While I do believe that, i don't think its fair to take away good food simply because people who can't cook anything more than a Pop-tart could burn their house down.
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MacBook Pro Lineup Set For 'Most Significant Overhaul in Over 4 Years'
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While I do believe that, i don't think its fair to take away good food simply because people who can't cook anything more than a Pop-tart could burn their house down.
Something akin to changing the batteries in your remote control should not be considered "micromanaging" for god's sake. Apple has made it that easy to change hard drives and/or RAM in the past but has decided in more recent years to make such simple options a royal pain in the butt for no other reason than they make more money selling overpriced RAM and hard drives and stand to make more money with planned obsolescence. THAT is the reason the relatively upgradeable 2012 Mac Mini was made 10x more difficult to work with and no longer offers dual-drives and quad-core i7s processors so they can try and PUSH you to buy a $2300+ iMac instead with higher profit margins.
In other words, let's be honest about the REAL reasons Apple does things. It may make better short-term profit sense for them to do some of these things, but tick off your informed consumers long enough and you start to lose them. Apple, however has a history of attracting certain groups of people that see them more like a religion than using any common sense and thus the only reason I can contemplate the constant defending of every bone-head move Apple makes in terms of the consumer on here. Yes, if you're only buying Apple stock, you might be OK with what they do (until it affects long-term sales), but as a consumer of the products, you'd think people would be a bit more discerning.
The ironic thing is most people that are casual computer users now use smart phones anyway so it's all the more reason to bring desktop/notebook computers back to designs that are for true hobbyists and/or professionals that shouldn't have to replace the entire computer every other year just to upgrade one component.
I'm not saying it's the consumers fault that Apple won't offer something (some of us use OS X for security reasons and things like Logic Pro for example), but it IS their fault if they defend the status quo as if people LIKE getting ripped off.
I've been asking for another PowerMac-like option for a long time now (My quad-i7 2012 Mac Mini which is easy to upgrade except for the CPU/GPU) is starting to get a bit long in the tooth and I've been waiting for something...anything to replace it with that's not a $2300+ piece of overpriced crap. I wouldn't mind paying $2300 for an up-to-date Mac Pro with a replaceable graphics card that I could get 4-6 years use out of, but paying $2300+ for a Mac Pro that will be out of date in terms of CPU/GPU power in ONE year is ridiculous. Yes, some need that XENON processor, but that doesn't make excuses for the fact we have NO Mac model ("desktop" or otherwise with a decent GPU option) and therefore NO OPTIONS for those that need them other than to switch platforms. "NO ONE WANTS SUCH A COMPUTER" is the argument given over and over again. How in the hell do you know THAT? "Well, Apple knows best so it must be true." That's utterly ridiculous. People buy Macs for whatever reason (security, better iPhone integration, prefer the GUI, etc.), but that doesn't mean they agree with their hardware options. If they could get something better, they would. I get tired of people defending the indefensible because they are fanatics, not because anything they say is true.
I'm sorry, but that argument makes NO SENSE. Apple doesn't decide to purposely make their new Mac Mini 10x harder to upgrade because it's easier for them. They already had a design that was relatively easy to upgrade. They went out of their way with more work to redesign it so it would be FAR HARDER to upgrade for no other reason than forced obsolescence and therefore more MONEY for them (and yet offered nothing "better" to those of us that had a quad-i7 except a slightly better GPU leaving us with no upgrade to even buy). Yes, that makes some business "sense" in a pure monetary return category, but it's also the same reason most people HATE CORPORATIONS because they have no souls and do nothing for the consumer unless they're forced to. The idea of making a superior product that consumers will LOVE means nothing if they think they can get away with forcing you to buy something that makes them more money and your life more difficult.
There's a difference between "most" and "many". There was a time when computer users were true hobbyists and actually interested in learning about the technology they were using. They were far more educated on how to use the system and its contents. Today the race is to be the most "user friendly" and therefore appeal to the least common denominators but in an age where huge numbers had to look up the definition of the word "denominator" in a recent comment by Stephen Hawking about the current US elections, I would say the education system has utterly FAILED to do its job. One should not have a high school diploma if they don't know WTF the word denominator means given it's a part of BASIC 3rd grade-esque math.
It not that the masses HAVE to be clueless (due to an inability to comprehend) but rather that too many CHOOSE to be that way. I see so many that aren't using their potential and most are choosing to be that lazy and then asking society to hand them everything on a silver plate anyway (hello $15 inflation driving minimum wage). Yeah, I have a problem with that. You should too. Smart phones are enabling people to be even lazier, more self-centered and traditional things like driving no longer appeal to someone that is constantly obsessing over their social media pages. Who wants to go out and learn new skills that could lead to a better paying job or saving money at home when they can tweet someone about the sandwich they're eating?
The fact that you think billions of people cook pop-tarts in toasters proves your correlation incorrect
You apparently cannot tell the difference between "anything more complicated than a pop-tart in a toaster" and just "a pop-tart in a toaster". In other words, the pop-tart was just an example of their inability to cook even the most basic things, not to mean that's the only thing people eat.
In other words, your point is incorrect based on misreading basic grammar.
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Show me on the doll where Apple touched you.
You've already come to your very firm conclusions about Apple's motivations, so I'll not bother trying to interrupt your circular reasoning.
So, let's ignore things like how many RAM sockets go bad, or other engineering decisions based on actual use patterns and points of failure and barriers to performance improvements and just assume they ONLY do things for money and to **** over the tiny minority of hobbyists like yourself who want to tinker with desktop towers anymore. Shouldn't you be building a hackintosh with a bunch of cables and sockets and OEM parts from Fry's and bragging about how much time you spent and money you saved making your frankenstein PC? Wait, why are you in the MBP thread again?
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Haha classic rant of a raving looney
So is it ok in your world for Apple to solder a Bluetooth chip to a motherboard, or should it be in a socket so that it can get easily replaced if there is a problem?
Is it ok for Apple to solder the a10 chip directly onto the motherboard and take the 20% speed increase and reduced overall thickness? Or does the iPhone have to run on AAA batteries like your TV remote?
Tim is actually pushing us all to become power Mac users by forcing us to learn to microsolder.
Ok, perhaps forcing was the wrong choice of word, Apple is hamstringing their products to the detriment of the brand by reducing choice.
I am moving towards ditching Apple if they keep on the track of annoying users.
More significantly perhaps, the anonymous source claims the new MacBook Pros will feature more powerful and efficient graphics processors for "expert users such as video gamers".
As reported previously, the switch to the new Polaris 11 architecture is expected to be a significant performance upgrade over the previous 28nm chips, with AMD promising "console-class GPU performance for thin and light notebooks" and "extraordinary VR experiences" from the new low-power mobile architecture.
Is it possible, even likely, in light of news in the last 48 hours, that the reference to a "more powerful and efficient graphics processors for 'expert users such as video gamers'" is a reference to AMD's Vega 10 gpu, which reportedly has been moved up from an early 2017 release to an October 2016 release?
There were supposedly hints this might happen earlier in the year.
Hobbyist? LOL. I'm an Electronic Engineer with two degrees in the field and work on industrial electronic equipment every work day. Exactly what are YOUR qualifications on the subject?
I dunno, shouldn't you be drinking apple flavored Kool-Aid right now?
I know why I'm here. I'm here to talk about potential of the new Macs. You, in my opinion, based on this response seem to be here to try and put down other people that don't agree with your views.
Perhaps we need something like an 'Appletini' forum where others like yourself with little apparent knowledge about anything technical can express your beliefs about faulty ram sockets, plastic battery and hard drive doors that might somehow break and how industrial strength glue is NEEDED to cut down on vibrations and so they need to glue the cases shut. They simply must also use non-standard screws that require oddball tools to remove because you might injure yourself if you tried to open an iPhone and change that dangerous battery yourself. iPhones can't have SD memory card slots either because hey, why not pay $300 more for an extra 64GB of storage when you can buy a 200GB micro-SD card for $99 Oh that's right. Apple obviously has your best interests in mind because that slot might be unreliable and cause a fire or something and burn your underpants or something equally ridiculous.
(Oh wait the overheated battery/fire has happened in a few cases regardless of any compartment). Meanwhile, I decided to get away from the iOS market (given the high cost of hardware and short shelf life of each model before it's outdated). My new (and highly unpopular because people like to spend $700 for a $200 phone) Lumia phone has a removable battery that already has far more battery life than any iPhone and an SD card (currently with a 200GB card in it). It's SO unreliable.
That's about what it takes to upgrade newer designs. I had to remove a lot of small screws on my 2008 Macbook Pro to upgrade the hard drive (and again later to replace a defective fan), but that was largely the extent of it other than disconnecting some connectors that gently pull or pry apart. But the ram slot was a simple slide in/out affair on it with a door for just that purpose. I could buy RAM much cheaper myself and upgrade later with zero difficulty. The same is true of the battery compartment which a simple battery connection where you can easily change the battery on the fly if needed (later designs your SOL if you run the battery down).
But go ahead. Make up some more excuses about failing sockets (after all, solder connections directly to RAM chips are never defective by comparison to soldering a socket in instead
)A raving looney, eh? Somehow I don't think that remark fits the posting guidelines.
I'm not really that concerned with Bluetooth chips on a Macbook Pro one way or another. I mostly use Bluetooth with my phone to give me a hands-free phone environment in the car. I don't really use it on my notebook. I see no reason for it to not use a socket (at a cost of perhaps 20 cents over direct soldering), but then it's probably not going to be replaced or upgraded regardless. It's simply not that important in a notebook or do you listen to wireless headphones or use wireless keyboards with a notebook a lot?
I don't recall ever talking about the A10 CPU (nor has any phone based product EVER had an upgradeable CPU on ANY smart phone I know of). This thread is about the Macbook Pro. And WTF does the A10 have to do with a removable battery for god's sake? And WTF does AAA batteries have to do with smart phone batteries? It's actually EASIER to change a smart phone battery that's removable than AAA batteries as there's only ONE battery to change instead of 2-4.
I realize it might possibly be hard for someone to compare the simplicity of changing a remote control battery with a phone or notebook battery (neither takes much skill at all) because it would require a tiny bit of effort to make a mental comparison, but I try to assume most people capable of doing this on here.
Personally, I went with a Microsoft Lumia phone (because I didn't feel like spending $700 on a smart phone when I don't live my life on social media) and it has a much higher powered battery to begin with and its easily removed/replaced in a snap case design around the core of the phone. The phone is still not very thick at all and it has a nice micro-SD card slot as well (currently filled with a 200GB SD memory card giving me more storage than any iPhone ever released at a tiny fraction of the cost). It suits my phone needs and the occasional web or news browsing with fine Bluetooth music/phone support and 720P video for movies/tv shows on flights. But a phone and a notebook are two different things. I couldn't care less about the iPhone. In fact, I think the iPhone is the reason the Mac OS and hardware updates are so pathetic compared to years past.
Haha classic rant of a raving looney
A raving looney, eh?
I'm not really that concerned with Bluetooth chips on a Macbook Pro one way or another. I mostly use Bluetooth with my phone to give me a hands-free phone environment in the car. I don't really use it on my notebook. I see no reason for it to not use a socket (at a cost of perhaps 20 cents over direct soldering), but then it's probably not going to be replaced or upgraded regardless. It's simply not that important in a notebook or do you listen to wireless headphones or use wireless keyboards with a notebook a lot?
I don't recall ever talking about the A10 CPU (nor has any phone based product EVER had an upgradeable CPU on ANY smart phone I know of). This thread is about the Macbook Pro. And WTF does the A10 have to do with a removable battery for god's sake? And WTF does AAA batteries have to do with smart phone batteries? It's actually EASIER to change a smart phone battery that's removable than AAA batteries as there's only ONE battery to change instead of 2-4.
I realize it might possibly be hard for someone to compare the simplicity of changing a remote control battery with a phone or notebook battery (neither takes much skill at all) because it would require a tiny bit of effort to make a mental comparison, but I try to assume most people capable of doing this on here. Perhaps I was wrong to assume that. You did have trouble with the Pop-Tart "cooking" comparison earlier, after all.
Personally, I went with a Microsoft Lumia phone (because I didn't feel like spending $700 on a smart phone when I don't live my life on social media) and it has a much higher powered battery to begin with and its easily removed/replaced in a snap case design around the core of the phone. The phone is still not very thick at all and it has a nice micro-SD card slot as well (currently filled with a 200GB SD memory card giving me more storage than any iPhone ever released at a tiny fraction of the cost). It suits my phone needs and the occasional web or news browsing with fine Bluetooth music/phone support and 720P video for movies/tv shows on flights. But a phone and a notebook are two different things. I couldn't care less about the iPhone. In fact, I think the iPhone is the reason the Mac OS and hardware updates are so pathetic compared to years past.
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Mac user since the SE/30 up to completely dismantling and rebuilding an externally destroyed rMBP from scratch with eBay parts and pretty much everything in between for the last 25 years.
I was speaking from experience with regard to failed RAM slots, I've had multiple logic board replacements due to those, but the larger factor there is the shrinking component factor. I agree with the glue thing for the most part, but my screwdriver kit can handle anything in the existing Apple product lineup. I meant "hobbyist" in the sense that you actually want to mess with this stuff whereas the vast majority of people do not have any idea how nor do they want to.My point is you seem really upset over the move away from user-futzable components when Apple's clearly always been heading in that direction and is definitely getting "there" now. You seem like you'd be happier building your own system from PC parts.
Pretty much everything you want in your computers, including sockets for Bluetooth, ram, CPU etc makes them thicker.
I'm very happy with my new MacBook it's so thin and light. Sure I can't upgrade the ram in 3 years time. But every day between now and then it will slide into my bag without me even noticing it's in there.
I didn't realise we were supposed to be brainstorming ideas to make the next MBP the thickest laptop ever.
I'd go with some big legacy ports.
I’m afraid they might. If the next 2-3 generations of iPhones lack the headphone jack, I think I might end up going with an Android phone and installing Ubuntu Touch on it. The LG V20 looks pretty good: http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2016/8/12/12450100/lg-v20-specs-quad-dac-smartphone-audio
that's pretty cool. Go LG!
dropping the headphone jack on a computer has to be the dumbest thing i've heard in a while.
Does Apple not know what a WORK STATION is?
It's one thing for a smartphone or a tablet to have USB-C as its only connector, but a personal computer really needs more than just one port. You need at least three ports: power, display & USB. And let's not forget 3.5mm.
I was trying to be funny. I personally hope the new Macbook Pro comes with a couple USBs, ethernet, and a 3.5mm jack. Everything else is not needed for my purposes (thunderbolt, mini display, SD, etc).
Mac user since the SE/30 up to completely dismantling and rebuilding an externally destroyed rMBP from scratch with eBay parts and pretty much everything in between for the last 25 years.
My point is you seem really upset over the move away from user-futzable components when Apple's clearly always been heading in that direction and is definitely getting "there" now. You seem like you'd be happier building your own system from PC parts.
I simply have a problem with Apple taking a fine design like the 2012 Mac Mini and purposely making it obtuse while simultaneously removing the quad-core and dual-drive options. If they had just upgraded the internals, a lot of us would have been satisfied and I would have already bought a new Mac Mini by now. But no, they had to make a far weaker unit that made it pointless to upgrade save the somewhat better GPU and make it harder to work on to boot. I see nothing done in the newer unit designed to make things "thinner" (as someone suggested we should apparently want for all Apple products until they're invisible or something) or better in any real way.
I do think the Mac Pro could have used a non-custom (read PCI) connector for the graphics cards so that at least could be easily replaced with a standard PC part if desired (particularly for a 2nd slot you could have a PC only gaming card or whatever). Yeah, it would make an expensive game machine, but then having to buy a second computer just for gaming isn't cheap either and you can save the desk space. Frankly, Apple could have easily used the same Mac Pro case for a consumer type "Power Mac" replacement for that matter. Just taking out the "Pro" GPU and putting a more typical consumer GPU that's good for general purpose and gaming would have lowered the entry-level price even.
The point is that Apple offers nothing but an iMac for a "desktop" machine that has a quad-core CPU and something "reasonable" even for a GPU. This must be done on purpose or they'd offer a better Mac Mini option for a headless unit. I'd readily accept a new Macbook Pro that has Thunderbolt III USB-C ports with a nice external "dock" box with a gaming level GPU inside. That would solve my Mac, desktop and mobile needs with ONE computer and I could get back some space in my den for other things (like moving my recording setup out of another room for Logic Pro and into the den).
Sure, I'd be happier in some respects building a nice mini-tower desktop, but then I'm stuck with a "Hackintosh" setup which may or may not update nicely in the future. I don't want to lose OS X (macOS) for various reasons including Unix, Logic Pro and other software I already bought and less malware. I only would even consider running Windows for gaming purposes. Frankly, despite preferring a keyboard and mouse for many types of games, I'm thinking I might just go ahead and go Playstation or something if I can't get a nice hybrid setup. There are few games I'm looking for these days, but I would like to play Dragon Age Inquisition sometime in my lifetime.
There's no ethernet on the current MBPs, why would you hope they're going to re-add it to a machine that's thicker than the port itself?
Agreed. Its pathetic that the 2012 Mac Mini is still more powerful than the 2016 model. I too would love a quad core mac mini, with space for 2 drives and ram slots for running Cubase and Logic in my studio!
Lol i just assumed it was on them. Literally havent looked at the details of Macs since 2010.
They left with the arrival of the Retina MBP in 2012. However, all you need is a Thunderbolt dongle (or a dock on your office desk) and you're fine. Most people won't.
That's another thing about Apple that drives me nuts.
They are clearly not interesting in the business/commercial setting. if they were, they'd have a Docking station.
They are so focused on Portability that they forget most people work in the same spot almost always. If they had a docking station so much of these arguments would be moot.
The conspiracy theorist in me wouldn't be surprised if Apple "vets" the attendants to make sure they are all brain-dead fans.
Maybe we could/should start a crowd fund to make that happen...
PRO should stand for professional users. "Console Class" doesn't really cut it when compared to NVIDIA's Pascal architecture. As an actual professional user I care little about battery life and thinness. I need actual processing power for the software I must use on a daily basis. If only they'd kept it 17", with a 4k oled, and put an actual GPU deserving of such a name.
I don't have a choice to go PC as all the software I need is on OSX. Nor can I go hackintosh as I couldn't explain to a client that my hacked system just don't work.
So what do I do? I've had to build a system with the bin, on a 4U rack so I can have actual peripherals.
Not cool at all. And there's very many that, like me, are chasing the software companies to go Linux or Windows.
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Spot on! Really what's the point of an iMac with laptop parts that is capable mostly for web browsing and checking emails when you have iPhones, iPads and MB's. Personally I don't browse anymore on my iMac cause I am mostly out for work and hanging out so I browse the web from my phone.
I want to be able to use my iMac for REAL PROFESSIONAL work. And with the current generation lineup that is not the case.
This is a very good analysis on the behavior of society in general and how we let ourselves be lazy and uneducated for Apple to rip us off with premium prices and the incompetent governments that want to control the masses and collect taxes especially from the poor and middle classes.
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The office I'm working in is all iMacs. It's a professional architectural practice using Archicad, Photoshop, etc.
They can do all their "professional" work on them no problems.
What professional work can't you do on a 4ghz i7 iMac?