Macbook Pro - Eyestrain

[JajoPGH]

I appreciate you guys trying to help me out, but it really isn't working.

Well, I tried the antialiasing trick, but I just don't want my text non-aliased.

I tried the calibration, it helped slightly, but nothing more.

I'm not sure what I am supposed to do. Should I return this thing and get a 15 inch? That's a few hundred dollars I can just as easily put through to an external display.

I really want to get used to this. But my eyes feel fatigued, and it's taking away from my enjoyment of this machine. I love it every other way except this eye problem. Could it all be in my head????

Hmm.

 

[montom]

I really want to get used to this. But my eyes feel fatigued, and it's taking away from my enjoyment of this machine. I love it every other way except this eye problem. Could it all be in my head????

If you're within the two week return window, it's better to return it than be stuck with eye soreness for months and months and then face a big loss in selling it elsewhere.

If your eyes are already fatigued, that's a physiological rather than psychological thing, and I doubt one can get used to it. Maybe you can get used to the fatigue, but not like your eyes will get used to the screen and stop being fatigued.

For all we know, the next 13" MBP revision could offer a matte screen option. I really hope so. If that happens, I'll buy one and be very happy. If Apple wants to do glass, they should at least add some kind of anti-reflective coating or make it wavy like on the white macbook.

Myself, I'm thinking either: get a white macbook, get a pre-glass Macbook Pro 15" from ebay, save up and get a matte unibody 15", or hang onto my money until the next revisions and see if the 13" gets matte. Could also do a mac mini with lcd of my choosing, but I'd prefer portability.

For now my g4 powerbook will have to do, as there's no way I can keep typing on the MBP only to feel like my eyes are swollen. I think the MBP is great if all you do is watch movies and youtube, but reading ebooks and word processing... no way.

 

[JajoPGH]

I am still not used to this, and I wonder if I ever will be.

I am thinking about returning it and getting a 15 inch antiglare. I really, really don't want to do that though due to the money factor. I previously stated I'd rather spend those funds on an external display.

Do you think a 15" will be easier on my eyes since there will be more real estate than a 13"? The text would be bigger, so maybe my eyes would be more relaxed?

I am confused. I'd have to take this thing back to Best Buy, and I received an iPod with it. My wife is already making great use out of it, and I feel bad to take it from her if I have to return the MBP. Since Best Buy doesn't have the antiglare model, I would have to go to the Apple Store to buy, and I'm assuming they won't offer the iPod deal again.

Man, this sucks. I could hardly wait to get this computer...now this.

 

[JajoPGH]

I really hate to come off as a desperate idiot, but in this instance, I may have to.

Does anyone have any other recommendations for me at this time? Do you think the smaller text and smaller screen as a whole on the 13 inch has something to do with my eye strain? I mean, most of the time I don't even notice the glare to be honest. Perhaps it's the high resolution on a smaller screen that is making me hurt.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or comments? Thank you.

 

[montom]

I really hate to come off as a desperate idiot, but in this instance, I may have to.

Does anyone have any other recommendations for me at this time? Do you think the smaller text and smaller screen as a whole on the 13 inch has something to do with my eye strain? I mean, most of the time I don't even notice the glare to be honest. Perhaps it's the high resolution on a smaller screen that is making me hurt.

Does anyone have any other thoughts or comments? Thank you.

Have you tried turning brightness way down to less than 50%?

Or you can try changing the screen resolution (Sys Prefs -> Display) but things may appear fuzzy and you'll have the desktop real estate of a netbook.

Maybe an anti-glare film that people aren't loudly complaining about (if such a thing exists).

Maybe brighter lighting in your room where you use it, especially onto the wall behind the computer, so that your eyes receive more ambient light instead of having the screen be the brightest thing. This could be as simple as changing desk lamp position.

Or, alternatively, darker lighting to reduce glare, while turning screen brightness down to minimize glare and brightness.

Some people have used sunglasses.

Well, if you cannot return it, then maybe get an external monitor that suits your eyes (I myself would get a Dell S2209W from Best Buy), then use this laptop for X number of months with the monitor, until Apple hopefully comes out with anti-glare option, then sell this one on craigslist or ebay, and buy the newer model. If you use an external mouse and keyboard, you can keep the MBP hidden and pretend you have a Mac Mini.

If you get a 15" uMBP, real estate won't make a difference if it's still a glassy screen. I think the pixel density/size is about the same as the 13". Only reason to get a 15" is to order the anti-glare option. But for that, right now you could get a previous-gen (non-unibody) 15" macbook pro (2.4 or 2.5 Ghz) that had the matte screens. Those are going for $800-$1000 on ebay, but of course no Apple Care usually. That's an option if money is an issue, since brand new uMBP with anti-glare is like $1700.

 

[darkus]

I'm getting eyestrain, headaches, and mild motion sickness with my 13" Macbook Pro Summer 2009.

So far I have traced it down to the following causes:

1) The mirror-like gloss: Each eye sees two different reflections, which is disorienting, and the reflection bounces when the laptop is in motion, like when typing on a table that wiggles a little. This causes motion sickness, as in headache and nausea. The reflections these MBPs are much higher than the white Macbook, I'd say about 5-10x brighter.

2) The black bezel, high brightness, and high contrast: the blacks are really black, meaning your iris opens wider to let in more light, but then the brights are really bright, so your retina gets hit with sharp patches of light, causing eye pain and headaches.

3) Strong pixel-walk issue: Versus my old powerbook, there is a noticeable flicker or shimmer on the MBP due to uneven common-voltage being sent to the LCD pixels. The flicker is 30Hz, imagine what that's doing to your brainwaves. See explanation here: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/inversion.php

Short of returning this MBP, I have handled the above effects by:

1) turning down brightness to 50%

2) then calibrating using advanced settings, making sure that white point is made warmer (6000k) and that the gamma is set around 2.0-2.2.

The gloss glare is still a problem. I haven't tried an anti-glare film yet, though I heard it makes everything look grainy. Anyone have experience with that?

Also the 30Hz flicker remains a problem, although turning down the brightness and calibrating the gamma to make lower contrast reduces it somewhat.

Apple needs to do something about the gloss on these 13" MBPs, like offer a matte option, or some anti-glare coating on the glass. Had no idea how glossy these things were. I'm contemplating returning this laptop still, since my G4 Powerbook is so much easier to look at... can stare at it for 10 hours straight and not get eye strain. Yet this MBP, just 10 minutes at factory settings causes my eyes to feel like they're getting gouged out with a spork. After applying the above changes, now I can look at it for maybe an hour before the same happens.

I had the identical experience, so I've gone back to my aluminum MBP and now im trying to source a few on ebay because with the trend apple is following, it seems like i will never be able to buy a new MBP again Going to have to keep my alu MBP alive for a long time..

 

[EndlessMac]

I haven't read this whole thread but I had eye strains due to the really high resolution of my MBP. I solved the problem by increasing the minimum font size on web browsers, increased the viewing zoom size (not actually font type sizes) in word processors, and made the folders and fonts sizes in Finder larger. Not every application will allow me to increase sizes so it's not the perfect solution and some things look a little weird when you can only increase the font size and nothing else.

Increasing font sizes seems to help the most because reading requires a lot of eye concentration which I believe causes my eye strain. I've noticed my eyes relaxes more while reading larger text and I don't need reading glasses so that's not while I like reading larger text.

This is why I'm surprised when some people keep asking for larger resolutions on future laptops. Everything is getting so tiny in these large resolution screens. Even when I increase the fonts sizes other things like buttons and other parts of the application are tiny to look at. Laptop screens only look sharp at their native resolutions so you can't really go to a lower resolution like CRT monitors.

 

[mepnomon]

Eyestrain, it's because of the LED screen

How would I go about trying to adjust the font smoothing or calibrate the screen? BTW I am loving the change already running Adium, Apple Mail, Growl, Quicksilver and TextExpander.

The macbook pro's backlit LED screen is the actual culprit behind your eye-strain. Its's neither the font smoothing, nor the magical ding-dong that can be fixed by simply adjusting to the impeccable mac lifestyle. The backlight flickers and your eyes are obviously reacting to it in an adverse manner. There are few remedies for it, apart from using an external screen. Judging by the age of your post, you might have already realized that there's always something wrong with macs - and sadly it's usually one of the components that matters most...

Don't despair though, as the hardened fanboys on here will tell you that it's just Apple's way of showing you how much they love and appreciate you.

You might want to look into using flux, which adjusts your screen's color to the lighting depending on what time of the day it is, although it isn't going to make much of a difference either. You might also try and crank your screen's brightness to maximum in an effort to suppress the flicker - and wreck your eyes completely in the process.
You may also resort to buying a pair of glasses, I'd say go for the most expensive pair, that complements your notebook's design; or simply revert to reading print.

 

[brentsg]

No offense, but you really have no idea what is causing someone else's eye strain. Just because something is true for someone else doesn't make it universal.

For what it's worth, the LED screens have been a blessing for me. I could never use the CCFL displays without problems.

Also, why are you replying to an ancient post?

 

[Vazkor]

I work in a strange field called orthoptics which deal with eyestrain. The main culprit here is distance, keep your Mac away from you and your eyes will feel better. Of course a larger screen can help you.

 

[shelhed217]

You may already know this but what I do when browsing the web is "command-plus" to make the font on the page bigger. I'm sorry to hear about your issues

 

[entatlrg]

What the experts say ...

On the Glossy versus AG debate if you go by what the experts, (Optometrists and Ergonomics Specialists) say, they recommend the use of AG screens over Glossy.

Claiming the glare / reflection from the Glossy causes eyestrain.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

Depending on the working environment, one might also want to consider lowering the brightness of the screen to a more comfortable level. I mean staring at the screen at maximum brightness is definitely going to been very stressful for the eyes. No?

 

[adrian1480]

Try F.lux

http://stereopsis.com/flux/

it's wonderful and may address your issue.

 

[adnoh]

I had the same problem when I switched, you get used to it after a while

 

[lximenez]

terrible eye strain too. Had to return my unit

Hi everyone, I've followed carefully this email thread and sadly I must report that I am also one of those who can't stand behind the MBP LED screen longer than 30 min. I've tried everything indicated in this and many other forums with no luck

After not even 30 min working with the laptop I suffer from big headaches, eye strain... followed by disorientation and a painful feeling that last for a day or two. Tried the trick of leaving brightness to the max, resulting in two days seeing things including a big light even during sleep. Tried flux, it definitely aliviates but not enough. 3 days of practicing everything and making myself believe that "it will go away & my eyes will adapt" but just managed to feel really bad. Went to a professional doctor and after a deep review he told me there is nothing wrong with my eyes. All okay. Went back again to the MBP and the feeling goes from bad to worse.

Guys, regretably I tried everything and no other choice than returning the unit to the applestore. Health goes first and sadly my system can't take this amount of light. I must say that I've been working with PCs for 12 years now on an 9h daily basis and zero problems. It is just these macs...

Now that I don't have it (I miss it already, wonderful machine!) I must say that I don't believe that even if you don't noticed any disturbance this will be healthy for anyone. How come that 20min behind a pc causes migrain, headaches, motion sickness and even nausea??? honestly I don't understand it and there should be something else.

I'd like also to hear from apple what do they think? I'll be more than happy to buy this great laptop again if they address the issue. Just an LCD screen option? a fix for this maybe since it only happens to me when using LED Mac screens? There is something odd in here.

Luis

PS: I did my research before buying and paid the extra 150 for the antiglare matte screen. Same same....

 

[brentsg]

Now that I don't have it (I miss it already, wonderful machine!) I must say that I don't believe that even if you don't noticed any disturbance this will be healthy for anyone. How come that 20min behind a pc causes migrain, headaches, motion sickness and even nausea??? honestly I don't understand it and there should be something else.

I'd like also to hear from apple what do they think? I'll be more than happy to buy this great laptop again if they address the issue. Just an LCD screen option? a fix for this maybe since it only happens to me when using LED Mac screens? There is something odd in here.

So because it bothers your eyes you think it's bad for everyone? Uhh ok.. whatever. When I drive my wife's car my back hurts, so I guess nobody should drive it.

Anyways, more seriously..

I'm guessing you tried to turn DOWN the brightness? You mentioned that you used it on max, which is something I couldn't do without discomfort.

It could simply be that your eyes don't like the anti-glare Apple uses, or the resolution is a bit too high.

Also, when I first tried using LCDs my eyes hurt to the point that I missed some work. It took 2 different doctors and multiple visits to diagnose what was wrong with my eyes. Doctors deal with probabilities, so if your issue happens to be something that isn't terribly common then the odds of them finding it straightaway are very slim.

In the end, you might want to try another manufacturer's LED backlight to see if that technology disagrees with you in some manner. I know that it's better for me, and CCFL displays cause me additional strain. We're all different.

 

[nebulos]

Font Smoothing:

Windows puts an emphasis on sharpness/readability of text, at the cost of the font's true shape.

OS X puts the emphasis on font accuracy, at the cost of readability; The explanation I read was that Apple did this to give graphic designers a 'best approximation' of what they'd see on the printed page, that is, its a tradition started a long time ago.

In my opinion, Apple font smoothing is AWFUL. I must say, I have to think the defenders are crazy, or haven't used a nice Windows screen. Apple font is VERY FUZZY, even on the high res screens, though its much better on those.

I was on a mac for years and never had a problem with the screen (powerbook), but have been using Windows for a while now. When I look at the mac screens nowadays, the standard 13 and 15 in particular, I'm essentially baffled anyone buys them. Yet, so many do.


Screen Resolution:

Never use anything but the native resolution on your screen. I don't have to mention this; You'll see immediately for yourself how terrible an idea that is. I can only imagine those that suggest this have never tried it themselves.

The higher res screens make everything smaller, but when you zoom in on, say, a browser window, you'll get font that is much more smooth and less fuzzy than on, say, the 13. (The problem is you either 'zoom text only' and jumble the page components, or zoom everything together and then the images look crummy.)

As mentioned above, there are some things on the system you can adjust, but others you can't. Some people find small menu items, etc. intolerable. For others the trade-off is easy; Aside from better zoomed font, you have more screen real estate, which can make a huge difference when working in certain programs.


LED Backligting?

I don't know much about this technically, but I do suspect this has something to do with the unfriendliness of the modern macbook pro screens.


My Experience:

as i said, i was on a powerbook for years with no problems. that died almost two years ago now, and i've been using windows 'temporarily' ever since.

i used a toshiba for a while, at 1440x900 on a 14" screen, but most recently have been using my X61T thinkpad, at 1400x1050 on a 12" screen. Both are older tablet PCs; the useful kind of tablet!!!

My tablets are a bit grainy, but I've never had any eye strain problems on them. The pixel density is very high on my thinkpad and I do have to use it pretty close up but the font is beautifully sharp and very readable.

I'm a musician and have been shopping for a mac for ... (gulp) ... well, ever since the powerbook went. I've looked at the screens, in store, billions of times. The 2010 13" was undesirable in other ways, but this 2011 model is a performer. The jump to the 15" is a hefty one price-wise. If I found the screen on the 13 anything less than terrible, I would buy it (and use it mostly on a monitor).

Sadly, I can not look at that screen for even a minute without feeling absolutely blind, while reading text that is. For me, it will have to be a high res 15. Text is fuzzy on that too though, but its much, much better.

In fact, I just ordered a high res antiglare refurb 15 (that I may return for a quad core) and noticed right away it was weird on my eyes. I will use the machine for a few days and get back to you, but I'm in the same boat (on a high res antiglare); I don't know what it is, but it seems like my eyes don't like something about the screen.


TinkerTool:

http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html

This is a free utility made for OS X that allows you to customize various UI elements. It allows for light, medium, and strong font smoothing settings. Light is much less fuzzy, but unfortunately, also thinner so its not as nice on a white page. Medium seems decent.

I don't know if it really helps matters that much, but you might give it a shot.

If you don't want to download an app, you can achieve these settings via terminal commands; Just do a search for "font smoothing terminal command snow leopard", etc.


... I'll get back to you with my impressions of the HR AG 15 in a few days!

 

[lximenez]

Thanks for your replies guys. For me it is already late since the MBP is back in the shop. I did try all this:

- obviously lower the brightness, nothing...

- calibrate the screen with the config options, no help,

- tried all resolutions. By reducing the resolution all looks easier to read. Eye strain persist... Then set the native resolution and on any application increase the font size. No luck either

- disable font smoothing. No difference

- put some light behind the screen or even place my desk behind the window.


and more stuff I've picked up from these forums. Nothing seemed to be helpful for my case. I kept strong faith that it will go away with the time and it can not be only me. I forgot to mention that this is my 2nd try. Two months ago I got an iMac 27¨ (glossy screen) and got the same result. 1 week later I gave up and returned it, thinking that it was just the huge screen what was hurting my eyes. Gave a second chance with the much smaller MBP 15¨ matte AG and results were even worse...

Don't get me wrong. I know that this happens to only a few, but it is odd to me the nature of this problem. Honestly we can state that some people might be sensitive to Apple LED screens. Is it that we have a delicate sight and we don't tolerate certain levels (our problem) ? or is it that this screens push a bit the light/frequency limits and only strong eyes (the vast majority) will resist it? I've research a bit and I don't find forums where people reports similar problems from other vendors. Is this Mac only? I'd like to hear some official words from

My conclusions are definitely coming from disappointment. I wanted this laptop badly and turned out that it couldn't be. I feel a bit displaced by the fact that my eyes are not good enough for a Mac

 

[HighRes15]

I recall eye strain during the first 1-2 weeks after I got my MBP, the first one ever, after a sequence of low res windows laptops. I'm in my early 30s and have perfect eyesight, all I needed was to increase the browser font sizes a little when needed, and after the initial acclimatization phase, it just went away. But it did strike me that others may have a much greater problem with it.

 

[tdream]

.

 

[tdream]

Windows way of rendering is simply better for reading. It's the sub pixel blurriness that's affecting people. Windows makes the character fit within the pixel structure whereas Mac opts for more accurate yet blurry pixel precision. The result is very noticeable when I connect my macbook to my 30 inch 2560x1600 monitor. The windows desktop just looks more crisp and fine than the OSX equivalent. Which is very disappointing for Mac users.

Try F.lux

http://stereopsis.com/flux/

it's wonderful and may address your issue.

Great app, it also works with Windows pcs. So you can have sharp text with nice temperature at the same time



This problem will be solved when Apple release iphone 4 like dpi screens.

 

[nebulos]

Great app, it also works with Windows pcs. So you can have sharp text with nice temperature at the same time

i've been using this. interesting, and i like it, but how is this related to the sharpness of text? EDIT: Oh, do you mean, since its for Windows too?

This problem will be solved when Apple release iphone 4 like dpi screens.

i'd love that, but i think its been said this is practically impossible.


*******************************

to follow up, i've had this 2010 MBP for a few days now and ...

i think i hate the screen.

as i've been waiting to buy a MBP for over a year, this would be a really crazy and sad end; not only will i most likely return it, i may not buy an apple laptop at all*.

i think it's two things i don't like:

1. text is fuzzy; even though this is the high res, antiglare model. yes, i know many say, and i might agree, that text is fuzzier on the antiglare, but its not much better, if any, on the glossy.

2. LED backlighting is crazy. i dont know if i can quantify it, but i think this is really harsh and/or weird on my eyes, at all brightness settings.


... i have no problems on my admittedly, very high res, non-LED windows laptop; i put bootcamp on the MBP, to no avail; the screen and text still look awful to me, even in Windows.

AM I CRAZY?!?!

hardly anyone complains about this! me, the OP, and like 3 other people on the planet!

have you ever felt any discomfort from your MBP display?

did you used to have a non-LED screen laptop before switching to the LED backlit MBP?

* as a last resort, i may try to get a modest pre-LED white macbook or something. if not that, i may have to try to the music/art thing in windows after all.

 

[brentsg]

AM I CRAZY?!?!

have you ever felt any discomfort from your MBP display?

did you used to have a non-LED screen laptop before switching to the LED backlit MBP?

* as a last resort, i may try to get a modest pre-LED white macbook or something. if not that, i may have to try to the music/art thing in windows after all.

No, everyone's just different.

I've never felt any discomfort from any Apple display, though I've had significant issue with other CCFL anti-glare displays. I've wondered if it's related to the anti-glare or the CCFL but I've never figured it out.

I've owned a number of laptops over the years and I vastly prefer the screens on the current MBP line than any others. Of course there is still room for improvement (IPS, etc).

 

[nebulos]

... i guess i should add that i've certainly looked around at PCs at best buy and the screens only look worse.

... which lends credence to the 'i am crazy' theory, or that i'm being hyper picky at least.

i don't know.

i had a powerbook for years and never had a problem with the screen.

^thanks for the reply!