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How fast can you move an entire factory though? Certainly not fast enough to help the supply shortages anytime soon, right?
 
Fair play but I think mine and your definitions of “general document management” are probably poles apart.
Maybe, but even if close all other apps and only have 200 or so tabs open, 16 GB struggles. It's easy for the average person to get to a few hundred tabs with general browsing project management. I have multiple folders with 50 to 100 bookmarks. My desktop PC currently has over 1000 tabs open right now. Each is separated into different windows so I can quickly jump between projects.

Or what if you are trying to reconcile a few dozen emails among what's an average inbox size, 100,000 messages?

I am just saying that 16 GB is no longer a lot of ram for the average user.
 
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Off topic...but a 16GB MBP is "grossly under spec'd for general document management"? In what world?
I was wondering the same. I'm wondering if OP went with the base 8/14 core M1P and that's being more problematic. I'm on the base 16" and I can compose music using several memory-intensive plugins and libraries without the fans turning on.
 
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Nobody's labor is as cheap as it used to be. McDonalds pays people $21/hour where I'm at. Chinese labor is still way cheaper than American labor.

I think his point is that there's a whole lot of variables beyond just labor costs that dictate why American companies continue to manufacture in China. I can tell you firsthand from relatives who are higher level executives at some of these companies, the average person on the street over here has no idea how good the whole supply chain is in China. Nothing we do here can compete at the same scale unfortunately. And it's not a 1-2 or even 4-5 year process if we wanted to shift things back. Then there's the question of whether we would want to shift things back considering the environmental and quality of life impact of having factories in your backyard.
 
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I am just saying that 16 GB is no longer a lot of ram for the average user.
While I get your point, and recognize that the M1 machines can get into pretty serious trouble when memory gets low, I do think your workflow is far from "average".

Doing a quick search on the memory efficiency of browsers it looks like Edge is significantly better than the competition, using as little as half of the memory of Chrome, for example. So that would partly explain the performance difference on your windows machine. Too bad a more memory efficient browser doesn't exist for macOS.
 
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While I get your point, and recognize that the M1 machines can get into pretty serious trouble when memory gets low, I do think your workflow is far from "average".

Doing a quick search on the memory efficiency of browsers it looks like Edge is significantly better than the competition, using as little as half of the memory of Chrome, for example. So that would partly explain the performance difference on your windows machine. Too bad a more memory efficient browser doesn't exist for macOS.
He didn't mention how much RAM his desktop PC has. I am guessing it has to be 32GB or more otherwise. Trying to replicate the same workflow smoothness on a Mac should require the same amount of RAM, regardless what the Unified Memory praises we may have heard.

And yes the "document management" workflow he described is apparently far from average.

But to stay on topic; returning policies especially on actual hardware issues are indeed pushed way back, just check the Mac Studio forum.
 
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While I get your point, and recognize that the M1 machines can get into pretty serious trouble when memory gets low, I do think your workflow is far from "average".

Doing a quick search on the memory efficiency of browsers it looks like Edge is significantly better than the competition, using as little as half of the memory of Chrome, for example. So that would partly explain the performance difference on your windows machine. Too bad a more memory efficient browser doesn't exist for macOS.
Microsoft Edge for macOS exists. Crazy, I know.
 
Microsoft Edge for macOS exists. Crazy, I know.
Oh! Hahahaha... okay, apologies. I should actually check it out. During my PhD I developed such an aversion to Word that I just flat out rejected the idea of ever touching MS software again. Maybe a tad hasty... :)

EDIT: Actually, I attempted one conference paper with Word, then switched to LaTeX and never touched Word again. It's hot garbage.
 
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While I get your point, and recognize that the M1 machines can get into pretty serious trouble when memory gets low, I do think your workflow is far from "average".

Doing a quick search on the memory efficiency of browsers it looks like Edge is significantly better than the competition, using as little as half of the memory of Chrome, for example. So that would partly explain the performance difference on your windows machine. Too bad a more memory efficient browser doesn't exist for macOS.
Windows was easy to solve. It cost $400 to upgrade my PC to 128 GB of RAM. Getting that much RAM on a Mac comes with a $2400 price tag, at POS. If Apple really does see efficacy benefits with SOC it isn't translating to real-world use.
 
He didn't mention how much RAM his desktop PC has. I am guessing it has to be 32GB or more otherwise. Trying to replicate the same workflow smoothness on a Mac should require the same amount of RAM, regardless what the Unified Memory praises we may have heard.
128 GB. And I can confirm the statement about Unified Memory.
And yes the "document management" workflow he described is apparently far from average.
I disagree. I see many people from professionals to students with similar loads. It's 2022, and the "close some programs/tabs" should be dated advice.
But to stay on topic; returning policies especially on actual hardware issues are indeed pushed way back, just check the Mac Studio forum.
When I speak to Apple about delays they say "demand for custom builds is much higher than we expected." That tell me many, if not most people don't see value in the base models.
 
I think his point is that there's a whole lot of variables beyond just labor costs that dictate why American companies continue to manufacture in China. I can tell you firsthand from relatives who are higher level executives at some of these companies, the average person on the street over here has no idea how good the whole supply chain is in China. Nothing we do here can compete at the same scale unfortunately. And it's not a 1-2 or even 4-5 year process if we wanted to shift things back. Then there's the question of whether we would want to shift things back considering the environmental and quality of life impact of having factories in your backyard.
That gives us in the Western world a lot to think about.
Is our technology so important that we can just be OK with Third World countries dealing with all
The environmental toxins and child labor?
 
It is time to say goodbye to China. When will these companies realize this? What’s it going to take?
Say goodbye to China and go where? Mexico? USA? You think the MacBook Pro is expensive now? Try making this product in any other country amd see what kind of labour and supply chain issues you will have. Jumping out of the frying pan, into the fire will be the result. We are talking about the biggest and most successful company in the history of our planet, Apple knows exactly what they are doing, and why they are in China. Don't be so naive.
 
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I think his point is that there's a whole lot of variables beyond just labor costs that dictate why American companies continue to manufacture in China. I can tell you firsthand from relatives who are higher level executives at some of these companies, the average person on the street over here has no idea how good the whole supply chain is in China. Nothing we do here can compete at the same scale unfortunately. And it's not a 1-2 or even 4-5 year process if we wanted to shift things back. Then there's the question of whether we would want to shift things back considering the environmental and quality of life impact of having factories in your backyard.
You don't need to present a hypothetical argument on behalf of someone else. If you want to argue this point, then own it :)
 
Just the logistics of such a move are kinda mind-blowing, when you think of how many parts there are in a MacBook Pro (or really any device really!) 🤯
 
Blind thinking by Quanta because if they want to increase production they need to build a new plant outside of China.
 
Even if relocation happens, delivery will still be delayed at least for the immediate few weeks/months. Will take some time to get the production line up and running.
 
'Only' and '200 tabs open' don't fit in the same sentence.

I'm going to try to break it to you gently, but you are not the average user.
Given web browsers also act as office suites, PDF readers, email clients, web apps (todo apps, calendars, etc.), audio players, video chat (Zoom, Teams, etc.), news, shopping centers, chat services (messenger, discord, etc.), storage (cloud, onedrive, etc.), social media (twitter, facebook, etc.), sports, research, and general inquiries - the average person likely starts their day with 50+ tabs.

By the end of the day, they are going to have a lot of tabs open.
 
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