Macbook pro 15" i7 vs HP ENVY 15" i7

[Max(IT)]

I agree, the MacBook Pros are fine, but they are not what they could be and I don't understand why. Why wouldn't Apple use a more capable GPU? I know, I know, it is ok, but why no option for "kickass graphics"? Why no Blu-ray option? etc etc. I just think it could be better. Does anyone disagree and think it is as good as it could be?

Apple is usually looking for a balanced system (with exception like the crappy GT120 on a 2500$ Mac Pro 2009). You can't find top notch tech specs in a Mac.

 

[JoeG4]

It has been proven time and time and time again that the radeon used in the envy isn't all that much faster (IIRC, like 10% max in most cases), than the 330m in the MBP.

That's not an issue anyway, but the 'faster' 280m, higher clocked radeons, etc come in laptops 2-3 times thicker than a macbook pro.

 

[Dark Goob]

snip
Since you love notebookcheck AND 3DMark06 instead, why haven't you ever talked about the 3DMark Vantage scores of both these cards? Because the 5830 totally obliterated the 330M by scoring almost twice as much?

I did notice that, but if it's so much better, why can't it beat the inferior GPU on an old test? How does that bear if you're playing older games? To me, the benchmark that is most telling is the one where the two are closest, since it shows the minimum you can expect in terms of improvement.

That said, if it's 50% faster, that's impressive indeed. However like I say, if you're after speed, REALLY, why wouldn't you get this:

$2349.99
Alienware M15X
Software & Services
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
Intel® Core™ i7-820QM Quad Core Processor 1.73GHz (3.06GHz Turbo Mode, 8MB Cache)
1 Year Basic Service Plan
1GB NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 260M
15.6-inch WideFHD 1920x1080 (1080p) WLED
6GB DDR3 at 1066MHz
250GB SATAII 7,200RPM
Slot-Load Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD+-RW, CD-RW)
Primary - 9-cell (85Watt) Lithium-Ion Battery
Wireless 1520 802.11n Half Mini-Card
Alienware M15x, Cosmic Black

I should note that the NVIDIA GTX 260M beats the ATI 5830, even in the Vantage benchmark, assuming that's the like, one to go by and stuff. Also, the Alienware has a built-in DVD drive, a more powerful battery, looks much cooler, has a faster CPU, etc. compared with the HP ENVY. I think HP makes good printers, but really, their laptops don't compete.

Also, just because AMD may be biased doesn't mean that they would deliberately fake benchmarks. The most bias thing they did was to start the chart at 75% to make the 5650 look more impressive on the chart.

Also we're talking about the 5830, not the 5650.

You're the one who's bias by ONLY quoting 3DMark06 as prove that the the 5830 is only 15.5% faster.

More to the point, if the 5830 is sooo much better, then WHY is it only 15.5% faster on a standard benchmark such as that? I'm curious to know. Because the GTX 260M gets a 10177 on 3DMark 06, whereas it's only 7730 for the 5830 chip. That's a substantial improvement.

Again if you are after performance WHY would you get the HP ENVY, over the Alienware? The ENVY is obviously an attempt to clone the MacBook Pro, but it fails in my mind due to lacking a built-in DVD burner, and not giving enough of a performance gain to make it worth it. And from what other posters are saying, the trackpad is definitely sub-par compared to Apple's, but then again, Apple makes the best touch-interface devices of any company, so that's not too much of a surprise.

Again, since you love notebookcheck so much, let them explain to you why the 330M is almost the same as a 240M.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GT-330M.22437.0.html

They show a marginal improvement in speed with the 330M vs. the 240M. They are not exactly the same. It's not a huge boost though, but still, the 330M is a bit faster.

Oh hoho hope you read the last line. I underlined and made it bold just for you, stupid fanboy.

So am I an Alienware fanboy now, too?

I love it how people resort to name-calling when they start losing an argument.

Fact for you: The 8600M was one of the best mobile cards in it's time. That was 3 years ago back in 2007. The tides have changed, and ATI is now far superior than Nvidia in mobile cards. Just like how ATI was beating the crap out of Nvidia 8 years ago with the 9600/9800 cards.

So, what is your opinion of the 260M GTX? Does ATI have something that utterly destroys it too? Just curious.

Like? Opening Firefox?

I was just basing my comment off the XBench benchmarks. But yea, most tasks are a bit snappier.

That's silly. Most people only own quad-core processors at the max. It's impossible to use more than 4 cores simultaneously on a quad-core processor.

Actually you're thinking about this wrong, because on hyper-threaded processors they have eight virtual cores. For instance on the MacBook Pro Core i7, which I am currently using, there are four cores from the perspective of the OS. The Core i7 Quad Core processors would have eight virtual cores, and likewise the Dual Quad Core machines have sixteen (!) virtual cores. Fun times! But on the eight virtual cores that a quad-core i7 has, are there any games which use them all?

Also, how many games for PC no longer require the DVD to be present in the drive? Because if you're using it for gaming, isn't the ENVY going to be a pain in the ass when it asks you to insert the DVD, and you have to haul around that DVD drive thing everywhere? I guess for Steam games it doesn't matter, but I don't always have an internet connection when I play games, and I also don't always play Steam games. Many of my PC games want the DVD in the drive, it seems like a standard thing they ask for.

PS -- Bootcamp does not give a performance hit. I.e. if you have a Mac and a PC with equivalent specs, running the Mac in Bootcamp would be the same speed as running the PC.

 

[gordonyz]

Anybody really played with ENVY 15?
I wonder what's the advangage of ENVY in terms of build quality and design.

 

[kenman884]

Anybody really played with ENVY 15?
I wonder what's the advangage of ENVY in terms of build quality and design.

The MBPs are better build quality and design, that's why Apple can charge such a premium for them. The question is does the OP want to pay more for the build quality, design, and other small awesome things about the MBP, or does he want a cheaper machine with better hardware, especially if he doesn't travel with it and ESPECIALLY if he can hackintosh? We can't decide for him; just give him information to help.

OP, I would consider MANY alternative routes to the HP envy. If you're worried about price and gaming performance but not build quality, you can build your own computer for significantly cheaper, and more powerful if you wish. But if you're not too worried about mobility, I would consider building a desktop and buying an iPad or iPod Touch for when you're on the go, as it would be significantly faster when gaming compared to a similarly priced laptop, even with the additional cost of the iPad/touch.

But consider this; how often will you use the computer to play games, and how often will you use it for general stuff? For general computing, you will be WAY happier with the MBP. With the envy/other cheaper hardware-oriented computers, you will be slightly happier with some games, as both are powerful enough to play any game you want, if the MBP may sometimes not look quite as good.

But then again, the MBP has a better screen, so is the better hardware really worth it? For an avid gamer, maybe yes, but I would guess that you would be happier with the MBP, especially after student discounts and if you wait until summer (free iPod Touch, most likely).

 

[misteralakista]

Just like how everyone on MacRumors waits for the next MBP refresh, I'm waiting for the next Envy 15 refresh (which hopefully will happen sometime in the beginning of May) before I make my decision... but just looking at the current gen of Envy's they seem to be a much better deal - higher res display, better gpu, faster hard drive, blu-ray, battery slice for a total of 15 cells, microsoft office (where you would have to buy iwork for a new mac), beats audio (haven't experienced it myself but most people review it favorably. plus they're boutique speakers) all for the same price as the high end MBP, just with an i5 processor. The i5 processor should run cooler and more efficiently than the quad core i7 as well so slightly better battery life. some people on the notebookreview forums are quoting 6-8 hours w/ slice on it. However, ive heard horror stories about hp's customer service and build quality but remember that most people who have problems complain in forums, while people who are happy with their laptops don't go on forums. The first few gens of MBPs had their fair share of problems as well e.g. warped batteries and mooing fans so im being hopeful that the 3rd gen of Envys are better - 2nd gen was better than 1st gen so i don't see why not.
Stories about customer service DOES make me shudder, though...

On the other hand, even though the MBP would cost probably $500 more with similar specs... awesome customer service, OS X, 9 hour battery life and a very reliable computer.

I'm using an MBP v2.2 with 2.33ghz and ati x1600 and its still running like a champ.... but its sooo outdated! it doesnt even run spore that well. that's why i'm worried about getting the new MBP as well because despite all the pros i'd probably be getting a new computer in another 3 years anyway because it'd be outdated by then as well. Yeah sure, i'll definitely miss using the OS because its such a joy (ilife!!! ) but ive been playing around with windows 7 a little bit and its seriously not that bad. But what i'll definitely NOT miss is not being able to cut and paste files, shift+select multiple items, and having to insert the installation cd EVERYTIME i need to repair the hard drive, which i have to do a lot. I always run the latest OS X but there are always a lot of little problems rather than few big problems so for me they're much more troublesome. also, i bootcamp and ive realised i do most things on the windows side anyway like office, gaming, and torrents - yknow, the serious stuff . i only use the mac side for safari and iphoto plus, what am i gonna do with all that battery life?!?! i'll be happy with 4 hrs. (i fly from the uk to malaysia often and when my mbp could run for 3.5 hours that was enough)

as you can see, i've thought long and hard about this

 

[misteralakista]

Also.... about the whole 3dmark06 argument....
I don't understand how the 5830 is just 16% faster. the envy gets 8050 and the mbp gets 6081 at a resolution of 1280x1024. i'd say that's significant. by my calculations thats more than 30%. the 330m also includes benchmarks from other laptops at lower resolutions as well so they'd naturally give a higher score. not to mention.. apparently you can overclock the envy to give 10k and still be stable.
and back to the op about working with video and heavy mkvs... the better gpu and beats audio and blu-ray would be better, no? i just hope that they have switchable graphics on the next refresh so the laptop can get past the darn 2 hour mark on the 6 cell... THEN the decision will be very clear.

 

[Hitman322]

Just bought an ENVY 15...

I just ordered the ENVY 15 i7-720QM w/4GB DDR3, SSD/HDD (410GB), ATI 5830, DVD drive, Battery Slice, and the best available LCD that HP offers and it came to about $1700 with tax (minus Bing cashback). Pretty sweet deal really. I’m going to drop in another 4GB of ram for about $100 more.

One thing to point out – as I’m typing this on a sweet ass HP HDX18t, is that you can get a great machine for less than a grand if you are ok with a plastic chassis. For me, the ONLY thing MBPros have over most of the competing laptops is build quality. I could care less about the OS. When you think about it, the OS is only for file and program management anyway. You can download any flavor of app you want for browsing, email, etc. Unless of course you own a Mac, then your options are a bit restricted.

I went with the Envy 15 because of price, build quality and performance. In at least two of the three, the Envy has the MBPros beat handily. Also, I want the ability to do exactly what I want on the machine without Steve Jobs limiting what I can and can’t do. I want access to tons of freeware. I want to be able to run the games I choose at the speeds they are meant to run. I want to be able to interface easily with my home network and use the laptop for work and play. And I want portability –which the 15 cells provides.

As far as I’m concerned, Apple only has an advantage in terms of battery life and build quality with most notebooks. Of course some prefer OSX over Win7, but that’s personal preference and again, I don’t spend my day concerned with the OS. As long as it works I’m happy – and Win7 works MUCH better than any previous Windows OS ever built.

So for me it boiled down to this simple pro/cons list.

HP Envy Pros

• Hella fast CPU and GPU
• Up to 16GB ram (currently going to have 8GB)
• SSD Drive is friggen awesome
• I can run ANY game I want on it – even system killers like Crysis
• USB 3.0
• Build Quality
• Design
• Battery Life

Cons

• A bit expensive – but if you want super cool metal laptops, you’re going to pay a bit more
• Battery life? – really a non-issue with the slice but it does add to the weight
• Lack of back-lighted keyboard

So that’s pretty much it. Sure the MBpros are now shipping with the i7 processors, but to get a comparable system (but smaller SSD and without the extra internal 250GB HDD that the Envy has) you’d be dropping about $2900. Versus about $1700 for the Envy. There really is NO comparison. The slight advantage Apple has with build quality and OS tweaks is simply not worth it. I’d rather spend the $1300 on something of my choosing rather than to line the coffers of Mr. Jobs. Ultimately, the Windows laptop market is steadily chipping away at Apple’s advantages and the zealots are not happy about it. Me? I’m laughing all the way to the bank and booting up in 20 seconds.

 

[billgates99]

It has been proven time and time and time again that the radeon used in the envy isn't all that much faster (IIRC, like 10% max in most cases), than the 330m in the MBP.

That's not an issue anyway, but the 'faster' 280m, higher clocked radeons, etc come in laptops 2-3 times thicker than a macbook pro.

I've had my Envy 15 for a few months now and I've found that when the 5830 is OC'd to 550/1125 mHz, it can run almost any 3D game I've tried at 1920x1080 resolution, all detail settings maxed and get at least 45-70FPS, sometimes significantly more. The only game that seemed to drop below 30FPS was Crysis Warhead. My 3Dmark score was in the 10,000s.

My wife's 2009 MBP gets around 10-15 FPS when I try running some of the same games in bootcamp at 1920x1080, max detail settings, sometimes dropping below 10FPS. However, I didn't try overclocking the GeForce 9600M on the MBP; perhaps that would help.