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MacBook Pro Retina AR Coating Problems

L

Laura-1

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 5, 2014
19
4
I have been looking for a laptop for university and have decided on the MacBook Pro 13 Retina, but a friend has told me about a problem with the AR coating coming off the 13 and 15 inch models, after several months use?

IMG_0530.JPG


https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6068947?start=15&tstart=0

This has put me off purchasing the laptop, which is really disappointing as I like it and the only alternative I can find is the Lenovo T440s or HP Pavilion 15-p100na Laptop, neither of which fill me with excitement.

I was hoping someone on here could help me out and create a survey/poll so I could see how many people with 6month old+ MBPR have been affected by this issue? thanks :)
 
Archer1440 said:
That looks more like a few months of cleaning with a Brillo pad...
Click to expand...

I know :eek: but what has got me really concerned about buying the laptop is the amount of threads I have just found about this issue.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1680085/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1761032/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1624907/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1744071/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1794687/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1470375/

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1772389/

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5855837?start=15&tstart=0

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6068947

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blueroom said:
I have a 2013 rMBP and it's screen is fine. The only device I had that the AR coating came off of were any of my Sony cameras.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's good to know, I wonder if this is a 2014 thing. I'll check those threads again.



.
 
Unfortunately it looks like this issue is spread across 2013 to 2014, but it doesn't seem to be in the mainstream press, so I'm hoping it's just a small number of defective units.

I read somewhere it has something to do with the way the screen is coated, like the iMac?

"We also figured out how to reduce reflection off the front of the glass without compromising colour quality. Instead of applying an antireflective coating to the glass in a conventional way, we adapted a process used on smaller surfaces like camera lenses and fighter pilots’ helmets. It’s called plasma deposition, and it involves coating the glass with layers of silicon dioxide and niobium pentoxide so precise and so thin they’re measured in atoms."

https://ssl.apple.com/sg/imac/design/
 
Laura-1 said:
I have been looking for a laptop for university and have decided on the MacBook Pro 13 Retina, but a friend has told me about a problem with the AR coating coming off the 13 and 15 inch models, after several months use?

Image

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6068947?start=15&tstart=0

This has put me off purchasing the laptop, which is really disappointing as I like it and the only alternative I can find is the Lenovo T440s or HP Pavilion 15-p100na Laptop, neither of which fill me with excitement.

I was hoping someone on here could help me out and create a survey/poll so I could see how many people with 6month old+ MBPR have been affected by this issue? thanks :)
Click to expand...

This happened on my late 2012 13 inch macbook pro retina. The trackpad and the space bar of the keyboard scratched the coating off. I went to the apple store and thry replaced the screen for free even though my warranty expired over 12 months ago. Now i bought one of those soft things to put between the keyboard and the screen for when the lid is closed. Kinda annoying to do so on such a expensive machine but i sure as hell dont want it to happen again. It was so distracting especially on white pages and while scrolling pages
 
I've seen similar coatings come off $3000 Leica lenses when abused. Nearly all modern optics are coated with plasma deposition. You just need to be reasonable when cleaning.
 
From what I'm aware of, Plasma Deposition is not used on iPhones and iPads, which makes sense, since PD is such a fragile technology.

So, if an iPhone (which is used outdoors in sunlight far more than a MacBook) does not require a Plasma Deposition Anti Relective coating, then why does a MacBook?

It can't be to do with surface area because a glass reflective surface is a glass reflective surface no matter the size, or to put it another way, a mirror is a mirror no matter the size.

With regards to treating AR coatings with care, many of the users in the threads above have followed Apple's cleaning instructions to the letter and still experienced the issue.

What would be great to know is how many rMBP owners are NOT affected by this issue. To get an idea of the statistics.
 
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Laura-1 said:
What would be great to know is how many rMBP owners are NOT affected by this issue. To get an idea of the statistics.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and your picture in the OP, is shocking. I'm sorry to see your laptop looking that way.

My 2012 rMBP so far has no issues with the coating.
 
I'm glad your MacBook Pro Retina is okay, after looking at the various other manufacturers today and being very uninspired, I decided to contact Apple and asked if I could speak to someone about the Plasma Deposition AR coating. The guy I spoke to seemed to be very knowledgeable. I did not expect the specialist to acknowledge any issue at all so I was very surprised to hear him say this is affecting less than 1 percent. I didn't think they were allowed to talk about stuff like that? Maybe he meant general returns of the MacBook Pro with Retina are less than 1 percent? So all I need to do now is find out roughly how many MacBook Pro's with Retina are being sold. If it's 2 million, then that's 20,000 faulty MacBooks! wow! I think I'll wait for more people to respond to this thread and work out a ratio of risk :)
 
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Laura-1 said:
I'm glad your MacBook Pro Retina is okay, after looking at the various other manufacturers today and being very uninspired, I decided to contact Apple and asked if I could speak to someone about the Plasma Deposition AR coating. The guy I spoke to seemed to be very knowledgeable. I did not expect the specialist to acknowledge any issue at all so I was very surprised to hear him say this is affecting less than 1 percent. I didn't think they were allowed to talk about stuff like that? Maybe he meant general returns of the MacBook Pro with Retina are less than 1 percent? So all I need to do now is find out roughly how many MacBook Pro's with Retina are being sold. If it's 2 million, then that's 20,000 faulty MacBooks! wow! I think I'll wait for more people to respond to this thread and work out a ratio of risk :)
Click to expand...

It seems to me that you started out with one statement about your intent for this thread and are turning it into something else.

Based on your own post you have a 99% chance of no problem if you get a Retina machine. Reasonable people would be satisfied with those odds, especially with AppleCare which you would be foolish to overlook buying on a machine at these price points.

Based on your posts on this and your other thread, I think you're not going to be happy with anything you buy and will turn out to be a very difficult customer for whatever vendor you go with.
 
Archer1440 said:
It seems to me that you started out with one statement about your intent for this thread and are turning it into something else.
Click to expand...

Which is...?

Archer1440 said:
Based on your own post you have a 99% chance of no problem if you get a Retina machine. Reasonable people would be satisfied with those odds, especially with AppleCare which you would be foolish to overlook buying on a machine at these price points.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting I'm unreasonable to expect that something I spend my hard earned money on should not have a major fault? "The odds"?! I'm not going to the horses! I'm buying a premium laptop! there are no odds. It's not a lottery! QC "at this price point" should be far better than what I can see in the above links. I actually have a life to live, a masters to study, and work to do. I don't have time to pamper to a delicate screen or return a faulty machine.

My gran has a refrigerator that has been going for nearly 30 years. That refrigerator has been on this planet longer than me! (by 4 years). My boyfriend has a Sony Walkman that should be in a museum. This is how things used to be made. If you go on talking about acceptable risk and "odds" then it's no wonder QC goes out the window. Why bother making something to a high standard when people are happy to return things all the time.

Archer1440 said:
Based on your posts on this and your other thread, I think you're not going to be happy with anything you buy and will turn out to be a very difficult customer for whatever vendor you go with.
Click to expand...

Which other thread..? the one about which laptop to buy? are you saying that anyone who has concerns about spending their money on a substandard product is going to be a "difficult customer"?

Actually (and quite predictably) you are wrong. I am very happy with my iPhone 4s, which has performed incredibly well over the last 3 years, and my Dell quad core workstation, which has been flawless running Windows 7 Pro since 2006 ! I'm happy with my Panasonic HDTV which has the most amazing color and viewing angles I have ever seen, and I'm happy with my new Jimmy Choo Delta Suede Lattice Knee High Boots ! What I'm not happy with is people who assume they know everything about someone they have never met.

FYI, if you actually read my original post you would see that I was advised by a friend of this problem. I was actually quite happy to buy the rMBP, it's other people who are advising me not to.

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dyt1983 said:
Just curious, do you know that this process described for the iMac 5K is the same as used for the MacBook? Because I'm looking at my 2013 Macbook Pro and I'm curious if it is coated with the same stuff. Because it doesn't look like it. ;-) So the Macbook may not even have PVD coating (and generally CVD is more fragile).

Regardless, PVD coating (of which plasma sputter is a form) is commonly used on lots of stuff: eyeglasses, camera lenses, watches and so on. The process isn't necessarily fragile. What can be fragile is the combination of deposited material and its substrate. For instance, AR coatings on watches are often on sapphire. While it isn't terribly fragile, being on a very scratch resistant surface and often exposed to abuse gives it a reputation. On the other side, some people wear watches with plain glass crystals and never scratch them. So it's a matter of lifestyle.

Same with the MacBook. Some people will have some sort of combination of factors that come together to cause the coating to be damaged. Some are working in a dusty environment, or having some sort of grit on the hands from a job, pastime, or location. Then storing the computer in a manner where it is compressed, like in a backpack or other back. And then others will never have the problem.

Anecdote:

I used to wear a watch touted as "scratchproof". And I worked in a modern office with a glass desk. After a few months my watch was completely scratched on the ceramic clasp with lots of fine scratches... it looked like a stainless steel pot had been cleaned with a steel pad. It was caused by my wrist wresting on the edge of the glass while typing. Many people believe when something is a certain hardness, only something harder can scratch or cut it, but this is obviously false.

P.S. the Macbook Pro is delivered with tissue between the keyboard and screen. This isn't uncommon, I know firsthand HP and Sony have also done that.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, very helpful. Just been reading up on PVD and CVD here and also the Apple Patent
 
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Laura-1 said:
Actually (and quite predictably) you are wrong. I am very happy with my iPhone 4s, which has performed incredibly well over the last 3 years, and my Dell quad core workstation, which has been flawless running Windows 7 Pro since 2006 !
Click to expand...

I'd love to know how it's been running Windows 7 since 2006...

The current release in '06 was XP. Vista was released in '07 and '7 in '09.
 
Laura-1 said:
Unfortunately it looks like this issue is spread across 2013 to 2014, but it doesn't seem to be in the mainstream press, so I'm hoping it's just a small number of defective units.

<snip>

What would be great to know is how many rMBP owners are NOT affected by this issue. To get an idea of the statistics.

<snip>

Are you suggesting I'm unreasonable to expect that something I spend my hard earned money on should not have a major fault? "The odds"?! I'm not going to the horses! I'm buying a premium laptop! there are no odds. It's not a lottery!
Click to expand...

Make up your mind.
 
And when you decide to finally purchase your Retina Macbook Pro...thereʻs always the wonderful world of:

1) yellowish tint on screens
2) uneven color reproduction
2) creaking/squeaking cases
3) case manufacturing defects
4) screen manufacturer lottery
5) ssd manufacturer lottery
6) backlight problems
7) Yosemite issues (wifi, continuity, handoff, instant hotspot)
8) squeaky sounding keys, chipped individual keys
9) off center improperly attached screens
10) battery issues
11) ...and on...and on...

Iʻd say take your chances if you think youʻll enjoy the platform. The AR coating will not be the only issue you hopefully never have to deal with.The majority of Mac users are happy with their computers, the minority turn to forums to vent and search out answers to issues theyʻre having.

For me, there isnʻt a viable alternative, so I guess Iʻll keep cleaning my rMBP screen with a microfiber cloth and water. So far so good...

Best of luck with your decision! :)
 
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