MacBook Pro (very unhappy with Apple)

[Plutonius]

I found out the other day that my 2010 MacBook Pro has had a graphic chip flaw that Apple has known about and documented. Since I put OS X 10.9 on it, I have been getting constant GPU panics / restarts. Apple had a silent program for three years to replace the MacBook Pro logic board if people complained about GPU panics but unfortunately, most people didn't discover the problem till they installed OS X 10.9 (when the replacement program was ended). I realize that it's a four year old computer but

- Apple knew about and documented the design flaw.
- I had Applecare on the MacBook Pro and Apple should have fixed it then.
- I had no issues at all with OS X 10.8 and would not have upgraded to OS X 10.9 if Apple had warned me about OS X 10.9 on a 2010 MacBook Pro. I would downgrade the operating system but, once the GPU panics begin, the only way to fix the problem is a replacement logic board.

 

[TechZeke]

Apple seems to have a very poor track record with these dGPUs. No wonder Apple is trying to get rid of them from the 15" rMBPs as fast as possible.

 

[johnnylarue]

Quick question: have you tried making an appointment at a Genius Bar to see if they might fix this issue for you?

Apple are known to go outside the bounds of their stated policies every now and again to keep customers happy. You certainly have a legitimate case...

 

[orestes1984]

Yes, just like the known fault with 2011 MacBook Pros with the SATA chipset they say is a "feature" when it doesn't recognise certain solid state drives.

 

[taelan28]

Its 4 years old. Let it go.

 

[2984839]

Its 4 years old. Let it go.

4 years is not that old IMO. It's perfectly reasonable to expect it to work today and not everyone can afford a new computer. And frankly, the OP shouldn't have to let it go considering it was fatally flawed from the moment it left the production floor.

 

[orestes1984]

Its 4 years old. Let it go.

They are still selling machines that are 4 years old through the Apple Store in terms of current computers it's not that old at all Apple has a habit of hiding Easter eggs like this that you only find when you want to upgrade something else.

Like hard drives which are too fast for the SATA bus to handle, even though it should

 

[c1phr]

- I had no issues at all with OS X 10.8 and would not have upgraded to OS X 10.9 if Apple had warned me about OS X 10.9 on a 2010 MacBook Pro. I would downgrade the operating system but, once the GPU panics begin, the only way to fix the problem is a replacement logic board.

When I had this machine, I ran into this problem, too. Though, mine happened when I upgraded from Snow Leopard to Lion. Installing gfxCardStatus seemed to fix the problem for me, not that it made any sense as to why.

Ultimately though, Apple can't realistically maintain repair programs for a long period of time. They just can't keep old logic boards around for replacement in 4 year old machines. Also, they couldn't have warned you about 10.9 causing problems because 10.9 didn't directly cause the problem. I know it would seem like that, but it has to have been 10.9 in combination with other software that you have installed. It might be worth trying a clean install.

 

[pragmatous]

They're really not getting rid of dGPU's. They would alienate the majority of it's user base to buy another product. Just because you believe you don't need a dGPU that doesn't mean the majority of people do.

Every single laptop in the entire world that uses dGPU's can suffer hardware failures/flaws.

To OP:
Maybe you should call Apple and see what they can do for you?

If you say they knew about the flaw well clearly you have proof and you should file a lawsuit with all the evidence that you clearly have. Keeping that information to yourself is immoral to the greater cause.

Apple seems to have a very poor track record with these dGPUs. No wonder Apple is trying to get rid of them from the 15" rMBPs as fast as possible.

 

[TechZeke]

They're really not getting rid of dGPU's. They would alienate the majority of it's user base to buy another product. Just because you believe you don't need a dGPU that doesn't mean the majority of people do.

Every single laptop in the entire world that uses dGPU's can suffer hardware failures/flaws.

What? Where did I say dGPUs were not needed at all? I was meerly making an oberservation. Someone is but-hurt about dGPUs much?

 

[mmomega]

I would give Apple a call or go by a store if they are local.

I bought my nephew a new MBP in June 2010 when he started college. I added the 2 yr AppleCare on top of it.

He never had to use the AppleCare but this year he had 2-3 problems with the laptop. He scheduled an appointment at the closest AppleStore, walked in and they fixed every issue he had... out of warranty.

He called me asking what to do so I pointed him to the phone number. He asked what to tell them and I said, exactly what you told me. The worst they can say is No we won't fix it and then you will know for sure. It won't hurt to ask.

 

[simonsi]

most people didn't discover the problem till they installed OS X 10.9 (when the replacement program was ended).

I don't follow the logic, if most people didn't suffer the issue until 10.9 came out then how were even Apple to know that 10.9 would cause such an issue? If they did, it would have been far easier for them to code round it.

The most common failure in laptops is the HDD - does that make all manufacturers culpable because they fit HDDs?? Should all manufacturers have a pre-emptive HDD replacement program as they are known to fail??

I think in all likelihood the initial failure rate was at a low level, handled by a suitable replace-on-failure approach appropriate to the Applecare period. Perhaps then a combination of factors causes an issue with 10.9 but I find it hard to believe that once panics occur with 10.9 they continue even if you downgrade the OS - either something isn't being changed back in the downgrade or the cause is subtly different to the 10.9 upgrade in the first place.

 

[orestes1984]

I don't follow the logic, if most people didn't suffer the issue until 10.9 came out then how were even Apple to know that 10.9 would cause such an issue? If they did, it would have been far easier for them to code round it.

The most common failure in laptops is the HDD - does that make all manufacturers culpable because they fit HDDs?? Should all manufacturers have a pre-emptive HDD replacement program as they are known to fail??

I think in all likelihood the initial failure rate was at a low level, handled by a suitable replace-on-failure approach appropriate to the Applecare period. Perhaps then a combination of factors causes an issue with 10.9 but I find it hard to believe that once panics occur with 10.9 they continue even if you downgrade the OS - either something isn't being changed back in the downgrade or the cause is subtly different to the 10.9 upgrade in the first place.

Not unless they knowingly mass manufacture laptops that have a SATA3 bus but can't actually run at SATA3 speeds with 99% of drives out there

 

[maflynn]

Apple seems to have a very poor track record with these dGPUs. No wonder Apple is trying to get rid of them from the 15" rMBPs as fast as possible.

I agree and I'm concerned about my 2012 rMBP and one thing is for sure, the next MBP I get will be iGPU only - if only for peace of mind.

 

[simonsi]

Not unless they knowingly mass manufacture laptops that have a SATA3 bus but can't actually run at SATA3 speeds with 99% of drives out there

Did they run at the speed Apple rated them at with the original supplied components? Yep thought so.

 

[orestes1984]

Did they run at the speed Apple rated them at with the original supplied components? Yep thought so.

it doesn't matter Intel SSD were around in 2011, knowingly mass producing a computer using a Chipset that rejects 99% of SATA3 SSDs and HDDs isn't a feature its a bug.

 

[laurihoefs]

it doesn't matter Intel SSD were around in 2011, knowingly mass producing a computer using a Chipset that rejects 99% of SATA3 SSDs and HDDs isn't a feature its a bug.

SATA compatibility issues are not specific to Apple laptops. I have first hand experience with Lenovo, Toshiba, and HP laptops, and Asus motherboards experiencing similar issues.

And 99%? Really?

 

[orestes1984]

SATA compatibility issues are not specific to Apple laptops. I have first hand experience with Lenovo, Toshiba, and HP laptops, and Asus motherboards experiencing similar issues.

And 99%? Really?

Yes really, there are very few SATA3 drives that actually work in 2011 MacBook Pros becayse of the chipset it uses. It's a well known bug that Apple simply addresses as a "hardware incompatibility" issue which is a major load of **** and then on the other hand while they work with some drives such as the OCZ Vertex, they fail with other drives such as the Corsair Force despite it using identical controllers.

That's quite simply not cricket.

 

[simonsi]

Yes really, there are very few SATA3 drives that actually work in 2011 MacBook Pros becayse of the chipset it uses. It's a well known bug that Apple simply addresses as a "hardware incompatibility" issue which is a major load of **** and then on the other hand while they work with some drives such as the OCZ Vertex, they fail with other drives such as the Corsair Force despite it using identical controllers.

That's quite simply not cricket.

And how many of those drives were actually around in 2011 or were released since? Hard to compatibility-test against hw that didn't exist.

If it works with some and not others as you say then your definition of "identical" is obviously flawed. hw doesn't have mood swings.

 

[laurihoefs]

Yes really, there are very few SATA3 drives that actually work in 2011 MacBook Pros becayse of the chipset it uses. It's a well known bug that Apple simply addresses as a "hardware incompatibility" issue which is a major load of **** and then on the other hand while they work with some drives such as the OCZ Vertex, they fail with other drives such as the Corsair Force despite it using identical controllers.

That's quite simply not cricket.

I don't know about the 2011 MBP issues specifically, but I suspect the issues are similar to what the other manufacturers have. The drives and chipsets comply to SATA III specifications, but as there is some room in the specs, compatibility issues can arise.

This is a hardware incompatibility issue, and unfortunately fairly common with SSDs.

And still: 99%?

Edit: OCZ Vertex and Corsair Force using the same controller does not mean anything in this context. The drives may (and most likely do) use different NAND, different components with different tolerances, and different firmware. They are not identical, even if they are based on the same controller and presumably the same reference design.

 

[orestes1984]

I ended up fitting a Crucial MX100 to get it to work. The funny thing is, that if I put the Corsair Force in any other Mac which runs on a SATA2 or SATA bus it works, which leaves the issue being a chipset incompatibility.

 

[simonsi]

I ended up fitting a Crucial MX100 to get it to work.

I have a 2011 13" with a Crucial M500 running their V2 fw in the optical bay, runs perfectly at SATA3 6Gbps speed with no errors....

 

[orestes1984]

I have a 2011 13" with a Crucial M500 running their V2 fw in the optical bay, runs perfectly at SATA3 6Gbps speed with no errors....

Yep, same with the MX100, it just works... the long of the short of it is fairly simple though, it's not good to blame the customer when you made a wrong decision in implementing a controller for a user upgradable part.

I guess it's easier than a full product recall on all of their 2011 13" MacBook Pros though This is one case where I don't fall in line with Apple logic.

 

[simonsi]

Yep, same with the MX100, it just works... the long of the short of it is fairly simple though, it's not good to blame the customer when you made a wrong decision in implementing a controller for a user upgradable part.

I guess it's easier than a full product recall on all of their 2011 13" MacBook Pros though

Unfortunately it is the job of 3rd party suppliers to be compatible with the base device they want to sell for, expecting Apple (or any other manufacturer) to recall products to be modified to work with 3rd party aftermarket is just unrealistic. They would essentially have to commercially insure against that risk by setting funds aside to cover it...which equates to increased purchase cost....

 

[SarcasticJoe]

I doubt the SATA incompatibility you're talking about has anything to do with Apple doing it on purpose. The cause is probably that the chipset provider didn't do enough testing and just used what was on the market at the time while skipping what might be used in yet-to-be-released products. From the 2011 (2010 for the 15" and 17") models onwards Apple has used Intel's chipsets the chipset is where the SATA controller is housed. Even with the brief period they were using Nvidia's chipsets the SATA controller was part of a bought in chipset. I don't think Apple has built it's own chipsets since at least the PPC days (when they could have been by Motorola or IBM).

So I don't think a repair program for the SATA problem is even realistic as they'd have to do full logic board swapouts and with the GPU issues in the 2010 model they were initially able to implement a software workaround, but for a hardware fix they'd need a full logic board swap, which isn't possible as nether the GPU's or CPU's are in production anymore.

Running a 15" 2011 machine myself and it's never had any problems with anything I've stuck inside of it, nether of the two aftermarket HDD's or the Samsung 840 SSD.