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I'm curious what'd you get for that price?

Alienware 17
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-17/pd.aspx

i7-4900, 32GB RAM, 4GB 780M, 2x256GB SSD (RAID0), 750GB WD Black HDD, Blu-ray, 17" 120Hz 3D screen.

It's huge. Not nearly as elegant as my MacBook Pros. But it is really, really fast.

4 RAM slots, 1 mSATA, 3x SSD/HD bays, the video card is a MXM, so it's easily upgradable. And nothing inside is glued to anything else. :D

I also have Mountain Lion running on it. Great HowTo at tonymacx86.
 
Alienware 17
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-17/pd.aspx

i7-4900, 32GB RAM, 4GB 780M, 2x256GB SSD (RAID0), 750GB WD Black HDD, Blu-ray, 17" 120Hz 3D screen.

It's huge. Not nearly as elegant as my MacBook Pros. But it is really, really fast.

4 RAM slots, 1 mSATA, 3x SSD/HD bays, the video card is a MXM, so it's easily upgradable. And nothing inside is glued to anything else. :D

I also have Mountain Lion running on it. Great HowTo at tonymacx86.

Well...if it is that huge and heavy....it is not portable anymore and thus defeating its purpose.

Get a Desktop instead!
 
Ironically, as a college student myself, I DO care if my laptop is able to boot up under 5 nano seconds. Sucks when u wake up early morning trying to finish up that assignment on ur laptop only to find it being stuck on the boot up screen for hours on end - due to system updates or whatsoever. I use an external 7.2k rpm hdd for my entertainment nonsense.

Really? Hours? C'mon man. :)
 
Contrary to popular belief on this forum, there are plenty of people who value storage space over speed.

Both actually - storage has moved off the main platform. There's networked NAS, USB3, TB2, etc for larger storage.

Get all that junk off your main drive. The world has changed, stop living back in 2003.
 
Every time I see a thread like this I have to chuckle. Shows how stupid some people really are or how little they've actually shopped the market. Maybe they just think Apple should give this stuff away...

Anyway, if you look at a comparable product, such as the Toshiba Kira, which Toshiba advertises as their high-end laptop with premium components the Macbook Pro is really quite reasonably priced.

Kira - ( note that this is NOT a Haswell processor) http://www.toshiba.com/us/computers/laptops/kira/kirabook13/KIRAbook13-i7-touch

rMBP 13" with comparable (albeit better) specs -
http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/macbook-pro?product=ME865LL/A&step=config

When you compare PC's with similar specs, you'll find that Apple's prices are very competitive.

Now someone please tell me again how Apple is greedy?
 
Every time I see a thread like this I have to chuckle. Shows how stupid some people really are or how little they've actually shopped the market. Maybe they just think Apple should give this stuff away...

Now someone please tell me again how Apple is greedy?

I'm not going to call them greedy. I'm going to call them profit-maximizing—which is what pretty much every successful company on the face of the planet is, too.

That said, the 13" is an OK deal I suppose, but the 15" certainly has a giant premium attached. Compare it to the Dell XPS15, which appears to me to be a very capable machine with equal or superior specs. If a person is OS-agnostic, I can't imagine why they wouldn't buy the Dell.

I personally have plenty of cash, and no desire to switch operating systems, so I'll stick with my Apple laptops. But I think the criticisms raised in this thread are valid, and I think it's unfair (and immature) of you to call the people raising them "stupid."
 
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, you can definitely find better specs for a lower price, but there are going to be drawbacks -- weight, heat, noise, build quality, warranty, after-purchase service, etc.

For example, some people consider that aforementioned Alienware 17 to be portable; I consider it a Desktop Replacement-class machine, best suited to sit on the desk and rarely travel. It's thick, heavy, and has a huge power brick -- at least, I'd not want to lug it around on a daily commute.

That's the drawback there, and the drawback with many machines of that particular class. If that's fine with you, then it's not an unreasonable deal.
 
Both actually - storage has moved off the main platform. There's networked NAS, USB3, TB2, etc for larger storage.

Get all that junk off your main drive. The world has changed, stop living back in 2003.

That doesn't work too well for photography-- RAW files take up a lot of room.

It doesn't sound like a great idea to cart around an external device just to access my Lightroom data.

I don't need the whole collection on the laptop at once but doing so would be difficult with the metadata/tags/etc. There's still a lot of work to do with applications to get to that point.

I also use virtual machines. Those don't run too well from a NAS. :)

Eventually SSDs will get to the point where I can afford a new Macbook Pro with 1TB storage but that's a few years away. I don't really want to spend more than $2000 for a laptop.
 
That doesn't work too well for photography-- RAW files take up a lot of room.

If you're using it for serious work, having an SSD will save you so much time instead of waiting on slow HDDs. Penny wise, pound foolish. The wasted productivity by you not having a large enough SSD for your work and relying on a much slower HDD is a productivity killer.

So I think you're being a bit foolish by not paying the extra here - if this is your bread and butter.
 
Apple does not compete well with cheap laptops that's for sure. But its laptops are very competitively priced with other expensive laptops. For example, I do not think you can get a retina quality display 13 inch display, 128SSD, and 4 GB ram for under $1299 from other manufacturers.

I haven't done a direct comparison, but I don't think they're even in the same league pricing wise. They do have some unique features, like the Retina display, but even given that, I think they've priced themselves out of the market. They are creeping up in price while the rest of the industry bottomed out. I'm glad I have my early 2011 MBP with it's upgradable storage, but I don't know what I'll get next time around. $3k for a laptop with that limited storage is a really, really hard sell.

They may price out a few people, but the higher margin on each product makes up for the discrepancy in terms of the bottom line. Basically, Apple could care less if you can't afford their product, because their are plenty of people that can, and the higher price those people pay more than makes up for the lack of your business.

I'm just thinking they are going to drive their volume way down. The key issue I see is lack of hard drives to offer a decent amount of storage space. Most of these machines are going to be highly dependent on external hard drives. Some of them come with as little as 128GB of space. Seriously? I think my iTunes library alone is bigger than that. And I definitely have more pictures than 128GB.

It's not hard at all to test your hypothesis. Simply look at current/upcoming sales data and revenue numbers along with market share percentage to see if Apple has indeed priced themselves out of the game. I have a hunch your findings may in fact surprise you.

I think they've priced themselves right out of the market, especially at a time when fewer and fewer users are really using desktop/laptop machines for a lot.

Users can't put their own SSD in, they need to buy Apple's, but you're probably used to that as a Mac owner anyway. Can't buy my displayport to HDMI cable in the store, I need to buy it from Apple.

The external adapters are all on Monoprice for like $12. But for the SSDs, they should be using the industry standard 2.5" and 5.25" drive bays. The Early 2011 MBP has them, I have a 500GB SSD and a 640GB hard drive (eventually will be upgraded to 1.5TB). You can't do that on the new ones.

Only an insane person buys a laptop with a hard drive these days!

Only an insane person would boot off a hard drive. My laptop has one of each, so that I get the best of both worlds.

Ah....no.

Contrary to popular belief on this forum, there are plenty of people who value storage space over speed.

Yup. I think the solution for now is to have two drives in there. I wish laptop manufacturers would actually embrace that. There is no need to store RAW files and MP4 files on an SSD that's capable of some absurdly high amount of IOPS. The dual drive concept seems foreign on laptops, even though it's common on desktops. Even a 2.5" HDD bay with an eSATA or PCI-E SSD would be a decent combo.

Both actually - storage has moved off the main platform. There's networked NAS, USB3, TB2, etc for larger storage.

Get all that junk off your main drive. The world has changed, stop living back in 2003.

What if I want everything with me when I travel? Charging devices already creates enough of a pile of spaghetti next to my machine, I don't need more crap and then worry about how the external drives are handled as I'm cramming and slamming my backpack onto some crummy Delta jet that has about 1/4 the carry on capacity it should.

That doesn't work too well for photography-- RAW files take up a lot of room.

It doesn't sound like a great idea to cart around an external device just to access my Lightroom data.

I don't need the whole collection on the laptop at once but doing so would be difficult with the metadata/tags/etc. There's still a lot of work to do with applications to get to that point.

I also use virtual machines. Those don't run too well from a NAS. :)

Eventually SSDs will get to the point where I can afford a new Macbook Pro with 1TB storage but that's a few years away. I don't really want to spend more than $2000 for a laptop.

Yup, exactly. I'm actually shocked that we haven't seen more capacity development on the laptop side, but rather laptops that seem to hold less, just as people's collections of data are growing at an ever increasing rate.

If you're using it for serious work, having an SSD will save you so much time instead of waiting on slow HDDs. Penny wise, pound foolish. The wasted productivity by you not having a large enough SSD for your work and relying on a much slower HDD is a productivity killer.

So I think you're being a bit foolish by not paying the extra here - if this is your bread and butter.

You need space to store stuff too. Which is why I advocate the dual drive model.

----------

Sorry I couldn't respond to every post, worked a 14 hour day.
 
I'm wondering if Apple has priced themselves clear out of the laptop market. I remember a time about 5 years ago when Apples and PCs weren't that far off for the equivalent hardware (although PCs still had a much lower starting price with stripped down hardware). Now, as PCs have become dirt cheap, Apple gets more and more expensive. There's definitely a price premium they can demand, but they seem to have gone off the deep end.

With all flash storage, in order to get a 1TB drive, the base price on a MBP is now $2300 or $2800, depending on size. There is the one 13" MBP left with a hard drive, but it looks like they are killing them off. This just seems insane. Thoughts?

I've come from a long, long line of PC computers including many desktops (most of which I have built) and many, many laptops from many vendors. I moved to Apple about 3 years ago and even though I still use Windows for my office needs and for video editing at home, I am a dedicated Apple convert.

It is extremely doubtful that I will ever buy another PC laptop. Dollar for dollar, Apple simply builds the best machine. Yes, they are more expensive but as always, you get what you pay for. There have to be many others who think like I do - willing to pay extra for quality. I'm not rich but when I buy something, I tend to do a lot of research and part with that extra dollar just so I can have what I believe to be the best. I am 100% of the opinion that the extra money that Apple charges for its products is worth it. Apparently so do millions of other folks.

If you cannot buy into this reality, then luckily for you there are many, many choices in the PC laptop field. Buy what you can afford, buy what you need but grousing about how much Apple charges seems counter-productive.
 
I haven't done a direct comparison, but I don't think they're even in the same league pricing wise. They do have some unique features, like the Retina display, but even given that, I think they've priced themselves out of the market. They are creeping up in price while the rest of the industry bottomed out. I'm glad I have my early 2011 MBP with it's upgradable storage, but I don't know what I'll get next time around. $3k for a laptop with that limited storage is a really, really hard sell.

I have searched around and the 13inch Macbook Air at 1299 is the cheapest 13inch 128SDD laptop with a Retina display that I found. Apple is now a luxury / status symbol brand. I think this strategy makes sense because the margins are a lot higher than when selling cheap products - there's only so much profit you can make selling a $300 laptop or a $150 tablet.

Apple is about being able to show off that you have a $2500 laptop or a $500 tablet when you are sipping your $5 coffee and eating your $5 cookie at Starbucks. That's the kind of products Apple builds best and they do a great job making off of them.
 
Alienware 17
http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-17/pd.aspx

i7-4900, 32GB RAM, 4GB 780M, 2x256GB SSD (RAID0), 750GB WD Black HDD, Blu-ray, 17" 120Hz 3D screen.

It's huge. Not nearly as elegant as my MacBook Pros. But it is really, really fast.

4 RAM slots, 1 mSATA, 3x SSD/HD bays, the video card is a MXM, so it's easily upgradable. And nothing inside is glued to anything else. :D

I also have Mountain Lion running on it. Great HowTo at tonymacx86.

Ahh yeah thanks for the info, I actually used to have a big lugger XPS Gen 2 many years ago and can't do that sizing. The main problem is my work computer is company supplied and when I fly, etc I carry around my personal laptop with me to and the weight really adds up. But glad your situation works for you the machine is packing! :)
 
Apple is about being able to show off that you have a $2500 laptop or a $500 tablet when you are sipping your $5 coffee and eating your $5 cookie at Starbucks.
And what's wrong with that?
One wise man once told me: "You shall not fear big expenses! You shall fear small income!"
 
And what's wrong with that?
One wise man once told me: "You shall not fear big expenses! You shall fear small income!"

Absolutely nothing. I was just illustrating my point. I was actually in Starbucks the other day doing some work on my Mac haha.
 
If you're using it for serious work, having an SSD will save you so much time instead of waiting on slow HDDs. Penny wise, pound foolish. The wasted productivity by you not having a large enough SSD for your work and relying on a much slower HDD is a productivity killer.

So I think you're being a bit foolish by not paying the extra here - if this is your bread and butter.

Photography is a hobby for me, not my profession (which is software development). I would probably have a Mac Pro if post processing for photography were my livelihood. :)

The cost of SSD is still high, but is dropping quickly. The ideal situation for now is to have both a hard drive (a hybrid SSD/hard drive in my case) and an SSD for the OS and applications. I haven't done this yet but think it might be worth taking out the optical drive from my 2010 MBP and putting in a 256 gig SSD to play that role.

It's too bad the current MBP doesn't have the room to do that... it would have been nice. I'm sure that SSD's will continue to drop in price and that I'll upgrade to a new MBP in a year or two or three.
 
The college student with 300GB iPhoto library, 100GB iTunes library, and 100GB Steam Game Library could care less if his/her machine boots up in 5 nanoseconds.

It's unfortunate Apple doesn't understand their client base as well as you do.

Please let me know when you start your competitive company as I'd like to invest in it. :rolleyes:
 
Both actually - storage has moved off the main platform. There's networked NAS, USB3, TB2, etc for larger storage.

Get all that junk off your main drive. The world has changed, stop living back in 2003.

Um, sorry to break it to you, but that defeats the purpose of the SSD. What you describe is basically a hybrid drive or fusion drive. One of the main points that was described in-favor of having a full SSD is having the speed when accessing random files. If I'm just go to use my current SSD to hold the OS and apps, wouldn't I be better off with a hybrid drive? Wouldn't do the same thing with me NOT having to carry around an external?

Ironically, as a college student myself, I DO care if my laptop is able to boot up under 5 nano seconds. Sucks when u wake up early morning trying to finish up that assignment on ur laptop only to find it being stuck on the boot up screen for hours on end - due to system updates or whatsoever. I use an external 7.2k rpm hdd for my entertainment nonsense. #

It's unfortunate Apple doesn't understand their client base as well as you do.

Please let me know when you start your competitive company as I'd like to invest in it. :rolleyes:

Some of the responses to my post have been down right laughable. Hours to boot up? Really? Hyperbole to do a crappy job of trying to prove your point?

When I said "contrary to popular belief on this forum" I obviously wasn't expecting to have unanimous agreement nor understanding on this forum.

However, I will bite and say that I'm college engineering student who knows plenty of fellow students with macs. What I say doesn't come out of thin air out of my head. The most complaint especially from Macbook Air owners the lackluster amount of space. Some even have to carry bulk externals which defeats the purpose of having a macbook air in the first place.

While people(especially other students) are impressed by speed of the SSD in my cMBP, they are immediately put off by price and the lackluster amount of storage. If it wasn't for the fact that I have an iMac at home, I would have put back in my 1TB Hybrid drive.

I'm sorry, the people in the mystical land of Macrumorsia, but unless you have hundreds to spend storage the SSD switch is a little premature. Media files and files in-general getting much larger, but with the switch to SSDs storage space is going backwards.

Of course you guys will try to come back and (once again) try to prove that SSDs are so wonderful and perfect. I don't disagree that having an SSD is nice(My cMBP is quieter, and I don't have to worry about a platter cracking, not mention the incredible speed) I'm just making a point that in the price and storage space department, SSDs have a quite a ways to go. Saying something as silly as "you're insane if by a laptop with an HDD" is just plain wrong.
 
I went for the i7/16GB/512GB 13" as my roadie, picked up a slim little 1TB USB3 eternal for longer multi-day jobs that I will need to backup. In hindsight, I do wish I would have upped it to a 1TB because $500 is nothing when you bill out nice figures per year in photography.

SSD's run cool and can be super small as externals, I am hoping companies were waiting for TB2 to come out with them. I bet a 1TB SSD roadie would be awesome for stills and vids...

That doesn't work too well for photography-- RAW files take up a lot of room.

It doesn't sound like a great idea to cart around an external device just to access my Lightroom data.

I don't need the whole collection on the laptop at once but doing so would be difficult with the metadata/tags/etc. There's still a lot of work to do with applications to get to that point.

Eventually SSDs will get to the point where I can afford a new Macbook Pro with 1TB storage but that's a few years away. I don't really want to spend more than $2000 for a laptop.
 
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It's unfortunate Apple doesn't understand their client base as well as you do.

Please let me know when you start your competitive company as I'd like to invest in it. :rolleyes:

Lol, you actually went with the "start your own computer company" meme. That's soooo "cute".

The simple fact is that when Apple had two distinct MBPs for sale, one fit a certain group perfectly and the other fit a DIFFERENT group of people and the rest just went with the flow.

Now here is the kicker, see if you can follow this...

When you remove one of the types of MBP, the group that fit it perfectly are NOT going to to be happy - GASP!!! I know.

For people looking for larger storage, for people looking to upgrade later, for people looking for dGPU for under $2.7K, etc... This move is horrible. So given that, you think that some small amount of belly aching is intolerable?

Luckily I am not in the market. My 2012 cMBP has 16 gigs of RAM(originally 4), and will soon get a 256Gig SSD boot drive with 1TB in the optical bay. I expect this baby to last a LONG time. If I were in the market for a New one now, I'd be PO'd with this travesty of a MBP lineup. I'd have to go refurb to get a MBP that meet my seemingly simple demands(user upgradable, 15", dGPU).
 
Buy what you can afford, buy what you need but grousing about how much Apple charges seems counter-productive.

I can aford basically whatever I want. The issue is if I am willing to spend that much. Luckily, my Early 2011 MBP, after a new logic board (that fiasco is another story) has good enough hardware to be relatively current for several more years. I am willing to pay the Apple price premium. However, the premium seems to have gone way up with this latest generation of machines moves to proprietary SSDs with no way to use HDD storage.

If I'm just go to use my current SSD to hold the OS and apps, wouldn't I be better off with a hybrid drive? Wouldn't do the same thing with me NOT having to carry around an external?

Of course you guys will try to come back and (once again) try to prove that SSDs are so wonderful and perfect. I don't disagree that having an SSD is nice(My cMBP is quieter, and I don't have to worry about a platter cracking, not mention the incredible speed) I'm just making a point that in the price and storage space department, SSDs have a quite a ways to go. Saying something as silly as "you're insane if by a laptop with an HDD" is just plain wrong.

Hybrid drives are sort of VooDoo magic, and don't work as well as real SSDs. I can't go back to using an HDD for booting. WAY too slow. But I also need an HDD for storage, at least until multi-TB SSDs are cheap. Having two drives works well, as the stuff I store on my HDD has no need for the speed of an SSD.

These days, you are insane to buy a laptop without an SSD if you're spending more than maybe $500. I wish more manufacturers would embrace the dual-drive model, with an external optical drive. It just makes a lot more sense.
 
Hybrid drives are sort of VooDoo magic, and don't work as well as real SSDs. I can't go back to using an HDD for booting. WAY too slow. But I also need an HDD for storage, at least until multi-TB SSDs are cheap. Having two drives works well, as the stuff I store on my HDD has no need for the speed of an SSD.

These days, you are insane to buy a laptop without an SSD if you're spending more than maybe $500. I wish more manufacturers would embrace the dual-drive model, with an external optical drive. It just makes a lot more sense.

Have you ever used a Hybrid drive? By your post I HIGHLY doubt it. I've used all three-HDD, SSHD, and now a full SSD.

You boot files and frequently used files/apps go to the SSD portion. That is the whole point - You won't booting from HDD by having a hybrid drive. Obviously have a full SSD would ideal.

Also, you'rE are again, wrong with your insane comment. sub $1000 laptops almost always do not come standard with SSDs. $800 is the minimum I've seen. $1100-$1200+ models come with SSDs, and they are very small bootable SSDs(like 16-32gb) which is what hybrid drives do anyway. $500 is a gross over exaggeration. Please say to the face of the average buyer of a $700 laptop tell them to their face that they are insane for not having an SSD. Give me a break. I'm done with thread. I really need to get off this forum.
 
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