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For anyone upset on the decision to remove s-video out and the modem: yes you will find people who still need dial-up and yes you will find people who don't have a new tv with dvi/hdmi, but that is why apple has external modem and video out adapters. Those technologies are going away and apple at some point has to remove them. Don't forget that apple removed the floppy drive from all their computers way before the pc world, but it was something that all computer companies ended up doing. Personally I'm happy that apple isn't afraid to be the first to go onto new and better technologies, that is why so many people love the company, and removing dated technology is unfortunately inevitable.
 
People who say the MBP has terrible battery life because Apple's site doesn't list the life are using bad logic. That would hardly be an effective cover-up: people KNOW the info's not there. Apple hasn't "gotten away with" anything.

The ACTUAL battery life is what is relevant--and apparently it's in the same league as the much-slower machine it replaces, AND it's not nearly 2 inches thick like competing options are.

More tests will be needed to reach a real consensus.

But there's no way to say yet WHY the specs aren't on Apple's site. The most obvious reason: their tests weren't done yet because the power-management software wasn't final yet. Or because some physical component wasn't finalized yet. Battery life results may soon appear on Apple.com.

Yes, an evil (but stupid) cover-up is possible--but it's irrational to ASSUME one.

Facts first, then judge. That's my suggestion.
 
The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool. Certainly not in others (although I must make a point here about the sheer cretinism of security rules in many places, THIS is the real problem, that nobody does anything to object to these rules.)

On the other hand, this is only the first model. The camera could be made optional in the future.
 
DTphonehome said:
My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

Is the battery the same size as the original one that came with your Powerbook? Otherwise you are profiting from the advances in battery technology that Apple has choosen not to use for longer autonomy but higher performance, brighter screens etc. .
 
ppnkg said:
The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool.

I do want to point out something that those who don't have a machine with iSight built in (it may be just the MBP but I assume the iMacs w/ iSight do it to).

When you first set up OSX, it will take your picture and use that as your logon avatar. Nice touch.
 
Darn that Battery!

I was so ready to upgrade my 1.67PPC PB to a MBP! The performance and other add ons are great. However, I think I'm going to wait a little longer before I dump $2500.00 on a new note book:rolleyes:
 
i just had a thought:

one of the coolest looking things they show off at nearly every macworld or WWDC has been the isight/ichat with multiple users. it seems like they put a lot of time and money into it and yet relatively few people have bought an isight camera. i think their goal is to get an isight into _every_ mac like they got ichat into every mac, so that we all look so cool video conferencing and our windows friends get jealous.
 
chaos86 said:
i think their goal is to get an isight into _every_ mac like they got ichat into every mac, so that we all look so cool video conferencing and our windows friends get jealous.

I think that's exactly what they're up to.

Now if only they'd lower the price of the regular iSight so the rest of us can get them too. $189 Cdn for a webcam is waaaay too much.
 
So, i will have enough money in hand--and credit--to buy a macbook pro in a month. i was sad about no FW800...then i was alright because expresscard/34 seemed a fine answer. now firewire 800 expresscards are coming, but only in 54...daggumit.

if there are no 34 modules available when i buy, i may have to wait. and this is not a moot point since i will also buy a Fireface 800 with the computer and i don't want my interface and my hard disk on the same bus.
 
I haven't done an in depth analysis, and I'm not a Mac "Know It All".

I did, however, play with a 2Ghz MBP with 1Gb of RAM at the Albany Apple Store today, and it was fast. Faster than any Mac I've played with. I was able to compare it head-to-head with one of the new Core Duo Mac Mini's (1.66Ghz + 512Mb RAM, I believe), and the Macbook Pro felt twice as fast.

Like I said, these aren't technical specs and I'm far from a benchmark expert, but perception is what really matters, right? My perception was that this laptop was very fast.
 
I think I already mentioned this ad-hoc benchmark, but in another thread; so it bears repeating here.

One of many tasks I have been using my Mini for is ripping DVDs for use on my iPod. When I got my MBP, I wanted to see how it would fare against the Mini.

The test: Ripping DVDs (Drawn Together Season 1) to iPod Video using Handbrake (which now has a universal binary). 2 pass encoding down to 320x240.

The machines:
(1) Mac Mini G4 1.42 GHz, 1GB RAM
(2) MacBook Pro Intel Duo 2.0 GHz, 1GB RAM

The results:

The Mini averaged between 10-15 frames per second during encoding.
The MacBook Pro averaged between 60-75 frames per second during encoding.

It wasn't even close. Hopefully this is a harbinger of what lies ahead.
 
janstett said:
The machines:
(1) Mac Mini G4 1.42 GHz, 1GB RAM
(2) MacBook Pro Intel Duo 2.0 GHz, 1GB RAM

The results:

The Mini averaged between 10-15 frames per second during encoding.
The MacBook Pro averaged between 60-75 frames per second during encoding.

It wasn't even close. Hopefully this is a harbinger of what lies ahead.

Were you encoding regular MPEG4, or H264?
 
nagromme said:
The fact is, IBM doesn't want to BE in the personal computer processor market. It's more trouble than it's worth to them. They'd rather make gaming chips (consoles are EXPECTED to sell at a loss, remember) and server chips.

Intel, on the other hand, actually WANTS to make personal computer processors. And wants to work with Apple too.

I think the reality is both companies just want to make money..
 
motulist said:
I'm not saying the Macbook Pro is bad, if anyone wants to buy one for me I'd gladly accept it. ;) What I'm trying to do here is add a voice of reason. Given the forum we're in it's very easy for people to accept a biased version of reality. Here's reality as I see it. The Macbook Pro is a great machine with lots and lots of potential. At the moment though, it is clearly a first gen machine that needs some kinks worked out.

I agree 100% with this.

I also believe Apple is moving in the right direction with the switch to Intel. Perhaps AMD could have done it, perhaps not. We'll never know. However, we DO know that Apple is far better poised to bring the goods than they ever were with the G4.

Hell, that's how I felt with the 1.67GHz 17" Powerbook (happily will take one if someone would buy me one, which they did :D) Anybody who's real with themselves will know that the "bump" from 1.5GHz (and it's really stretching it to call it that) was pretty sad. It was not hard at all for me to sit on my wallet. But I know that there is no question that my next laptop purchase will be a MacBook Pro, and the only reasons I didn't go with a Rev A is due to the universal binary issues (I run a lot of digital audio workstation apps - whose vendors are (typically) slow in getting out updates) and the fact that it was Rev A (though, if you think about it, now that MBPs are in general circulation, the only really big problems so far have been the buzzing issues that some people have come across - which to me signifies one of the better Rev A rollouts of an Apple product.)

Apple played it smart by not getting all crazy about the battery life...how could it possibly know without any real-world test results outside its own labs? If Apple had said "4 hours!" and the MBP only ran 3:30, then every hater in the universe would be calling for a whaaaaambulance to carry The Steve's severed head to the landfill. The truth was, it was never going to be this spectacular number. The notebooks that are getting 6, 7 and 8 hours of battery life are a lot lighter, a lot less equipped and run at a lot lower speed than the MBP. Additionally, they're either running Windows or an OS that isn't OSX, which doesn't have to determine at program launch whether an app has been compiled for one processor architecture or another, and based on that determination, doesn't have to spawn a separate process which does nothing but translate code.

I'm surprised at both the performance and battery life results. It only means they can get better. As more UBs are compiled, there's less of a reliance on Rosetta, which means a smaller memory footprint, which means less disk paging which eventually means better battery life. Additionally, once Rosetta is out of the equation, the performance numbers should start going through the roof. You see that already...look at Doom3. You needed a freakin G5 to run that program before. Now it cooks on the Intel.

Those of you who are moaning about a first-gen product need to relax and get your priorities straight. Not to sound like a fanboy ('cuz I'm not - I gave Apple much heat on the "nudge" they called an upgrade on the Powerbook) but this really is a good move on Apple's part. And the MBP is a big home run in my eyes...it could have been a LOT worse, and I know you know what I mean. Hell, there are programs that aren't even supposed to run under Rosetta that indeed are! (Cubase SX, for one) That's amazing. And the thing is, it's only going to get better as time goes on.

Just my nickel.
 
pgre said:
I think the reality is both companies just want to make money..

And thusly, each know what side their bread is buttered on, then, don't they?

Nothing wrong with that. More money means more Apple customers win.
 
lvnmacs said:
I was so ready to upgrade my 1.67PPC PB to a MBP! The performance and other add ons are great. However, I think I'm going to wait a little longer before I dump $2500.00 on a new note book:rolleyes:

Dude, you should totally wait. You have the top of the line PPC notebook! :D $2500 is going to be a bit of a waste, that's another reason why I'm going Rev B.
 
ppnkg said:
The mbp built-in camera puzzled me too.

I think it has to do with apple's market research, for some reason they concluded that the camera would not be a problem for most of the people who would buy the mbp. I can imagine that some professional environments that camera could be a very handy tool. Certainly not in others (although I must make a point here about the sheer cretinism of security rules in many places, THIS is the real problem, that nobody does anything to object to these rules.)

On the other hand, this is only the first model. The camera could be made optional in the future.

I suspect that's what will happen. Apple would be crazy to lose the government and high-security sector to PCs just because of a stupid camera. I suspect that the Rev Bs will offer this as a CTO.
 
DTphonehome said:
My 5.6 lb, 1" thin TiBook 667MHz gets 4.5+ hours on a fresh battery. So I think most of the complaints compare the MBP to the PB, not Dell or Alienware.

Of course, it only runs anywhere from .3 to .4x as fast as a MBP.
 
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