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MacBook Pro/Air refresh schedule - Haswell release timeline

skaertus said:
I don't think the 13" rMBP will get the quad-core. The current 13" rMBP runs with a HD4000, and the 5100 will be powerful enough for the purposes it serves.

I guess it will be as follows:

15" MacBook Pro: quad-core Haswell with dedicated graphics card (and perhaps something better than NVIDIA GT 750M, depending on how Iris Pro will perform);
13" MacBook Pro: 28W dual core with Iris 5100; and
MacBook Air: 15W dual core with Intel HD 5000.

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Why? Is there any evidence to support this or is it just what you hope?

Apple won't put processors with those high TDPs on these laptops. MBA (or rMBA, if it gets released) will get a 15W processor. The MBP/rMBP will get the 28W processor, or an equivalent to the 35W.
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I agree about the TDPs. As long as the quad cores start at 45W or 47W, they will not appear in the 13'' machines. However one should also not forget that some phones ship with up to 8-core processors these days. So eventually Intel might offer quad-core CPUs with a lower TDP, and those could certainly find their way into the 13'' Macs.

There is another option. I believe that since Ivy Bridge, the TDP of the CPUs can be set by the BIOS (or even by the OS). So we might see a quad core with capped Turbo and maximal clock speed such that it stays below 35W. However the single thread performance might suffer in such a setup. Also the cost might be an issue.
 
Mago said:
No Iris 5100 w/o QuadCore Haswell, its the point, at least the ones I've seen, but if that mistrery 35W (seems an i5) comes with Iris 5100, sure will be for rMBP13 has sense, but that 35W *i5-Iris5100* cpu will be available for Q4, so the only Available Haswell rMBP will be the ones with 47W cpu.

But I Think, that the 13"rMBP will come with 47W QuadCore Haswell, that 35W Haswell maybe targeted at the 13"rMBA as the lower 18W Haswell (both available at Q4) willbe targeted at the 11"rMBA.

Before rMBP the 13"MBP as "pro" means High End CPU, and the 13MBA/MB was the "for every else" lower spct CPU. This Strategy had sense, so If Apple dont want to ditch the 13"MBA, will replace it for an 13"rMBA wich will be escencially an rMBP13 with lower end CPU.

Another thing that I just Noted, is that the "Air/Retina" Branding will dissapear, and we will have STD MacBook (previously MBA) and MacBook Pro (previously rMBP).

as many spect its posible to arrive an iMac Pro or as an mini Mac Pro, and that Ugly Behemoth all we want to resurect the Mac Pro.



If Cook said it, its true...
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Without serious modifications to the cooling mechanism? A 13" rmbp with 47w chip definitely wont happen. It's just going to be that much worse in terms of the design point for thermal output, and the likely battery changes will also need to be present.

35 w mba is also a pipedream, especially given the likelyhood of an eventual move to ARM chips in this class of machines, and its competition (ultrabooks). Not going to happen, mba is not going to be migrating back toward the ild macbook formfactor.
 
HardBall said:
Without serious modifications to the cooling mechanism? A 13" rmbp with 47w chip definitely wont happen. It's just going to be that much worse in terms of the design point for thermal output, and the likely battery changes will also need to be present.

35 w mba is also a pipedream, especially given the likelyhood of an eventual move to ARM chips in this class of machines, and its competition (ultrabooks). Not going to happen, mba is not going to be migrating back toward the ild macbook formfactor.
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mba with ARM is a pipedream

and given that you havent saw the heat dissipated by the i7 3520m and the i7 3630qm, how do you say that? because of the TDP only?
 
Mr MM said:
mba with ARM is a pipedream

and given that you havent saw the heat dissipated by the i7 3520m and the i7 3630qm, how do you say that? because of the TDP only?
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Because of the peak power draw of the machine, as well as the margin that must be built I to the machine itself in terms of heat dissipation, especially with prolonged periods of the microprocessors running close to the thermal envelope.
 
HardBall said:
Because of the peak power draw of the machine, as well as the margin that must be built I to the machine itself in terms of heat dissipation, especially with prolonged periods of the microprocessors running close to the thermal envelope.
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peak power draw? put better VRM in there and its solved along with a larger psu

do you know how much heat the 3520m dissipates? its the same as the 3720qm and the 3820qm
 
thundersteele said:
I agree about the TDPs. As long as the quad cores start at 45W or 47W, they will not appear in the 13'' machines. However one should also not forget that some phones ship with up to 8-core processors these days. So eventually Intel might offer quad-core CPUs with a lower TDP, and those could certainly find their way into the 13'' Macs.

There is another option. I believe that since Ivy Bridge, the TDP of the CPUs can be set by the BIOS (or even by the OS). So we might see a quad core with capped Turbo and maximal clock speed such that it stays below 35W. However the single thread performance might suffer in such a setup. Also the cost might be an issue.
Click to expand...

Intel will offer lower TDP quad-core processors, perhaps 28W or 35W. But that doesn't necessarily mean these processors will be faster than the dual-cores. The performance will depend on several other factors such as cache memory and clock rate.

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Mago said:
No Iris 5100 w/o QuadCore Haswell, its the point, at least the ones I've seen, but if that mistrery 35W (seems an i5) comes with Iris 5100, sure will be for rMBP13 has sense, but that 35W *i5-Iris5100* cpu will be available for Q4, so the only Available Haswell rMBP will be the ones with 47W cpu.

But I Think, that the 13"rMBP will come with 47W QuadCore Haswell, that 35W Haswell maybe targeted at the 13"rMBA as the lower 18W Haswell (both available at Q4) willbe targeted at the 11"rMBA.

Before rMBP the 13"MBP as "pro" means High End CPU, and the 13MBA/MB was the "for every else" lower spct CPU. This Strategy had sense, so If Apple dont want to ditch the 13"MBA, will replace it for an 13"rMBA wich will be escencially an rMBP13 with lower end CPU.

Another thing that I just Noted, is that the "Air/Retina" Branding will dissapear, and we will have STD MacBook (previously MBA) and MacBook Pro (previously rMBP).
Click to expand...

This just doesn't make any sense for me.

Historically, both the 11" and the 13" MBA have used processors with the same TDP (both ULV). There is no reason for Apple to use different TDPs this time. Neither there is any reason for Apple to put a 47W TDP processor in a 13" MBP.

Why will the Air/Retina branding disappear? The retina brand will disappear when all Macs turn retina. But the Air? I don't think so.
 
Mr MM said:
peak power draw? put better VRM in there and its solved along with a larger psu

do you know how much heat the 3520m dissipates? its the same as the 3720qm and the 3820qm
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VRMs with larger dynamic range of step down voltage will require significantly more power, which obays the power sqr law. That would only exacerbate the problem with thermal dissipation, and require better thermal conduction and active heat exchange...

Heat dissipation is diff from peak power draw. With dynamic scaling of different power domains on chip, the sustained power output will be greater for the quads over a significant period of time, given the same voltage, provided no power gating (all cores and other components such as gpu, NB, srq, eviction buffer, mc, etc are active)
 
HardBall said:
VRMs with larger dynamic range of step down voltage will require significantly more power, which obays the power sqr law. That would only exacerbate the problem with thermal dissipation, and require better thermal conduction and active heat exchange...


Heat dissipation is diff from peak power draw. With dynamic scaling of different power domains on chip, the sustained power output will be greater for the quads over a significant period of time, given the same voltage, provided no power gating (all cores and other components such as gpu, NB, srq, eviction buffer, mc, etc are active)
Click to expand...


not really. you can take a look at the np6110/w110er, 11'' 45w quads and 650m on top of that. Or you can take a look at the many mods done on the hp 2xxx range, the 12.5 notebook that can accept 45w quads.

I know power draw is different from heat dissipation, and truly that is besides the point, the limit to power draw is the vrm, install better ones, the limit to power dissipated is the design of the heatsink, which is good. need it? make it better. its simple as that
 
You are not but we had the topic already.
Some people on the web often expect stuff at WWDC which doesn't turn up. Loads of people don't look at more than one variable to make their predictions.
No need to take certain people seriously.
What will definitely show is test and reviews of Haswell. Lots. To show us what Iris Pro is actually good for. Apparently some Haswells are already sold in China. For the good reviews we will have to wait for the NDA though.
 
Mr MM said:
you are imagining things

http://9to5mac.com/2013/05/16/sharp...books/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...1289-forget-intel-ivy-bridge-haswell-way.html

want more?
Click to expand...

Yes... These are just generic news about the upcoming Haswell processor and IGZO display. And some speculation about the possibility of Apple including those in a forthcoming MacBook to be released during WWDC. Nothing concrete. No rumors from the supply chain. No leaks.
 
skaertus said:
Yes... These are just generic news about the upcoming Haswell processor and IGZO display. And some speculation about the possibility of Apple including those in a forthcoming MacBook to be released during WWDC. Nothing concrete. No rumors from the supply chain. No leaks.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Those links are not evidence of anything.

In my opinion based on the investment that Apple has made in to using LG and Samsung for the 15" MBP display I doubt they will switch to IGZO Sharp's for the MBP line. I think they will stick with the displays they have for at-least another year.

And that 2nd link is from a forum post in 2011 and really has nothing to do with Apple it's just discussing Haswell.
 
well, we have some things here:

CPU
GPU
Storage
Display
wifi

those are the things that may or may not change

With the incoming adapters for ac wifi becoming available people speculate towards that, and that broadcom already has an ac adapter...

the gpu is as we know not relevant for this discussion, with the exception of the igpu, given that we still dont have any info on 35w, its either 28w and 47w, very large gap i know

storage is a given that will probably change, there is no common sense on continue that, and given that ngff is getting abroad in the m500 and probable on other OEMs as well, this is a very probable change that will make storage cheaper for apple

Display given the investments that apple made on IGZO is also a certain that as soon as they can get those displays to their standards, they will be put there. Apple didnt dish cash out on those fabrications, they merely bought the displays, its different regarding IGZO. Also samsung have stakes on that tech, Foxconn also has a display plant in partnership with sharp, that is being transformed to make igzo. Not to mention that LG still makes panels for the ipad

CPU that thread is being update with every new info that we have, and since its going to be on apple...

now regarding specific leaks regarding apple pcs, as you all know those are hard to come by and really unreliable

PS: I know its not a lot, but its something
 
Quu said:
Agreed. Those links are not evidence of anything.

In my opinion based on the investment that Apple has made in to using LG and Samsung for the 15" MBP display I doubt they will switch to IGZO Sharp's for the MBP line. I think they will stick with the displays they have for at-least another year.

And that 2nd link is from a forum post in 2011 and really has nothing to do with Apple it's just discussing Haswell.
Click to expand...

According to the news, Sharp is producing three different displays: 11.6" at 2560x1440, 14" at 3200x1800 and 15.6" at 3200x1800. They are all 16:9 displays and none of them fit Apple's notebooks, except for the 11.6" which would be adequate for the smaller MacBook Air.

So, unless Apple plans another redesign of the MacBook Pro line, which is very unlikely at this point, then no, it's not going to adopt these IGZO displays for its laptops.

My guess? Apple will use IGZO displays in the iPhone 6 first.

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Mr MM said:
well, we have some things here:

CPU
GPU
Storage
Display
wifi

those are the things that may or may not change

With the incoming adapters for ac wifi becoming available people speculate towards that, and that broadcom already has an ac adapter...

the gpu is as we know not relevant for this discussion, with the exception of the igpu, given that we still dont have any info on 35w, its either 28w and 47w, very large gap i know

storage is a given that will probably change, there is no common sense on continue that, and given that ngff is getting abroad in the m500 and probable on other OEMs as well, this is a very probable change that will make storage cheaper for apple

Display given the investments that apple made on IGZO is also a certain that as soon as they can get those displays to their standards, they will be put there. Apple didnt dish cash out on those fabrications, they merely bought the displays, its different regarding IGZO. Also samsung have stakes on that tech, Foxconn also has a display plant in partnership with sharp, that is being transformed to make igzo. Not to mention that LG still makes panels for the ipad

CPU that thread is being update with every new info that we have, and since its going to be on apple...

now regarding specific leaks regarding apple pcs, as you all know those are hard to come by and really unreliable

PS: I know its not a lot, but its something
Click to expand...

Abot IGZO displays again... Sharp announced that it will start producing IGZO displays for laptops this year. Look at the news at Sharp website: http://sharp-world.com/corporate/news/130514-6.html

Production is going to start in June 2013, meaning that these displays won't be ready for the announcement of the forthcoming MacBook Pro, especially if it gets unveiled in June during WWDC. And if I were to guess, I would say that laptops will get IGZO displays in Q4 2013 the earliest, and most probably in 2014 (retina MacBook Air then?).
 
the ratio is a matter of calibration

regarding the production date, its really a bummer, but still possible
 
skaertus said:
... and there follows a complete lack of new rumors about any release during WWDC...
Click to expand...

Same happened the last two MacBook refreshes. Different from the iPhone/iPad case, where new components fly around months before release, solid information on the new MBPs only surfaced a week before the official announcement.
 
I think I found the missing 35w cpus

lol and behold the quad

i7 4702MQ/HQ

its equipping the msi ge40 a 14'' notebook

I still dont have tdp measurements, but according to intel past nomenclature those should be 35w or in this case 37w
 
There is an Ivy Bridge 35W CPU. While that one never found much use it would be very strange if they didn't at least offer a Quad Core around that TDP. Seems a no brainer.

Whether there will actually be an HQ (GT3e) would be the more interesting question.
 
dusk007 said:
There is an Ivy Bridge 35W CPU. While that one never found much use it would be very strange if they didn't at least offer a Quad Core around that TDP. Seems a no brainer.

Whether there will actually be an HQ (GT3e) would be the more interesting question.
Click to expand...

there is an HQ

and the 35w quad was widely popular and available, and it was a very cool cpu to boot, much cooler than the dual core i7 35w (3520m/3540m)

for example all of sony notebooks that came with a quad used it, asus used it in the u500, hp used in the g6, dell used it in the xps, vostro...
 
What to expect from Next rMBP's:

  • CPU/CHIPSET: Single Word: HASWELL QuadCore for 15s and maybe as option later for 13s
  • GPU rMBP15 may update it to nVidia 750m or Switch to AMD/ATI 8870M
  • Storage: Just Cheaper, same 256/512/768 options
  • Display: Same Panels, Just Improved Manufacture process No IGZO yet (later Q3 on rMBA)
  • Wifi: 802.11ac
  • Maybe NO HDMI, instead another USB3/Thundebolt
So the NeXT rMBP just willbe a bit cheaper, with much improved Battery Life (maybe upto 9hr), much faster WiFi, and less laggy video.
 
Mago said:
What to expect from Next rMBP's:

  • CPU/CHIPSET: Single Word: HASWELL QuadCore for 15s and maybe as option later for 13s
  • GPU rMBP15 may update it to nVidia 750m or Switch to AMD/ATI 8870M
  • Storage: Just Cheaper, same 256/512/768 options
  • Display: Same Panels, Just Improved Manufacture process No IGZO yet (later Q3 on rMBA)
  • Wifi: 802.11ac
  • Maybe NO HDMI, instead another USB3/Thundebolt
So the NeXT rMBP just willbe a bit cheaper, with much improved Battery Life (maybe upto 9hr), much faster WiFi, and less laggy video.
Click to expand...

+1 except for the gpu, i think will stick with the 650M (because 750m is a bit weaker i heard, so why bother) and we will have a nice hd5000 with new version of macOS with fluent experience, better life batterie and like in last apple products : less heat, so with this little things there will be the perfect macbook pro(power cpu,igpu,batterie,not too much heat,slim,retina and maybe a drop 100$ price)
 
Serban said:
+1 except for the gpu, i think will stick with the 650M (because 750m is a bit weaker i heard, so why bother) and we will have a nice hd5000 with new version of macOS with fluent experience, better life batterie and like in last apple products : less heat, so with this little things there will be the perfect macbook pro(power cpu,igpu,batterie,not too much heat,slim,retina and maybe a drop 100$ price)
Click to expand...

Don't believe Apple will not update the discrete GPU, its a no sense, BTW reading the news about the new IGZO production and its timing, we may understand that the rMBP 15 will incorporate that, but maybe not available at least until august (matching usb3bug-less HASWELL chipset availabilty with new IGZO panels), and maybe the rMBP15 have a bit wider body since the 15.6" IGZO is a bit wider, that coincide with rumours about revised body and ports (Haswell allows 4 USB3 - IVI only 2), Apple doesnt like HDMI and may drop it.

Lets see the WWDC, but seems consistent the versions about the Updated Haswell rMBP will not be available until Q3 (august at least).
 
Last edited:
if the iris is power enough, i expect that apple remove the discrete gpu to fit more batterie
 
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