I have some update, hopefully constructive.
The timeouts are surprisingly regular, they happen every 15 minutes, and last for about a minute:
I dumped the ping log into a spreadsheet, and created a diagram.
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MacBook Pro Wi-Fi problems
- Thread starter HunPro
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I have some update, hopefully constructive.
The timeouts are surprisingly regular, they happen every 15 minutes, and last for about a minute:
I dumped the ping log into a spreadsheet, and created a diagram.
It seems as if something in your home turns on for 1 minute every 15 minutes. While it is on, it interferes with your WiFi. Start turning off everything in your home and unplugging it from power. RFI can come from places that would never be expected.
No.
Please look for the previous screenshot in this thread, that clearly shows the following:
- the rMBP has no problem pinging the router (192.168.0.1), it only fails to ping remote addresses
- other devices don't experience the same timeouts on remote addresses, ever
It is not a radio problem. Connection to the router is uninterrupted.
Anyone interested in this thread: please read the previous page first.
I'm a CTO of a large web service, I know how to debug. Looking for the most exotic problem is a terrible approach. We've already managed to take most of the voodoo out of this problem, so "reinstalling windows" or cycling the power or wrapping things in tinfoil is not necessary, and it should never be.
The problem is with the rMBP, on particular routers. Not a hardware problem, not every router, and it's not the router's problem.
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ASUS have already issued an update for some of their routers for this problem, indicating it IS a router issue (or there is a router-based issue that causes these symptoms, even if similar symptoms have other causes.
Likely other routers using the same chipset are equally affected even if their manufacturers haven't released an update.
Search the forum here, it was referenced in at least one thread on the subject.
Wireless networking has to be backwards compatible, and it's the client's responsibility.
This is how it has been ever since G was introduced on top of B.
If ONLY the rMBP with Yosemite doesn't play along nicely, while - as you can see in the previous page - all my other legacy devices work just fine, than it's not the router's problem.
I sense an Apple kind of ignorance, where a "genius" would just fall back to the solution of suggesting to buy an AirPort router.
To give you an example: do I expect cell phone towers to upgrade their software, if my iPhone keeps dropping the signal, while every other GSM device including decade old Nokias have no problem?
We're entering voodoo territory again, where I'm supposed to update the firmware on my router (if it exists), and hope that it will solve a problem unique to the rMBP.
This was my hypothetical answer. The practical one is: my router is up to date.
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Trouble with your argument is that ASUS did issue an update, I suspect that there was a latent flaw in their chipset's implementation of the WiFi standard, else they would not have taken the cost hit to issue an update, they did.
Not voodoo, engineering. ASUS issued an update specifically for this problem, they are not being paid by Apple to do that.
Without understanding what that flaw was and why ASUS issued the update we can't say further. That doesn't make it voodoo.
If you had an ASUS router would you not apply such an update because of your flawed logic that the numbers dictate it is an Apple problem? (for instance it may not be technically possible for Apple to fix at their end, a flaw in the ASUS implementation, just to give you an example possibility).
BTW, I'm in the ISP trade and your root cause analysis is flawed if you hold to a "majority must be right" view of engineering.
Some constructive rage on router updating.
So if I recall correctly, the Asus router in question was pushing the latest AC standard, and Asus screwed up, so they released an update.
My router is B/G/N. If I set it to G only, the same problem happens. It doesn't matter anyway, because we've already established that it's not the physical layer's problem, so take it as yet another confirmation.
Here's a hypothetical product: ZhenzouTec-X666 Android phone, $69 on dx.com. It just came out, it's more recent than my MacBook.
Here's an example: you have an iPhone 5S (rMBP). It works fine. You update it to iOS 8 (Yosemite). It seemingly works fine, but there are places where it has connectivity problems (home). Would you really suggest, that the cell tower (wifi router) is the problem? When everyone else seems to be able to use their phone there? Old phones, iPhones with iOS 7, and also the ZhenzouTec-X666 works just fine.
Here's another example: I'm at an airport. I have to use the wifi with my rMBP. I have issues. No one else does. The guy with the ZhenzouTec-X666 can use it just fine. Am I suppose to ask the airport's management to update their router?
It's absurd.
This sort of apologetic approach to Apple, borderline victim blaming, wether the victim is the user or a 3rd party product, is getting really boring.
But hey, there's one more thing:
My colleague has a 2013 MacBook Air, running Yosemite. He has the same problem. Every 15 minutes on his home router. Made by Linksys, not Cisco.
So should we blame everything but Yosemite, or can we finally accept, I know it's painful, that Apple screwed up and they are ignoring a serious problem?
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Great. Then you know why networking protocols exists.
It's not the router's job to know the quirks of the clients, it's the client's job to implement the existing protocols.
No router in the world can know all possible clients, wether it's the MacBook or the ZhenZou-X666, and no client is expected to know all possible routers, wether they were made by Asus, Cisco or Linksys.
If various routers with a mix of various different devices can work together nicely, and only certain products (MacBook Pro, MacBook Air) seem to have a problem, the exact same problem, and the only thing they truly have in common is Yosemite, than it's pretty clear who's to blame.
And again: the Asus one was a new AC router, and Asus screwed up. My router is B/G/N, and my 2007 Windows laptop works fine with it, just like my first gen iPad or my MBA with Mavericks. It also happens on someone else's Linksys router. The same problem.
So if I recall correctly, the Asus router in question was pushing the latest AC standard, and Asus screwed up, so they released an update.
My router is B/G/N. If I set it to G only, the same problem happens. It doesn't matter anyway, because we've already established that it's not the physical layer's problem, so take it as yet another confirmation.
Here's a hypothetical product: ZhenzouTec-X666 Android phone, $69 on dx.com. It just came out, it's more recent than my MacBook.
Here's an example: you have an iPhone 5S (rMBP). It works fine. You update it to iOS 8 (Yosemite). It seemingly works fine, but there are places where it has connectivity problems (home). Would you really suggest, that the cell tower (wifi router) is the problem? When everyone else seems to be able to use their phone there? Old phones, iPhones with iOS 7, and also the ZhenzouTec-X666 works just fine.
Here's another example: I'm at an airport. I have to use the wifi with my rMBP. I have issues. No one else does. The guy with the ZhenzouTec-X666 can use it just fine. Am I suppose to ask the airport's management to update their router?
It's absurd.
This sort of apologetic approach to Apple, borderline victim blaming, wether the victim is the user or a 3rd party product, is getting really boring.
But hey, there's one more thing:
My colleague has a 2013 MacBook Air, running Yosemite. He has the same problem. Every 15 minutes on his home router. Made by Linksys, not Cisco.
So should we blame everything but Yosemite, or can we finally accept, I know it's painful, that Apple screwed up and they are ignoring a serious problem?
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Great. Then you know why networking protocols exists.
It's not the router's job to know the quirks of the clients, it's the client's job to implement the existing protocols.
No router in the world can know all possible clients, wether it's the MacBook or the ZhenZou-X666, and no client is expected to know all possible routers, wether they were made by Asus, Cisco or Linksys.
If various routers with a mix of various different devices can work together nicely, and only certain products (MacBook Pro, MacBook Air) seem to have a problem, the exact same problem, and the only thing they truly have in common is Yosemite, than it's pretty clear who's to blame.
And again: the Asus one was a new AC router, and Asus screwed up. My router is B/G/N, and my 2007 Windows laptop works fine with it, just like my first gen iPad or my MBA with Mavericks. It also happens on someone else's Linksys router. The same problem.
Two things. There are multiple possible causes for the same or similar symptom(s).
I don't doubt that Apple has work to do but I suspect their part of it is definitely the additional BT traffic caused by Handoff.
The ASUS issue is obviously theirs (and may be quite prevalent, depending on the chipset and driver being used - same chipsets are often shared by multiple router manufacturers).
I am not claiming Apple is innocent, equally blaming Apple for ALL issues won't be correct either as above evidenced by "ASUS screwed up".
Again your root cause analysis approach is flawed. I know you would love "your problem" to be "the problem" and conclude it is Apples problem but there are enough varieties of WiFi issues to indicate there isn't one problem but several, or possibly one problem with several different trigger circumstances.
Anyhow good luck.
I am having similar problem to you but just not as frequent. A couple of times this weekend I was shopping on line and everything was good until I came to pay and just would not connect. I completed both transactions by tethering my iphone. As you indicate the WIFI symbol at the top is solid but the communiction out to the internet seem to stall. Also experience the same problem reading news sites. I thought it was my network at one time but was able to dismiss that by comparing an ethernet connected device.
The problem I have with saying "Asus issued a fix therefore it's a router problem".
I have tried my rMBP on 3 different routers (in 3 different locations). At home I have a Home Hub 5 (which I know is pretty rubbish) however, I didn't have any problems on Mavericks and the 6 other devices connected to the router have no problems.
I have also tried on a new Netgear router (not sure what model), same problem.
Finally my works wifi (no idea what router they're using), same problem.
I believe Asus probably know more about the problem than Apple so have issued some sort of work around.
This is a widespread issue, I doubt all of these people have "faulty routers" considering it's only their macbooks that are having problems.
10.10.3 has helped a lot, I now only have to turn wifi off/on about 30% of the time (as opposed to almost 100% of the time before) the random drop outs are also less frequent but are still happening.
I have tried my rMBP on 3 different routers (in 3 different locations). At home I have a Home Hub 5 (which I know is pretty rubbish) however, I didn't have any problems on Mavericks and the 6 other devices connected to the router have no problems.
I have also tried on a new Netgear router (not sure what model), same problem.
Finally my works wifi (no idea what router they're using), same problem.
I believe Asus probably know more about the problem than Apple so have issued some sort of work around.
This is a widespread issue, I doubt all of these people have "faulty routers" considering it's only their macbooks that are having problems.
10.10.3 has helped a lot, I now only have to turn wifi off/on about 30% of the time (as opposed to almost 100% of the time before) the random drop outs are also less frequent but are still happening.
I have an Asus AC68U router running the latest Merlin build Firmware. I don't appear to have any WiFi issues at all (I hope I have not just jinxed myself) and upon doing some ping testing I get zero packet loss.
Like everyone else I am running 10.10.3 Yosemite on a week old 8/512 2015 rMBP.
Like everyone else I am running 10.10.3 Yosemite on a week old 8/512 2015 rMBP.
The topic is not about Asus routers. It was a bad example for a possible solution.
Please read the thread.
With some routers, Yosemite works fine. With others, it has regular timeouts. No other device is affected, only MacBooks running Yosemite.
We're talking about regular B/G/N routers from multiple vendors that - and I have to emphasize this - were and are working just fine with other devices, including MacBooks running Mavericks.
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Thank you for confirming this suspicion.
So now we have Cisco, Linksys and Netgear, exhibiting the same problem, but only with Yosemite running MacBooks.
Unfortunately I didn't create a diagram like the one above with 10.10.2, so my observation is purely anecdotal, but it seems that 10.10.3 did improve it, as it went from 5-10 minute intervals to almost perfectly 15 minute intervals.
I think I'm having the same issue. Only seems to happen at home. Apple kept it overnight and said the wifi didn't drop at all. I'm not as tech savvy as you, so I'm not sure what I can personally do to fix my issue. My phone/iPad and my wife's Air work just fine...
Any suggestions??
Any suggestions??
Show them this forum?
As you can see, no matter what you do, it's just placebo and borderline voodoo.
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I'm finding similar users in exactly the same situation.
"Funny thing none of the other mac's androids and windows systems had the problem. All mac's have the same Yosemite 10.10.2 however."
This one is really said:
"I've tried absolutely everything you can think of. You name it, I've tried it, I've even had to sign NDA's with Apple when they have sent me un-released patches which were supposed to fx the problem.
Yesterday, I finally found a solution and my internet connection is now stable: Turn off wi-fi and connect a cable from the iMac to the router. This has not gone down well with my wife as we now have a 25m long cable running through the apartment but it really does fix the wi-fi problem"
Show them this forum?
As you can see, no matter what you do, it's just placebo and borderline voodoo.
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I'm finding similar users in exactly the same situation.
"Funny thing none of the other mac's androids and windows systems had the problem. All mac's have the same Yosemite 10.10.2 however."
This one is really said:
"I've tried absolutely everything you can think of. You name it, I've tried it, I've even had to sign NDA's with Apple when they have sent me un-released patches which were supposed to fx the problem.
Yesterday, I finally found a solution and my internet connection is now stable: Turn off wi-fi and connect a cable from the iMac to the router. This has not gone down well with my wife as we now have a 25m long cable running through the apartment but it really does fix the wi-fi problem"
So far no issues at work...if I'm not on Yosemite and all other devices work fine at home, can it really be my router? I use Optimum cable/internet/phone service with their router.
OK, sorry I missed the fact that you have a solid connection to the router. Can you do a traceroute to see where the timeout is occurring when the pings are failing? Do you have a way to analyze the returned ICMP packets?
I will look into it. I was thinking about a traceroute just this morning, but my internet connection is down.
There's a new, interesting possibility: the MacBook, or its struggle that results in a timeout somehow screws up the ISPs connection to the router.
I know it sounds wild, but the following already happened twice:
- the usual problem discussed in this topic happens
- I get fed up, and out of desperation I restart the router
- the router comes online, but it can't connect to the ISP
Power cycling the router shouldn't result in this, and it never ever did before.
There were two occurrences:
1. My parent's home: different ISP, different router (maybe Linksys?). Internet came back within half an hour. They might have done something at the ISPs end.
2. My home last night: the Cisco router fails to connect. There are steps to establish a DOCSIS connection, and it's stuck. I've called the ISP and they are looking into it.
This is really weird, but since it happened twice, I might as well leave it here for the Google bot.
With the Cisco router, it's stuck around this state:
DOCSIS Downstream Scanning: Completed / In Progress
DOSCIS Ranging: In progress
It's a long shot, but whatever.
Great. I lost a post because of this damn problem.
So. Router replaced.
New router: Technicolor TC2700.20, 5GHz
Much more recent than the Cisco.
Same problem happens. It was not the router's fault.
Other devices have no problem to connect to the internet, except the one Yosemite.
Signal strength to the ISP is great. Bandwith is great. MacBook Pro: unusable.
So. Router replaced.
New router: Technicolor TC2700.20, 5GHz
Much more recent than the Cisco.
Same problem happens. It was not the router's fault.
Other devices have no problem to connect to the internet, except the one Yosemite.
Signal strength to the ISP is great. Bandwith is great. MacBook Pro: unusable.
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Airport fix?
This probably won't help most people - I was using a family member's existing cable modem/router setup. After installing the Yosemite betas, my computer has been exhibiting the wi-fi stall problem. Temporary hot spot connections to my iPhone helped, but I couldn't maintain that without running thru my cell data. I tried trashing preferences and adding a new location without success. Then I remembered that I had a spare Airport Extreme. After plugging it into the router yesterday, switching my computer over to the Airport network, and resolving the double NAT issue, my wi-fi stall problem is gone.
This probably won't help most people - I was using a family member's existing cable modem/router setup. After installing the Yosemite betas, my computer has been exhibiting the wi-fi stall problem. Temporary hot spot connections to my iPhone helped, but I couldn't maintain that without running thru my cell data. I tried trashing preferences and adding a new location without success. Then I remembered that I had a spare Airport Extreme. After plugging it into the router yesterday, switching my computer over to the Airport network, and resolving the double NAT issue, my wi-fi stall problem is gone.
Right now my MBP seems to be ok at home, at least for the last hour or so. As of this morning I was debating getting rid of it and buying a new Air. I wonder if an Airport extreme would solve my issue.
Don't get an Air.
I know an Air user who has the same problem, so the problem is Yosemite.
Getting an AirPort to solve this problem is borderline extortion.
This was never going to be a Router problem. I am using and Apple airport extreme and experiencing the same problem. It is clearly related to the Yosemite upgrade.
What do you mean by reseting the NIC?
Turning it on/off, or removing and readding the interface?
I'm think about relaunching airportd the next time this problem happens. I've restarted my MacBook, so it went away for now.
Thanks! Your example is much harder to dismiss as a 3rd party problem.
Please write to Apple support: https://www.apple.com/feedback/
I left them a report for 10.10.2, 10.10.3 and 10.10.3 with the new router. I'm not happy about writing naggy feedback, I don't like to receive those myself, but what else can I do? I'm desperate.
This is an example of what I've sent them:
Every 15 minutes pings timeout to remote addresses for about a minute.
Pings to the router are fine.
All other devices on the router are fine (Windows, Andorid, iPhone, old iPad, Mavericks MBA).
Router is Cisco EPC3925.
I've already sent a similar report for 10.10.2.
Multiple users report the same, with different Macs and router vendors. All Yosemite.
Diagram of the pings: [link]
No particular console log activity.
MacBook works fine on my work Wi-Fi.