperature and want to reduce it elevation of the rear of the machine helps, as sitting flat on the desk only reflects the heat back to the base of the Mac. You can buy passive aluminium coolers like Rain Designs Mstand or iLap. Most powered coolers are designed for PC notebooks and don't work overly well with Mac`s if at all. One cooler that does work efficiently is the Moshi Zefyr 2, as it`s principle of cooling is specifically designed for Apple portables, by blowing the air horizontally across the base of the computer, however don't expect miracles.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Link: Moshi Zefyr 2
    A cheap USB fan can achieve the same if strategically placed, not as elegant mind, nor as easy to put in your notebooks case :p but they do help to reduce case temperatures.

    You can use software to override Apple`s own cooling algorithm by manually taking control of fan RPM and setting up power profile presets with SMC Fan Control 2.4, or here with UltraFan which allows you stipulate a preset temperature and the software will automatically raise and lower fan RPM`s to keep the system at the predefined temp, which i personally feel is a far more elegant solution. At the end of the day you want to control your system temperature, not your fan rpm`s. For me SMC is now pretty much redundant with the latest release of UltraFan having manual control of the fans RPM, and subsequently i am starting to uninstall it from my own Mac`s. SMC FC is a great app, however although it`s recently updated, functionality is limited compared to some newer apps, equally SMC Fan Control is rock steady stable and a finished product.

    Strictly speaking Apple`s own cooling algorithm works, albeit at sacrifice of increased temps for quieter operation. This has always been the Apple way and is really nothing detrimental to the system, i have one MBP from 2008 all original barring a recent fan change that has an uptime of over 35K hours. The latest MBP`s need less assistance in remaining cool; for some it`s simply disconcerting the heat generated and transferred to the case, although it`s perfectly normal as the aluminium acts as a heat-sync. i have to deal with elevated ambient temperature so at times a software solution is useful. Apart from the passive cooling the Mstands bring they also offer a very sound ergonomic solution. A passive cooler and UltraFan will maximise the cooling, there is little else you can do short of reducing the ambient temperature or the system load. If I know i am going to push a system i will close all apps that are not essential as this can and does make an impact to system temperature.

    High temperatures in general is not overly harmful to your systems, unless you push to the extremes. What is far more detrimental is thermal stress, where temperatures rapidly cycle by significant margins over a short period of time. Anyone striving for great longevity should look to minimise rapid temperature changes, here UltraFan is your best friend.

    Using a RainDesign Mstand, a Moshi Zefyr 2 and latest version of UltraFan I can reduce temperature by over 20C when transcoding an MKV video file, and that is something worth thinking about;

    • Apple default cooling algorithm 99C - 103C (still on Mstand) fans 4K and escalating :eek:
    • Mstand, Zefyr & UltraFan 79C - 82C fans at 5.8K :cool:

    Recently i have been experimenting with a CoolerMaster Notrepal E1 cooling pad, it has a single very large fan 23CM (9") running at 800 rpm, and most importantly moving a significant 91.25 CFM, this is far more than most other powered coolers i have tried.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The fan by far takes up the majority of the coolers body, runs slow and quiet. As it`s designed for a PC portable i didn't have any high expectations; the cooler runs quiet as in silent, perfect size for a 15" MBP, has USB expansion, single speed with on/off button and lifts the machine a good couple of inch`s of the desk. I chose my Late 2011 2.4 i7 15" MBP, it`s connected to an external display, runs 24/7 and is generally north of 70C (158F) on any given day. Any software solution only results in the MBP doing a fair impression of a "Turbojet" which we all love to loath, as workloads rise and temperatures increase.

    The important part cooling; well as ever with a Mac a mixed bag, the elevation definitely helps versus being flat on the desk. I have little expectation of any cooler reducing a Mac`s internal temperature significantly, what the Notepal E1 was able to do was systematically reduce fan rpm by a good 1K without any increase in internal temperatures, which is a big step forward. With this cooler and a software solution (UltraFan/SMC Fan Control) it`s possible to have a moderate load and a relatively quiet system, and that counts for a lot. The major downside to the Notepal E1 is the size, it`s clearly designed to be "planted" on the desk. when using the 10 degree angle i use a piece of that rubber you can buy for car dashboards, just to ensure the MBP doesn't slip and slide about, just seems prudent with such an expensive notebook perched on the edge of the desk. The Notepal E1 also unusually blows a stream of cool air out of the front to cool the hands which is well unusual, nevertheless not unpleasant on a hot day.

    I still rate the Moshi Zefyr 2 as the best powered cooler for a Mac portable simply due to it`s continuous horizontal air flow, however the pricing and availability make it a tough choice. 1K reduction in fan speed may not sound that big a deal, however if that keeps the Mac below the "Turbojet' threshold then it`s a worthwhile investment for anyone seeking the quieter life :p

    What i have observed over the years is the best solution for a Mac portable is a combination of software, and powered cooler, on my Late 2011 15" MBP (2.4 i7) running both internal & external display`s i run; Ultrafan set to 66C, AdBlock and it sits on a CoolerMaster NotePal E1 this results in a reasonably cool and quiet system. My Retina is better behaved thermally and i just run UltraFan, AdBlock and it sits on a Rain Design Mstand.

    Note: the CoolerMaster Notepal E1 moves a very considerable volume of air, over 90 cubic feet per minute (CFM) a regular PC cooler moving say 40CFM will have little to no effect on an Apple portable, my recent observations are undertaken in an ambient temperature of 25C to 28C, so you may not need to go all the way to achieve a cool, quiet Mac.

    The old adage still applies; it`s easier to keep a system cool, than cool-down an already hot machine. This being said it`s not strictly necessary, equally it`s nice to know that there are options for reducing temperature out there.
     
  3. takeshi74 macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    #3
    Nope. I have a full SSD in my MBP and it doesn't prevent heat.

    Doubtful. Using the CPU and GPU will generate heat. Try a cooling device. If you think it's an issue there are threads on reapplying the thermal paste. Odds are this is all normal for the load you're putting on the MBP.
     
  4. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #4
    CPU & GPU are the primary culprits for high temp
     
  5. vpro, Aug 2, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2013

    vpro macrumors 65816

    vpro

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    #5
    Recently.

    Recently with the whole over heating business, I found that I took one of my pots from the kitchen and used it as a flat surface for my notebook and what do you know? It worked to transfer the excess heat throughout the pot! It has to be a pot with a really thick base though, you know the part that meets the stove top elements? Try this free alternative to redistribute heat from your notebook, don't absorb in all those nasty invisible heat waves, who knows what is in it right? Don't risk leg cancer or anything *wink* *wink* *winks*
     
  6. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    May 16, 2008
    #6
    Don't expect any noticeable difference in heat by changing the drive, as the primary heat sources are the CPU and GPU. Heat is primarily driven by the workload you put on the CPU/GPU. If you're not already doing so, use iStat Pro (free) or iStat Menus ($16) to get accurate readings of your temps, fan speeds, etc., rather than relying on your sense of touch or sound. A forum member has posted a copy of iStat Pro that has been "tweaked" to enhance compatibility with Mountain Lion. You can download it here.
    The Intel processors used in Macs are designed to automatically shut down to prevent damage if they truly overheat. CPU Tjmax = 105C (221F), GPU Tjmax = 100C (212F) on i3, i5, i7 processors. (Source: Intel)
    Unless there is a rare defect in a Mac, most temps are well within the normal operating range, considering the workload being put on it. Websites with Flash content, games and other multimedia apps will put higher demand on the CPU/GPU, generating more heat. This is normal. If you're constantly putting high demands on your system, such as gaming or other multimedia tasks, expect temps to rise and fans to spin up accordingly. It's just your Mac doing its job to maintain temps within the normal range.
    It is also quite normal for your Mac to become extremely hot to the touch during intensive operations. The aluminum body transfers heat more effectively than other materials used in computer casings, so you will feel the heat more. This doesn't indicate that it's overheating and will not harm the computer to be hot to the touch.
    Your fans are always on when your Mac is on, spinning at a minimum of 2000 rpm (for MBPs) or 1800 rpm (for MBAs, MBs and minis), or 1200 for the newest MBAs. Older iMacs have 3 fans with minimum speeds in the 800-1200 range, while the newest iMacs have a single fan, spinning at a minimum of about 1400 rpm. They will spin faster as needed to keep temps at a safe level. If your fans are spinning up without increased heat, try resetting the SMC. (PRAM/NVRAM has nothing to do with these issues, so resetting it will not help.)
    The intake and exhaust vents are in the back of the computer near the hinge on all Mac notebooks (except the new MBP with retina display, which has intake vents along the sides at the bottom). The iMac vent is a slot on the back near the top of the computer. Make sure the vents remain unblocked to allow your computer to perform at its best. For Flash-related issues:
    Yet another ill-informed and misleading post by this poster, who has been posting misinformation in several threads. As the aluminum body of the MBP transfers heat quite effectively, you don't need such "home remedies" to transfer heat, and to suggest leg cancer as a possible consequence of the heat generated by a MBP is highly irresponsible and completely false.
     
  7. Doward macrumors 6502a

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    #7
    Lap your heatsink and replace the thermal paste - you will have greatly decreased temperatures.
     
  8. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #8
    That is completely unnecessary for the vast majority of users.
     
  9. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #9
    This guy continuously posts the same tirade, you need to identify the root cause of the elevated temperatures, most likely software. His assumptions are flawed at best....
     
  10. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #10
    Clearly little or no understanding of how a MBP cooling system works: the case temperature is a function of radiated heat. Cooling the case has little impact on the internals, the fans deal with that one.

    As for the cancer remark poor taste & poor integrity, you continuously reenforce your professional status, equally you frequently reveal your true colours....
     
  11. Doward, Aug 3, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013

    Doward macrumors 6502a

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    #11
    For a given CPU frequency and load, do we agree there is a specific amount of heat produced?

    Any heat not sufficiently controlled by the MBP's cooling system is going to dissipate to surrounding air, is it not?

    It stands to reason that piping the heat out in a more efficient manner (ie. lapping / heatsink compound reapplication) could result in less uncontrolled thermal radiation being picked up by the aluminum chassis, would it not?

    *edit*

    Just did a 10 minute 1080p encode while watching a 1080p flash movie. Highest recorded temp via non-contact IR was 112F (44C). While I feel this is warm, I do not feel this is at all hot. I can easily hold my hand to it without undue discomfort.

    Also, I grabbed a couple videos of all of this in action. I still would love to see some definitive proof that a rMBP fares better. I do not believe that it would.
     
  12. Queen6, Aug 3, 2013
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2013

    Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #12
    Late 2011 15" MBP 15 minutes into a 1080p encode while playing back a 1080p video; ambient 25.3C, external case temperature maximum measured by a UNI-T UT301C IR thermometer 43.7C

    Doward`s modified 17" has better thermal properties due to it`s larger physical footprint, yet superficially it`s not running significantly cooler than my own 15" nor do I really expect it to...

    Retina next :p
     
  13. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #13
    Mid 2012 15" Retina over 30 minutes into a 1080p encode while playing back a 1080p video; ambient 25.5C, external case temperature maximum measured by a UNI-T UT301C IR thermometer 45.5C and FWIW 3.1GHz all the way...

    Both systems have stock thermal paste, heat syncs untouched from the factory. Not all Mac`s are broken it`s an obvious fact...
     
  14. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #14
    I wouldn't recommend anyone to put their MBP directly on their thighs. Maybe a cancer is an exaggeration but if you are exposed to heat for regularly long periods, it could burn you, acidify your blood, and even lead to degenerative diseases such as knee rheumatoid arthritis. Not to mention the MBP continuously emits radiations that could be harmful to your genital parts... I am not joking.

    Your MBP should sit on a hard surface and at a certain distance from your body to avoid all the negative effects I mentioned.
     
  15. dastinger macrumors 6502a

    dastinger

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    #15
    Upvote if you pushed your MBP away from you after reading this post :D
     
  16. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #16
    I posted with my Google nexus 4... :D
     
  17. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #17
    Utter nonsense, and making such claims are highly irresponsible and misleading. Name one case where any of that ever occurred to any user, other than possibly leaving a MBP running at full tilt on bare legs long enough to cause a slight burn, which would only demonstrate an advanced case of stupidity. Some people will fall for any ridiculous story! :rolleyes:
     
  18. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #18
    Ahhhh, your words remind me how much suffered Galileo with the Church when he claimed that earth was round... :D

    I challenge you to put your mbp on your thighs, stomach, and head on a regular basis and we'll see what happens after sometime...;)
     
  19. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    #19
    I've been doing exactly that for over 5 years, with zero issues (on my lap, or stomach, when lying down). Just how long is it supposed to take before my spleen falls out?
     
  20. Ichabod. macrumors regular

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    Oct 1, 2012
    #20
    Moving on from the fear of thermal radiation...

    Has your MBP ever been cleaned of dust?

    It's a pretty simple procedure if you have a screwdriver that fits the screws and a can of compressed air. (a small 6-pointed screwdriver is required to remove the fans and completely clean them out)

    MBPs are pretty tight, so the reduction in airflow can compound any other temperature issues.
     
  21. scbond macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Loud fans and extra heat during heavy processes is a normal feature. I get it on my 2010 Mac mini and have had it on the 2009, 2010, 2011 and multiple 2012 Macbook Pros when watching HD videos on YouTube...as do those owned by everyone I know.
     
  22. sofianito macrumors 65816

    sofianito

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    #22
    We are all witnessing the side effects of your doings... Your became a hot-blooded person... :D
     
  23. Doward macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    Very nice - ambient here was 26C, btw.

    I'm not saying that all MBPs are broken - but there does appear to be a not-insignificant portion of them that are having thermal issues.

    Queen6, if you ever find yourself willing to open your rMBP and lap the heatsink / replace the heatsink compound, I'd be very interested in seeing what your temps lower to.

    I believe that would be a starting point to find out what the 'best case' cooling capacity is.

    BTW, what's your wattage draw on that IB? I spiked upwards of 52W a few times.
     
  24. Queen6 macrumors 603

    Queen6

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    #24
    Well come the time to clean out the fans, I am not entirely against the idea, equally I don't expect to see any big gains if any. Typically the IVB Retina tops out at 45W, the 15" SB can exceed 55W.
     
  25. swerve147 macrumors 6502a

    swerve147

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    #25
    I don't have a thermometer, but based on simple observation I can tell you unequivocally that as a baseline the 15" rMBP runs hotter than either machine.

    Which is why comparing a 2011 (17 or 15) and making assumptions about "what are acceptable temps" on an 2012 15' rMBP is an apples by oranges comparison by default.

    Different design, different chipsets = different temps.

    I don't think there's been a satisfactory response or collection of data on the 15 rMBP for anyone to conclude that "anything stable above 95 is unacceptable" as was previously stated.

    Which is why I think GGJstudios by default is being the most logical about this whole discussion, at least from the standpoint of the 15 rMBP:

    • Intel's specs state the IB TJ max temperature is 105C
    • 1 year in there have been little to no heat-related failures of the 15 rMBP reported, at least between MacRumors and ASC.
    • A fair conclusion to draw is that, while those high temps may or may not have an effect on the longevity of your machine, Apple's fan-cooling policy /design has been doing an acceptable job at preventing heat-related failures

    I do agree that the paste/heatsink job can be much much better, though. Maybe we wouldn't get as many of these "OMFG my rMBP sucks so bad it gets so hot" threads.

    BTW I've repasted my rMBP and have generally been seeing lower temps (idle at 40 where it would be 45 before, under load stable at low 80s whereas before I would hit mid-high 80s). But I can certainly still get my rMBP to hit 100C+ consistently. All I need to do is play Candy Crush Saga on FB (yes I will admit to that, I'm on level 325 :))
     

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