MacBook Pro 2016 SSD soldered on logic board?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by maratus, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. maratus macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #1
    Hi,

    We already know that the base 13" rMBP (without touch bar) has removable SSD. Could someone confirm if the other 2 models (13" & 15" with touch bar) have replaceable SSDs?
     
  2. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    #2
    No one can until they get their hands on them.

    It's best guesses currently based on the drawings and images Apple has shown - and they look like it's soldered.
     
  3. deadworlds macrumors 6502a

    deadworlds

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    #3
    I dont think anyone can confirm this yet until they start shipping out and people start receiving them.
     
  4. maratus, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    maratus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #4
    [​IMG]

    I don't see any connector... and it makes me nervous.

    I'd never buy a laptop with 1TB or 2TB SSD soldered on... imagine if you need to repair (replace) the logic board on an out-of-warranty laptop? Why would I want to pay 800$ (1TB) or 1600$ (2TB) again for a new soldered-on SSD on top of the already expensive board (with embedded CPU, GPU and RAM). I'm sorry, Steve, but Tim and your top managers went full retard.
     
  5. jerryk macrumors 68020

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    #5
    There is a thread quoting sources have said the faster units, with the Superfast SSD, are soldered in.

    But until we here from Apple we will not know for sure.
     
  6. maratus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #6
    And where is that thread? Do you have a link?
     
  7. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #7
    If there are no signs of damage, you are typically offered depot repair (if you take it directly to Apple, not an authorized reseller). It's typically around $350. That said, I agree with you. Drives do die.
     
  8. maratus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #8
    I'm not actually concerned about drives dying. They do last a lot these days. But what if something goes wrong with dGPU, RAM or literally any other component that will require an out-of-warranty logic board replacement? Do I have to "rebuy" an 1600$ worth SSD on top of the typical 750$+ logic board?
     
  9. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #9

    This would be a very bad departure from past practices, and I don't think it would go well for them. Logic board replacements have included anything that is not removable. If ssds are too expensive to replace as part of a logic board replacement, then they won't be soldered. Apple solders things whenever it's better for their design. They don't do it to stop you from upgrading things. They just don't care about retaining that ability.

    In cases where I have needed a logic board replacement, depot repair was always offered. That's a flat rate, typically $350, assuming you take it into an Apple Store and there are no signs of liquid damage or anything else. The really costly repairs are when you take it to an authorized repair center outside of warranty or there are signs of damage.
     
  10. maratus, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    maratus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #10
    Oh, by the way. I've heard of the Apple flat rate, but is it offered in Canada as well? Or is it only available in USA / Japan? (edit: yes, they do it in Canada)

    And I usually drop my laptop once or twice, so there will be sings of damage. With the small dent I have on my current machine I was refused a warranty repair by an authorised repair center. I'm afraid that you need your machine to be in a perfect condition which is unrealistic for a 4-5 year old laptop.

    (edit: apparently, out of warranty logic board replacement price is in the 600-700$ range and doesn't depend on RAM or SSD size. But rMBP is the first laptop where a single component soldered on a logicboard can cost up to 1600$)
     
  11. thekev, Oct 30, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016

    thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #11
    Good question regarding Canada. I've never lived or obtained service there. We had the same hype when they glued the battery to the top case. People on here assumed it would cost $600 or more for battery service, which is ridiculous. The thing is, if it costs too much to replace, they won't solder it. Service prices drift a little here and there, but $2000 for logic board service would be a major ****up on their part.

    Edit: DeltaMac offered a correction on the authorized Apple service provider issue. See the next post.
     
  12. DeltaMac macrumors 604

    DeltaMac

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    #12
    That's an inaccurate statement. I worked at an Apple Authorized Service Provider. I shipped a lot of laptops out for flat rate repairs, the same depot repair centers that an Apple store would ship to. It's the same deal. The flat rate repair is for those kind of repairs that would be covered within warranty, but that unit is out of warranty. No accidental damage is accepted, and the unit typically comes back looking like new. Apple will do those flat-rate repairs until a particular model is classed as obsolete.
     
  13. bmustaf macrumors regular

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    #13
    That very well could be a "based on a true story" kind of Hollywood image/slide, but it is probably soldered, frankly (I wish it wasn't). Probably some BGA type soldered connection.

    As for repairability, warranty E/R is one of the reasons prices are so high. Part of the AAPL premium *is* brand, design, and "the market will bear it", but a major component of hardware pricing *IS* warranty expense to revenue ratios and these are meticulously planned and measured.

    Apple isn't (only) just for fun charging us an arm and and a leg for their products, we're also funding a really generous repair regime (and even more so if you buy AppleCare+). Even with non-AC+'ed products I've only ever had really great experiences where I knew on my unit-cost, AAPL was losing their shirt (like that time my PowerBook G4 blew a capacitor and fried the entire logic board and the replacement unit came back with all cosmetic damage [not trivial] replaced and a new screen, no cost to me - all done under the same warranty repair).

    It's not free, we're all paying for it up front.

    So I think they'll solder them on and still repair them when/if they fail, and the MTBFs between failures on these are pretty long, too...

    It's essentially socialized health care for your Mac/iPhone/iPad and AppleCare+ is the cadillac plan tax. I'm fine with it :).
     
  14. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #14
    Ah thank you. I added an edit to acknowledge that. I knew it worked with Apple
     
  15. Helpfixit, Oct 31, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016

    Helpfixit macrumors member

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    #15
    Expensive storage that will never be salvaged or sold on eBay when AppleCare expires and the logic board develops a fault. :( Bad enough the RAM being soldered, second hand Apple pcie Flash storage has a handsome return for sellers on eBay.

    Apple give ( touchbar ) and Apple take away ( removable storage )

    As an owner of the late 2013 rMBP, my next laptop will most likely be a Thinkpad. There is no excuse for onboard storage, greed and planned obsolescence. Not at all green.



    IMG_4265.jpg IMG_4266.jpg
     
  16. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #16
    I'm not sure that means soldered. Your 2013 rMBP has an ssd which is not considered user serviceable, yet it's not soldered. Apple went as far as using non-standard screws to discourage users from cracking open the case. Wait for the teardown sites to examine this.
     
  17. anzio macrumors 6502

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    #17
    The website says the same thing for the 2015 rMBP.
     

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  18. throAU macrumors 601

    throAU

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    #18
    So, have you upgraded the SSD in your other two mac laptops since 2011? Just asking...
     
  19. maratus thread starter macrumors 6502a

    maratus

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    #19
    If you noticed, the thread has nothing to do with upgrading. Please read my posts
    --- Post Merged, Oct 31, 2016 ---
    Please let me know which models are you considering, I've been looking for a solid rMBP replacement, but neither Dell nor Lenovo Thinkpad high-end models looked good enough.
     
  20. Helpfixit macrumors member

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    #20
  21. Helpfixit, Oct 31, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016

    Helpfixit macrumors member

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    #21
    Hi,

    I don't agree with you on this because the 2011 & 2012 Mac Mini had upgradable RAM. Now the 2014 Mac Mini has the RAM soldered. I would like to mention that the Mac Mini 2011 - 2014 form factor is almost identical having upgraded solid state drives in those machines. Why did they decide to solder the RAM into the logic board on the 2014 Mini, it certainly was not to better design.

    Soldering the RAM into the logic board is nothing short of planned obsolescence and a blatant attempt to stop customers upgrading and prolonging the life of the machine, and now the same for non replaceable flash storage.

    As it looks like Apple is testing the water to see how far they can push non replaceable storage, already testing the market with the Macbook Retina and people seem to be buying. Now it looks like they are offering so called professional laptops such as the new rMBP without touchbar that has removable storage and also offering a touchbar rMBP with fixed non replaceable storage.

    Seems that Lenovo, the Lenovo Carbon X1 has slim design and removable PCIe-NVMe flash storage ( non proprietary) so the Apple and soldered storage is nothing to do with the slim form factor. Removable storage could easily fit within the design plan if Apple wanted.
     
  22. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #22
    You over-estimate the percentage of people who actually upgrade things these days. I know the value of it. In Apple's case they tend to reuse a lot of the design work from the 13" mbp on the mini. Soldered ram means the board doesn't require a socket for it. I suspect this was marginally simpler for Apple, and they didn't care whether anyone could upgrade it later.
     
  23. buster84 macrumors 6502

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    Oct 7, 2013
    #23
    Dam this thread is sad.

    I'm glad that im not buying a new macbook pro. Solder ram was already 1 problem, but soldered SSD's is the biggest *&^% you that apple could do to its customers.

    If your SSD goes bad, you must buy a new logic board, new ram, and new SSD.
    If your ram goes bad, you must buy a new logic board, and new SSD, and new ram.
    If your logic board goes bad, you must buy a new logic board, new ssd, and new ram.
    If your out of warranty, your SOL because it could cost just as much to repair it as it would be to replace it.

    Then the other Big Unknown is whether or not apple will allow you to trade in your broken logic board with an upgraded SSD/Ram and get credit for that SSD/Ram allowing you to re-buy the same size SSD/Ram if something goes wrong with 1 of the 3 possible parts that would cripple your computer. Knowing apple they will straight up tell you to re-buy the SSD/RAM upgrade because the SSD/RAM thats on your broken logic board is useless unless its professionally removed and manually installed on other logic boards.

    My guess as to why this is happening is because of the m.2 drives that are out. They are becoming really fast (3500mbps now, EVO 960) and users have found a way to stick them in 2015 models and below and Tim cook decided to stop this from happening. Blocks all 3rd party sales, and blocks adapter usage. This also gives apple a monopoly to be able to overcharge users for SSD space. Apple SSD prices are extremely high compared to the regular ssd market.

    Not only did apple screw up by increasing the prices, but a solder on SSD will be the last straw for alot of people and i truly wouldnt be surprised to see a good amount of new orders get returned solely because of this issue. They are literally turning the macbook pro into an iphone with no user adjust ability options. They really should re-name the computer because a non-up-gradable computer is not a PRO computer but instead an IPAD with a keyboard.
     
  24. jerryk macrumors 68020

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    #24
    Soldering the RAM also ensures it does not pop loose like happened to my 2011 13" RMB.
     
  25. JTToft macrumors 68040

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    #25
    - While they are higher, they're not extremely so. On the 2016 models, a 256 GB upgrade is $200, while a 512 GB upgrade is $400. A Samsung 950 PRO is right now $185 for 256 GB and $315 for 512 GB on Amazon.

    (960 isn't out yet, but prices look similar.)
     

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