Macbook Pro not "pro" anymore?

[john7jr]

- hard drive speeds - why is 7200rpm not standard?

Battery life. To some, that is more important. You can always upgrade like I did and get the faster one.

- why does a pro not have the fastest processor standard?

Heat. If the speed is worth it, go for it. Otherwise, most people won;t notice that much difference.

- why is the screen resolution so low?

I agree with others here, in that it seems to be a nice fit. I've seen too many Windows machines where I can't read the fonts on the screen the resolution was so tight.

- why do they make you pay extra for an adapter and a remote? For $3K for a laptop, just throw them in!

Many users don't use the remote. Or the adapters. And if you do need the adapter, which one? The DVI? The VGA? The Dual-Link DVI? Why include them all if most people won't use them, or won't use all 3 of them. You choose the one or more you want and need. No unnecessary extras wasted.

 

[pdxflint]

Honestly, what makes this MacBook Pro any less pro than the last??

<~snip~>

The biggest difference with these new machines is that its a massive cosmetic overhaul. They're not particularly faster than the last ones but they look significantly different. There's new hardware in there sure but in the grand scheme of things, the hardware performance apart from the graphics card is pretty much the same as the last one. So the screen's glossy. How does that make it less pro...

You answered your own question... it's a cosmetic overhaul. With less options or choices than before, geared to the consumer market.

I fail to understand why some of you think this laptop is less 'pro' than the last one. So some more technology has been passed down to the MacBook range. That's always been the case. The main difference here is that its happened at the same time. In the past MacBook Pros have been updated then MacBooks have been given the same updated chipset a month or so later.

So... the Macbook has been improved... but NOT the Macbook Pro?? I have to agree with you there...too. So far that's 2 reasons why all the new models are consumer focused... as there's little difference in them.

Honestly, I think the biggest thing here that's upsetting people is the fact that the MacBooks now have the same design as the MacBook Pro and people might (shock horror) think you 'only' have a MacBook when they see you sitting in Starbucks with your MacBook Pro.

Nope. I really don't give a crap what cafe lurkers think of my laptop, otherwise I'd have never survived 5 years with an old 12.1" display on a 500mhz Thinkpad (which I used to build websites and code software, BTW.) Actually, that old Thinkpad was a pro machine, because it wasn't about cosmetics, it was modular, tough, durable, had a world-class keyboard that could take a pounding, was easily user-serviced and just worked...

But... you may have a point about casual observers thinking you have a Macbook, while they'll always know my MBP is the iconic aluminum model they see on TV or in commercials. Not that I care, it just so happens to be the case. All the new Mac laptops are, indeed, Macbooks. As I asked somewhere else... would it bother you if Apple just dropped the "Pro" label from your new MBP? And why? Is that really what you want... the label "Pro?" Hell, you can put a sticker on anything, or as some politicians have been prone to repeating, "You can put lipstick on a pig, but in the end... it's still a pig."

Apple's just spent a fortune creating a whole new look. That's what you're paying for, the aesthetical quality which I don't think any other manufacturer can match. They're going to want to make a healthy profit first to recoup some of that and they also want to leave some room for improvement come the next minor update. The quality of these casings is meant to be truly fantastic, vastly superior to anything anyone else is making right now. This brings me back to my point, I think the MacBook now looks a lot better built and looks a lot more pro, which is what is truly upsetting the pro owners who always liked to show off their aluminium to lowly plastic laptop owners.

Well, you're right on Apple spending a fortune on a "new look." It reminds me of their own Vista bean-counter ad. Maybe they could have spent some of that money making the actual pro model better than it used to be.

I'll agree that the manufacturing techniques (once they actually get them ironed out... note some complaints already surfacing) result in a stronger "box" that all the innards get stuffed into. Maybe even prettier, in some eyes. And, I'll agree that the Macbook is a lot better built than before and is a vastly improved machine. The only problem is, the current "pro" model is basically the same model as the Macbook, and not an improvement (other than cosmetically, your own assertion above.) The pro model no longer has as many options as before, so it's still a downgrade, no matter how thinly you want to slice it.

I seriously doubt any real professional users of the MBP would give a darn what computers other people use, or what they look like, so if you honestly think that is what's upsetting MBP owners, it must reflect your own identity with your choice, somehow. The irony here is that most of us MBP Classic owners who don't like the new models are still seen by those who somehow place status on appearance... as being the ones with the pro machines. And what's funny, is... we don't care. We just want it to work. Hell, my nephew came to visit and when I pulled my laptop out of my backpack at home, the first words out of his mouth were, "..is that a pro?" At first I didn't even quite get what he was referring to, until I saw him staring at my MBP. I just thought of it as my laptop, which is a damn good one and it does it's job... and it has a great keyboard and a gorgeous matte screen. Too bad there are no longer any being made.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

As far as I can see, the only option that its lost over the previous model is the matte display. Instead it adds the ability to easily upgrade the hard drive, which the previous model lacked and it adds the option of SSD CTO, again which the previous model lacked. Its also slightly faster than the previous model (2.4, 2.53, 2.8 vs 2.4, 2.5, 2.6) and comes with more RAM as standard. I fail to see how you can classify it as a "downgrade". Since there's not a massive hardware increase in performance over the last pro model you somehow claim that this means its now a 'consumer' instead of a 'pro' model. That just doesn't make sense. If anything, I'd say that this model is *more* expandable than the previous one since it can now use display port screens as well (not that I'm interested in that just yet) and it has an easily accessible hard drive.

What does it take for it to be a pro machine? 4/8gb ram, bluray, 128gb ssds, 1920x1200 resolution, all standard and with a $1000 higher base line price tag?? Apple does actually want to sell its machines you know.

 

[esphil]

I think the biggest things we can draw from all of this is the lack of a higher res on the screen. And the fact you have to pay $100!!!! for a adapter that should be included!!!! It boggles my mind! Part of the reason I went refurb previous gen and not current. I use 24inch lcd at work and home with the macbook currently.

 

[pdxflint]

As far as I can see, the only option that its lost over the previous model is the matte display. Instead it adds the ability to easily upgrade the hard drive, which the previous model lacked and it adds the option of SSD CTO, again which the previous model lacked. Its also slightly faster than the previous model (2.4, 2.53, 2.8 vs 2.4, 2.5, 2.6) and comes with more RAM as standard. I fail to see how you can classify it as a "downgrade". Since there's not a massive hardware increase in performance over the last pro model you somehow claim that this means its now a 'consumer' instead of a 'pro' model. That just doesn't make sense. If anything, I'd say that this model is *more* expandable than the previous one since it can now use display port screens as well (not that I'm interested in that just yet) and it has an easily accessible hard drive.

What does it take for it to be a pro machine? 4/8gb ram, bluray, 128gb ssds, 1920x1200 resolution, all standard and with a $1000 higher base line price tag?? Apple does actually want to sell its machines you know.

Okay, I'll try to tell you what it means to me. Taking away choices of configuration... is a downgrade. So, the first thing you said (about the matte screen option) would do that for me. On the other technical improvements, yes.. they're the minimum I would have expected. That all could have been done, including the "carved-from-a-block-of-aluminum" shell... without the cheapening of the keyboard and the eyesore glassy screen. Let's just say for argument's sake, I learn to live with a funky, black plastic chicklet Macbook keyboard..., now I have to learn to live with another consumer feature - shiny. Which I don't want. Where's the choice? How can you call it "pro" when there's no choice of configuration? Some of you (many of you) just say, "tough bullcrap." I think that's a very hostile attitude, and reminds me of the old PC fanboys always having to slam Mac users. What's the point in that? So, what I'm saying is Apple made some improvements, but then they offset them for certain customers by removing a critical option that was important to them. Maybe not to you. But to them. It's not all specifications, in the professional world it's also a great deal about ergonomics and comfort when working with a tool many hours a day. Now that's being ignored. It's definitely the iPodization of the Macbooks (while the MBP is basically discontinued by being replaced with an improved MB.)

To me, any machine can be a "pro" machine, as long as it works as a tool you can depend on to earn a living. The rest is just a damn label. My sense is that Apple's now just using the label to sell to the consumer market. I don't care for many of the "cosmetic" changes because they lessen the usability of the machine for me. Thus, less "pro." Has nothing to do with specs or labels. If I won't use it, it's not a professional tool for me. Lots of screwdrivers/wrenches out there, but only one Snap-On brand. More expensive, and often copied with lesser tools that can do the job, but as a former pro mechanic I found that the design of the pro tools were just better because they benefited from feedback from professional users, were more natural in the hand, were better at their job and were durable as hell, with a lifetime guarantee backed by regular visits from the distributor. They cost more, but you knew they were worth it. They were an investment in a working career. They were tools where the manufacturer knew who the customers were, and didn't try to market them to consumers who would prefer some cheaper imitiation to get the job done around the house. Pro tools designed and marketed to a professional market. The only Mac in that category now is the Mac Pro tower.

Don't be offended if I don't think your purchase isn't really the new, improved "pro" model. Why should your feelings be hurt? It's not like I said your girlfriend was unattractive, or anything? Right? I hope I'm not seeing a pattern here... <Okay.. sorry, that was just a joke... trying to lighten things up..>

If you like it, that should be all that matters to you.

I...don't like it.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

What does it take for it to be a pro machine? 4/8gb ram, bluray, 128gb ssds, 1920x1200 resolution, all standard and with a $1000 higher base line price tag?? Apple does actually want to sell its machines you know.

No, but the machine they are selling us today is not worth the price they are asking for. At the price they are asking for Professional level specifications should be a minimum.

how many people upgrade to 4GB of ram (albiet aftermarket) within DAYS of getting the machine? How many people long for the offerings of other manufactures, such as higher reso displays, on Apples line up? Apple has to stop touting its machines and mantra as a graphics powerhouse if they keep selling less than top end machines. Its fine that I can connect a wicked large 26 or whatever inch display to my machine and edit hi-def reso content in premiere or final cut pro. But without a BR disk drive, i'll have to pimp it out using quicktime. Woohoo.

This is the result of newbie consumers purchasing the Macbook Pro and not using it for its pro features, so Apple feels like its ok to charge a Pro price for people who think more = better and command a premium for individuals who actually want to use their machine in a professional manner. I applaud Apple's highly paid economics geeks for figuring that one out, and realize they have to make a profit, but this is a diagonal line straight back to zero for the professional market. Whats next? Apples 201x "Macbook Pro" will have a USB 3.0 port. Thats it. Nothing else. Oh, and magsafe.

Whatever. Their desktop machines are top rate in my opinion. My Penryn Macbook Pro does its job well. But in 2008, this consumer level machine that they put out this time around is relatively inexcusable. Ladies and Gentlemen, the new, the consumer friendly, the Macbook Pro.

 

[vkt]

No, but the machine they are selling us today is not worth the price they are asking for. At the price they are asking for Professional level specifications should be a minimum.

how many people upgrade to 4GB of ram (albiet aftermarket) within DAYS of getting the machine? How many people long for the offerings of other manufactures, such as higher reso displays, on Apples line up? Apple has to stop touting its machines and mantra as a graphics powerhouse if they keep selling less than top end machines. Its fine that I can connect a wicked large 26 or whatever inch display to my machine and edit hi-def reso content in premiere or final cut pro. But without a BR disk drive, i'll have to pimp it out using quicktime. Woohoo.

This is the result of newbie consumers purchasing the Macbook Pro and not using it for its pro features, so Apple feels like its ok to charge a Pro price for people who think more = better and command a premium for individuals who actually want to use their machine in a professional manner. I applaud Apple's highly paid economics geeks for figuring that one out, and realize they have to make a profit, but this is a diagonal line straight back to zero for the professional market. Whats next? Apples 201x "Macbook Pro" will have a USB 3.0 port. Thats it. Nothing else. Oh, and magsafe.

Whatever. Their desktop machines are top rate in my opinion. My Penryn Macbook Pro does its job well. But in 2008, this consumer level machine that they put out this time around is relatively inexcusable. Ladies and Gentlemen, the new, the consumer friendly, the Macbook Pro.

Yeah. The only part you forgot to mention is that this "consumer friendly" macbook pro is a hell of a lot faster in every way than your Penryn...that seems more "pro" to me.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

Yeah. The only part you forgot to mention is that this "consumer friendly" macbook pro is a hell of a lot faster in every way than your Penryn...that seems more "pro" to me.

Never said it was. Its a quick little machine, but still seems like a downgrade.

I need to stay out of these forums while the "Macbook pro shipping time?" and "How do I turn on my new Macbook Pro" threads calm down. Its starting to get the best of us

Peace ya'll. Hopefully Apple will listen to us/you. Meanwhile, I think Adobe is making some headway on PS CS5 for vista.

 

[vkt]

Never said it was. Its a quick little machine, but still seems like a downgrade.

I need to stay out of these forums while the "Macbook pro shipping time?" and "How do I turn on my new Macbook Pro" threads calm down. Its starting to get the best of us

Peace ya'll. Hopefully Apple will listen to us/you. Meanwhile, I think Adobe is making some headway on PS CS5 for vista.

How is it a downgrade if there is NOTHING missing except an outdated firewire 400 slot? Everything else is faster, better and more beautiful...I'm not understanding your logic.

 

[pdxflint]

Yeah. The only part you forgot to mention is that this "consumer friendly" macbook pro is a hell of a lot faster in every way than your Penryn...that seems more "pro" to me.

There's a lot more to "pro" than speed. But I guess if you don't realize that you're exactly the type of customer Apple is looking for to replace their former professional customers. Just like the camera makers are selling cameras all about mega-maximum-pixel count. It makes the consumers think they're better, and they'll pay more. It's all marketing. "Pro! Now for the consumer." Maybe we'll get a Pro iPod next. Bet it would be a big seller with the shiny, glossy crowd.

 

[pdxflint]

Everything else is faster, better and more beautiful...I'm not understanding your logic.

It's a matter of opinion. One man's junk, another man's treasure. Enjoy your beautiful laptop, and quit feeling like you have to justify it to everyone else.

 

[Eddyisgreat]

There's a lot more to "pro" than speed. But I guess if you don't realize that you're exactly the type of customer Apple is looking for to replace their former professional customers. Just like the camera makers are selling cameras all about mega-maximum-pixel count. It makes the consumers think they're better, and they'll pay more. It's all marketing. "Pro! Now for the consumer." Maybe we'll get a Pro iPod next. Bet it would be a big seller with the shiny, glossy crowd.

Sorry I just have to take a quick break from my macrumors hiatus to agree with you

 

[vkt]

There's a lot more to "pro" than speed. But I guess if you don't realize that you're exactly the type of customer Apple is looking for to replace their former professional customers. Just like the camera makers are selling cameras all about mega-maximum-pixel count. It makes the consumers think they're better, and they'll pay more. It's all marketing. "Pro! Now for the consumer." Maybe we'll get a Pro iPod next. Bet it would be a big seller with the shiny, glossy crowd.

Actually, I am a professional graphic designer. I have the "old" style MacBook Pro and the new one appears to have everything this one does PLUS it's faster. You still haven't answered the question. How is it a downgrade? Is your ego hurt because it doesn't look any cooler than the "consumer targeted" macbook? Because other than that Apple axed NOTHING from the older MBPs other than a de-saturated matte screen (which real print professionals should NOT be working off anyway) and an outdated FW400 slot.

/thread

 

[mckyvlle]

Apple has blurred the lines between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro too much. Many of us wanted to see the MacBook grow up and gain a metal body, and it did! This is great for all the MacBook fans out there. With such great improvements to the consumer model, most people expect Apple to push the Pro even further. But Apple did the opposite and styled/engineered the new Pros similarly to the consumer MacBook and iMac. The major differentiators between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro are gone. It is not to say the MacBook is too good; but rather where is the 'Wow!' factor of the new MacBook Pro that makes it the be-all end-all über-notebook.

Do looks matter? When using the notebook, probably not; when used to judge a device based on appearance, definitely. When you have two distinct product lines that look similar to each other, people will think that there are in the same line. Like car manufacturers, if they have a budget line and a premium line, they do not style these two lines to look alike. Just like Honda won't (and probably would never) style the Civic and the Accord similarly.

In fact, calling it as MacBook Pro practically makes it sound like the Pro model is just a trim level on the MacBook.

 

[vkt]

Apple has blurred the lines between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro too much. Many of us wanted to see the MacBook grow up and gain a metal body, and it did! This is great for all the MacBook fans out there. With such great improvements to the consumer model, most people expect Apple to push the Pro even further. But Apple did the opposite and styled/engineered the new Pros similarly to the consumer MacBook and iMac. The major differentiators between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro are gone. It is not to say the MacBook is too good; but rather where is the 'Wow!' factor of the new MacBook Pro that makes it the be-all end-all über-notebook.

Do looks matter? When using the notebook, probably not; when used to judge a device based on appearance, definitely. When you have two distinct product lines that look similar to each other, people will think that there are in the same line. Like car manufacturers, if they have a budget line and a premium line, they do not style these two lines to look alike. Just like Honda won't (and probably would never) style the Civic and the Accord similarly.

In fact, calling it as MacBook Pro practically makes it sound like the Pro model is just a trim level on the MacBook.

Ok, but you didn't give ONE reason why the new MBP is not suitable for professional use. You are basically wanting everything other than the MBP to be semi-ghetto so you can feel better about having the best? THink about it from Apple's perspective. There's a HUGE market of non-professional consumers who want the NICEST laptop possible from a company that has proven time and time again to to produce amazing products. As Apple enthusiasts you should all be stoked that Apple is making EVERYTHING pro style.

It's really that simple. Every product is now "pro-grade". There's been no nerfing of the stuff that was pro, in fact it's BETTER. People are just upset because the rest of the product line is now more pro? That's absurd.

 

[Chaos123x]

FireWire = Pro

 

[pdxflint]

Actually, I am a professional graphic designer. I have the "old" style MacBook Pro and the new one appears to have everything this one does PLUS it's faster. You still haven't answered the question. How is it a downgrade? Is your ego hurt because it doesn't look any cooler than the "consumer targeted" macbook? Because other than that Apple axed NOTHING from the older MBPs other than a de-saturated matte screen (which real print professionals should NOT be working off anyway) and an outdated FW400 slot.

Wrong. You forgot the decent keyboard and DVI port.

Actually, I did answer the question in post #30. And, contrary to my feelings being hurt... BTW, I already do think my MBP looks better than the new ones when open- by a long shot, so sorry... no ego issues here. However, I don't even care one way or the other what the consumer world considers "cooler." So, I'm happy for you that you get your bling when you trade up. I still use both of my firewire port(s) and don't have to slow down my FW800 data transfer speeds just because I'm using a FW400 peripheral daisy chained on the bus, like the new model has to do. I prefer the matte screen... so shoot me! I hate cheap chicklet keyboards... so shoot me! I'm so glad it's your job to determine for another professional what they do and don't need, or should be working with. Sorry pal, but your "I got mine, so 'eff you' argument doesn't cut it. It's all irrelevant anyway, because I couldn't care less whether I was or wasn't a professional working with my computer. I simply can't stand the glossy/shiny screen and cheap keyboard. Why is that so hard for you to accept? If you like it, then please... enjoy it. And be a nice fellow...don't crap on my head because I don't like what you like. It isn't going to make it any more attractive just because you want me to like it. Get over it.

Now...as posted earlier... just so you know I did answer the question about why I consider the new MBP to be downgraded... feel free to read what I said.

Okay, I'll try to tell you what it means to me. Taking away choices of configuration... is a downgrade. So, the first thing you said (about the matte screen option) would do that for me.... <~snip...~> (see post 30, if you really want the rest...)

Hope that settles whether I answered the question. This is getting boring trying to reason with people who actually don't bother to read another person's viewpoint before dismissing it outright.

FireWire = Pro

Yeah... that too. If we are to notice a trend in Apple products, even the ones labeled pro, there is a de-emphasis on formerly professional features, and a reduction of choices. Let's all make them match cosmetically - that's got to be the most important feature... right? At least the consumer market, which Apple has been extremely successful in winning over like it. I'm glad Apple has found out how to make money in the mainstream, but their former 'niche' as the machines for publications, graphic arts, photography and other creative fields is slowly giving way to the consumer reality. You'd think with all their successes they could manage to appeal to both segments of the market. Just my opinion, but I'm sticking with it.

 

[vkt]

Wrong. You forgot the decent keyboard and DVI port.

Actually, I did answer the question in post #30. And, contrary to my feelings being hurt... BTW, I already do think my MBP looks better than the new ones when open- by a long shot, so sorry... no ego issues here. However, I don't even care one way or the other what the consumer world considers "cooler." So, I'm happy for you that you get your bling when you trade up. I still use both of my firewire port(s) and don't have to slow down my FW800 data transfer speeds just because I'm using a FW400 peripheral daisy chained on the bus, like the new model has to do. I prefer the matte screen... so shoot me! I hate cheap chicklet keyboards... so shoot me! I'm so glad it's your job to determine for another professional what they do and don't need, or should be working with. Sorry pal, but your "I got mine, so 'eff you' argument doesn't cut it. It's all irrelevant anyway, because I couldn't care less whether I was or wasn't a professional working with my computer. I simply can't stand the glossy/shiny screen and cheap keyboard. Why is that so hard for you to accept? If you like it, then please... enjoy it. And be a nice fellow...don't crap on my head because I don't like what you like. It isn't going to make it any more attractive just because you want me to like it. Get over it.

Now...as posted earlier... just so you know I did answer the question about why I consider the new MBP to be downgraded... feel free to read what I said.



Hope that settles whether I answered the question. This is getting boring trying to reason with people who actually don't bother to read another person's viewpoint before dismissing it outright.



Yeah... that too. If we are to notice a trend in Apple products, even the ones labeled pro, there is a de-emphasis on formerly professional features, and a reduction of choices. Let's all make them match cosmetically - that's got to be the most important feature... right? At least the consumer market, which Apple has been extremely successful in winning over like it. I'm glad Apple has found out how to make money in the mainstream, but their former 'niche' as the machines for publications, graphic arts, photography and other creative fields is slowly giving way to the consumer reality. You'd think with all their successes they could manage to appeal to both segments of the market. Just my opinion, but I'm sticking with it.

Fair enough. I just didn't see any valid reasons why the general consensus was that the newer MBP is any less "pro". In short, your reasons are:

• no DVI (this I can understand because I myself stated pros should be using an external, calibrated monitor.)
• chiclet keyboard (I don't think this has anything to do with a pro standard machine and it is personal preference)
• lack of matte screen option (again professionals should be using a proper monitor if colors are an issue ie. print)
• no firewire 400 (it's an older, inferior interface those tend to get phased out overtime, again I don't think this is anywhere near a deal breaker)

So the DVI is gone and that is a valid point. The rest is trivial or personal preference. All of the fuss just didn't justify Deal Breaker status in my eyes. My personal opinion, of course.

Also - I do NOT have a new MBP. I work on the old 2.33 C2D. I'm not defend anything I own, so don't take it personally. I was genuinely interested in getting an honest and well thought out perspective of another person and you provided that, so thanks

 

[pdxflint]

Fair enough. I just didn't see any valid reasons why the general consensus was that the newer MBP is any less "pro". In short, your reasons are:

• no DVI (this I can understand because I myself stated pros should be using an external, calibrated monitor.)
• chiclet keyboard (I don't think this has anything to do with a pro standard machine and it is personal preference)
• lack of matte screen option (again professionals should be using a proper monitor if colors are an issue ie. print)
• no firewire 400 (it's an older, inferior interface those tend to get phased out overtime, again I don't think this is anywhere near a deal breaker)

So the DVI is gone and that is a valid point. The rest is trivial or personal preference. All of the fuss just didn't justify Deal Breaker status in my eyes. My personal opinion, of course.

Also - I do NOT have a new MBP. I work on the old 2.33 C2D. I'm not defend anything I own, so don't take it personally. I was genuinely interested in getting an honest and well thought out perspective of another person and you provided that, so thanks

Alright... you're welcome. And.. for what it's worth, I completely see all of your points. No, the FW400 isn't a deal breaker, but I like having at least two FW ports so I can maintain the FW800 speeds without dropping everything on the buss to FW400 speeds when a FW 400 device is connected. And, yes... the DVI is kind of a given for me. I want it because of my cinema displays that work with it. I guess I could just 'upgrade' to the new, glossy ones, but I really don't want to have to do that. It's just a choice. That's all. I don't like having my hand forced by Apple, if I had my druthers...

And I think the whole "pro" thing is completely blown out of proportion anyway. I've mentioned that I have used an old Thinkpad until early this year as a professional tool. It wasn't fast (500mhz,) and didn't have a lot of memory, and it ran... win2k. But, I developed java applications, designed databases and interactive websites using it. It only had a 800x600 display, yet I managed to get by because it was reliable, tough, modular (quick change HD, ultrabay 2000 which allowed hot-swappable components like optical drives, Hard drives, batteries, etc.) all of which made it an IT department's dream. Not good for game playing, or serious video production, or even video playback... but it was a professional tool which gave years of service. Many consumer machines could outrun it in the years after I bought it, but I still could do much of what I needed to professionally with it for a long time. And it was tough as nails. (It's now in my personal museum along with my Mac Plus, Mac SE30, Powercomputing 630, Mac G3 B/W tower and my still functioning Mac Mini, all of which saw some level of professional service in their lifetimes... )

So what's my point...? Only that any laptop can be a professional tool, if you're comfortable using it, and it will do the job for you. We all have our own criteria for what makes something "professional-worthy" and no one else really can determine that for each of us. I need durability, dependability, ergonomics, especially keyboard, and to avoid things that bug me - which is my objection to glossy. It's a personal thing. Of course it is. What may not work for me may work just perfectly for you. I understand that as well as anyone. The entry-level Macbook can certainly be professional laptop. And I'm sure lots of loaded MBPs are perfectly good toys and consumer laptops. It's all in how one uses it, and what one really needs to get the job done... happily. For me, more configuration options is a big plus. Apple is going the other way. It's just an observation that I'm afraid will lead to more disappointment (for me) in their newer products down the line. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to see.

 

[vkt]

Alright... you're welcome. And.. for what it's worth, I completely see all of your points. No, the FW400 isn't a deal breaker, but I like having at least two FW ports so I can maintain the FW800 speeds without dropping everything on the buss to FW400 speeds when a FW 400 device is connected. And, yes... the DVI is kind of a given for me. I want it because of my cinema displays that work with it. I guess I could just 'upgrade' to the new, glossy ones, but I really don't want to have to do that. It's just a choice. That's all. I don't like having my hand forced by Apple, if I had my druthers...

And I think the whole "pro" thing is completely blown out of proportion anyway. I've mentioned that I have used an old Thinkpad until early this year as a professional tool. It wasn't fast (500mhz,) and didn't have a lot of memory, and it ran... win2k. But, I developed java applications, designed databases and interactive websites using it. It only had a 800x600 display, yet I managed to get by because it was reliable, tough, modular (quick change HD, ultrabay 2000 which allowed hot-swappable components like optical drives, Hard drives, batteries, etc.) all of which made it an IT department's dream. Not good for game playing, or serious video production, or even video playback... but it was a professional tool which gave years of service. Many consumer machines could outrun it in the years after I bought it, but I still could do much of what I needed to professionally with it for a long time. And it was tough as nails. (It's now in my personal museum along with my Mac Plus, Mac SE30, Powercomputing 630, Mac G3 B/W tower and my still functioning Mac Mini, all of which saw some level of professional service in their lifetimes... )

So what's my point...? Only that any laptop can be a professional tool, if you're comfortable using it, and it will do the job for you. We all have our own criteria for what makes something "professional-worthy" and no one else really can determine that for each of us. I need durability, dependability, ergonomics, especially keyboard, and to avoid things that bug me - which is my objection to glossy. It's a personal thing. Of course it is. What may not work for me may work just perfectly for you. I understand that as well as anyone. The entry-level Macbook can certainly be professional laptop. And I'm sure lots of loaded MBPs are perfectly good toys and consumer laptops. It's all in how one uses it, and what one really needs to get the job done... happily. For me, more configuration options is a big plus. Apple is going the other way. It's just an observation that I'm afraid will lead to more disappointment (for me) in their newer products down the line. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll have to see.

This is exactly what I was looking for. You clearly say it in your last paragraph. Everyone has their own, personal definition of what a professional laptop is. You must define what you consider to be a professional laptop before making concrete statements like "The new MacBook Pro is not professional anymore." That has no backing...see what I was getting at?

I believe that the issue with this subjective thinking is that a person fails to see that what is professional to one man may be useless to another. So rather than everyone up in arms and making definitive statements like "The new MBP is ****, Apple sucks.". I think it would be better to look at the situation objectively. "Well, Apple provided me with the style of laptop that I personally enjoyed for many years and now they seem to be moving in a different direction. I dislike them because I think a professional laptop should have ______" Then at that point the gripe about the new product does not make you appear to be making thin statements based on emotion or insecurity, rather it gives other people on the forum a full understanding of your displeasure for the computer and at the same time teaches us a bit about you so we can better interpret your post and what you as a person really meant when you typed it.

In the end, everyone who complains about the new design comes off as a total whiner to the people who DON'T see the situation the way you do. So unless you "define your variables" like pdxflint then please stop with the negativity and subjective thinking. It muddies up the communication between members on the forum and makes the boards an overwhelmingly negative place to hang out - which is a shame cause Apple rocks and you all seem like really cool people.

Onward Ho.

 

[pdxflint]

Onward Ho.

Agreed. Apple is still definitely a rockin' company. Ain't it funny how we feel hurt the most by the ones we love?

Peace, Brother!

 

[Batt]

Onward Ho.

Am not.

 

[pdxflint]

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