MacBook Pro for massive virtualization

[schism2675]

I would like to buy a MacBook Pro for professional use. In particular I make massive use of virtual machines, I need to pull up several labs to test some architectures. And at least one vm must be dedicated to Win10 for business reasons. So in total at least 5 Vm simultaneously active. Obviously they must not be super performing (1 processor and 4GB are ok) except for Win10.

I have seen these 2 interesting:

-MacBook Pro 13inch 2020 i7 with 32 GB
-MacBook Pro 16inch 2019 i9 with 32/64 GB

For the first one, I don't know if the processor which is a quad core, can sustain all those active VMs at the same time, without going into pain.

For the second one I'm scared of the problems that I read around, even in this forum, about overheating problems especially with external monitor (which of course I use).

What would you suggest me? Or, given the use I should direct my attention to other brands (and also OS host) ?

thank you!

 

[poked]

Windows for a windows VM. Only dedicated server hosting machine recommended for Macs right now is a Mac Pro, and those are roughly $20k.

 

[schism2675]

Mac Pro seems excessive to me. I don't need to host virtual machines that provide some kind of service, just machines that serve lab purposes, which will often be destroyed and recreated. The only constraint is that I can keep 4-5 together without major problems. I'm looking for a laptop because I need to take it with me to work.

 

[poked]

Mac Pro seems excessive to me. I don't need to host virtual machines that provide some kind of service, just machines that serve lab purposes, which will often be destroyed and recreated. The only constraint is that I can keep 4-5 together without major problems. I'm looking for a laptop because I need to take it with me to work.

Then it would depend on the programs you’ll be using and how they natively integrate with Apples systems. Otherwise I’d stay strictly windows with a laptop.

 

[JohnHa]

One word: Proxmox

 

[adib]

I would like to buy a MacBook Pro for professional use. In particular I make massive use of virtual machines, I need to pull up several labs to test some architectures. And at least one vm must be dedicated to Win10 for business reasons. So in total at least 5 Vm simultaneously active. Obviously they must not be super performing (1 processor and 4GB are ok) except for Win10.

I have seen these 2 interesting:

-MacBook Pro 13inch 2020 i7 with 32 GB
-MacBook Pro 16inch 2019 i9 with 32/64 GB

For the first one, I don't know if the processor which is a quad core, can sustain all those active VMs at the same time, without going into pain.

For the second one I'm scared of the problems that I read around, even in this forum, about overheating problems especially with external monitor (which of course I use).

What would you suggest me? Or, given the use I should direct my attention to other brands (and also OS host) ?

thank you!

Sounds like you need a dedicated Linux box. One that's designed to run on AC power, and not a laptop. Have a look at Mini ITX boxes that can host 128GB of RAM. Like this one.

 

[kschendel]

If you really need a portable solution, I think the 2020 i7 would be workable. I'm not familiar with the i9 heat issues so I hesitate to say more about that one. The i7 is 4 core/8 thread and unless your 5 active VM's are really crunching away 100% cpu, I think end results will be OK if not spectacular.

 

[theMarble]

I think that the 16" would work really well for virtualisation, it has high-core count CPU's, large amounts of RAM and SSD storage. Some of the heat concerns don't apply as you can get the base 5300M GPU which doesn't heat up as much. However that doesn't get rid of the fact that the 16" is a 2-generation old laptop.

 

[adib]

I think that the 16" would work really well for virtualisation, it has high-core count CPU's, large amounts of RAM and SSD storage. Some of the heat concerns don't apply as you can get the base 5300M GPU which doesn't heat up as much. However that doesn't get rid of the fact that the 16" is a 2-generation old laptop.

I have the i7 15" 2018 with 32GB of RAM. That one heats up quite a lot. I need an external cooler whenever I use that with an external monitor for more than a few hours or so. Otherwise it throttles down to an unusable level.

 

[theMarble]

I have the i7 15" 2018 with 32GB of RAM. That one heats up quite a lot. I need an external cooler whenever I use that with an external monitor for more than a few hours or so. Otherwise it throttles down to an unusable level.

Yes, I'd say all 2016-2019 MacBook Pro's have overheating problems, especially the 2018/19 15" like you have. I believe that is the worst affected, Apple was putting 6/8-core CPU's and high-heat-output graphics chips into a thin and light ultrabook. No wonder they overheat like crazy.

Apple says that the 16" has "30% better cooling than previous models" but I don't think that's the case. I hear just as many people talking about their 16" overheating as 15" butterfly users are.

 

[schism2675]

Sounds like you need a dedicated Linux box. One that's designed to run on AC power, and not a laptop. Have a look at Mini ITX boxes that can host 128GB of RAM. Like this one.

I already have an iMac as a desktop for this utilization, but I need to use lab when I'm at a client's and often without a connection.

 

[schism2675]

Yes, I'd say all 2016-2019 MacBook Pro's have overheating problems, especially the 2018/19 15" like you have. I believe that is the worst affected, Apple was putting 6/8-core CPU's and high-heat-output graphics chips into a thin and light ultrabook. No wonder they overheat like crazy.

Apple says that the 16" has "30% better cooling than previous models" but I don't think that's the case. I hear just as many people talking about their 16" overheating as 15" butterfly users are.

This is one of the reasons why I had strong doubts about the 16'.

I'll probably opt for the 13', even if with the quad-core I won't be able to run more than 3/4 VMs simultaneously without it becoming unusable.

 

[adib]

I already have an iMac as a desktop for this utilization, but I need to use lab when I'm at a client's and often without a connection.

Mini ITX boxes are ~20x20x6 cm, and can be powered by 12V DC. In other words, its about the size of a Mac Mini and you can power it using laptop power banks. Add a portable screen, keyboard, and mouse and you're ready to go. The total package would be smaller than the Original (1984) Mac.

 

[schism2675]

Mini ITX boxes are ~20x20x6 cm, and can be powered by 12V DC. In other words, its about the size of a Mac Mini and you can power it using laptop power banks. Add a portable screen, keyboard, and mouse and you're ready to go. The total package would be smaller than the Original (1984) Mac.

I'm sorry but this is not a viable and practical option for me.

- I often have meetings in different rooms
- I don't always have a fixed place to stand
- I often don't have my desk at my disposal
- When I travel for work I need to work while travelling. On the train there is no space to put a portable screen, and it is not practical.
- When I'm at home, I want to have the freedom of not having to sit at a desk. For example, if I do something in the evening, I will do it from the sofa.

So definitely I don't want a Mac Mini.

 

[adib]

I'm sorry but this is not a viable and practical option for me.

- I often have meetings in different rooms
- I don't always have a fixed place to stand
- I often don't have my desk at my disposal
- When I travel for work I need to work while travelling. On the train there is no space to put a portable screen, and it is not practical.
- When I'm at home, I want to have the freedom of not having to sit at a desk. For example, if I do something in the evening, I will do it from the sofa.

So definitely I don't want a Mac Mini.

None of Apple's offerings today can meet your strict demands. It's best you look somewhere else.

VMs usually have at least ~50% overhead, thus 4 GB* 1.5 overhead * 5 = 30GB. Big Sur needs ~6GB to run comfortably. Plus you're likely need to run some apps in the host machine. That's just the RAM requirements, not including processor usage.

So a custom-order 64GB 16" MBP is the only option you have. Assuming you can cool it on the road while traveling on the train – which is unlikely with 5 VMs running simultaneously. Also battery life won't be great with all those load.

 

[bigrell486]

I'm sorry but this is not a viable and practical option for me.

- I often have meetings in different rooms
- I don't always have a fixed place to stand
- I often don't have my desk at my disposal
- When I travel for work I need to work while travelling. On the train there is no space to put a portable screen, and it is not practical.
- When I'm at home, I want to have the freedom of not having to sit at a desk. For example, if I do something in the evening, I will do it from the sofa.

So definitely I don't want a Mac Mini.

You haven't stated why the host needs to be a mac so I will assume that it is a matter of personal preference. I would say that because this is a tool that you intend to use for professional purposes you would be far better off getting a workstation laptop designed for things like this. Function over form. You have a use case where the current Mac offerings may be impractical.

 

[schism2675]

You haven't stated why the host needs to be a mac so I will assume that it is a matter of personal preference. I would say that because this is a tool that you intend to use for professional purposes you would be far better off getting a workstation laptop designed for things like this. Function over form. You have a use case where the current Mac offerings may be impractical.

In fact my request was aimed to get an advice on whether one of the two Intel Macbook pro options would meet my needs or would it be better to look at other brands. It definitely wasn't aimed at buying a desktop as I'm looking for a laptop. So the insistence on getting a Mac Mini is not helpful to me.
I didn't specify that it was for business purposes, I assumed that was clear from the type of need.

Clearly I have a preference towards Apple, which I've used for years, even for work purposes (I loved my glorious MacBook 15 pro middle 2012). Over the last few years I've been forced to use windows laptops, (HP Elitebook G740) and despite not being as powerful I've still managed to get 3 virtual machines running together. But I don't like it.
But your advice is greatly appreciated

 

[kschendel]

What will your VM's be doing? If they are all chugging away with max memory and CPU usage simultaneously, I'd look elsewhere. I can run a couple VirtualBox VM's on my 16GB late 2013 quad-core without any issue, unless I expect each one to be running a heavy I/O and compute load simultaneously and then the real problem is I/O bandwidth more than CPU. Unless your 5 VM's max out memory and are all busy at the same time, I think a 4-core 32GB laptop would do the job for you.

 

[mj_]

The feasibility of this depends on what those VMs will be doing. As we all know a VM in and of itself doesn't cause any load as such. It's the operating system and applications within that do. Unfortunately, you've been very vague as to what operating system they'll be running, what applications they'll be running, whether they all need to run simultaneously, and whether the load expected by these VMs will be serial or parallel load.

In theory, even the quad-core 13" MacBook Pro should be capable of running four or five VMs simultaneously assuming they all idle quietly in the background. If, however, each one of them strains its virtual CPU to 100% and they all do that simultaneously you can do the math yourself what that'll do to your hypervisor host.