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The 13" with some tweaks could probably handle 47W just fine. But it seems that those 28W CPUs will make it into the 13".

actually according to reviews of desktop haswel we will have increase in temperature (hello superthrottling)
It is rather unlikely that they use an HQ CPU AND a dGPU. So without the dGPU the two fan cooling system has only to deal with those 47W and no additional 30-45W for the GPU so heat should be manageable.
 
Using the highest end IGPU, I'm thinking that Apple may be tempted to omit the dGPU in the base model 15 rMBP.....

Most likely. I guess there's a chance for the base model to have the Iris Pro, and the high end model to have a Nvidia GT 750M instead. Problem is, since Iris Pro is slower than today's GT 650, you'll likely have to buy the high end model to get improved graphics performance. And we all know what the high end model costs...
 
Anandtech has benchmarks for this exact CPU with the Iris Pro 5200
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested


If they release a 13" rMBP with Quad Core and the 5200 pro, I'm going to be pretty upset for getting my MBA!

The 13" is almost definitely going with the 28W CPUs which are dual core with HD 5100. It fits the thermal profile and showed up in the benchmark from a couple weeks back.

If you look at the new Airs and at OSX 10.9, their push right now seems to be towards slightly better performance while maximizing battery life.
 
The 13" is almost definitely going with the 28W CPUs which are dual core with HD 5100. It fits the thermal profile and showed up in the benchmark from a couple weeks back.

If you look at the new Airs and at OSX 10.9, their push right now seems to be towards slightly better performance while maximizing battery life.

If the 13" could support 16GB RAM it would be perfect for me :D
 
Most likely. I guess there's a chance for the base model to have the Iris Pro, and the high end model to have a Nvidia GT 750M instead. Problem is, since Iris Pro is slower than today's GT 650, you'll likely have to buy the high end model to get improved graphics performance. And we all know what the high end model costs...
I don't think there is such a chance. If that was the case that base model wouldn't come with the 4950HQ which is an incredibly expensive chip. It would be a 4750hq or 4850hq at the highest.
If that isn't a fake, I think you can kiss all chances for a dGPU good by.
It wouldn't make any sense to see a 4950hq in a 15" unless it is the highend without any dedicated GPU.

RAM size seems to have been always more an issue of how many chips they want to make space for on the logic board. I don't know where they are yet chip sizes and their cost. That is what will determine whether there will be a 32gb option.
 
The 13" is almost definitely going with the 28W CPUs which are dual core with HD 5100. It fits the thermal profile and showed up in the benchmark from a couple weeks back.

If you look at the new Airs and at OSX 10.9, their push right now seems to be towards slightly better performance while maximizing battery life.

Yah I realize that, which is a shame to be honest, Intel should have made a dual core i7 with the Iris 5200! Hopefully at least with a 28W TDP the 5100 GPU on the rMBPs shouldn't be nearly as thermally constrained as the GPU on the MBA is.

Come on, you knew the risk you were taking in getting the Air before any updated haswell MBP was announced.

Of course, doesn't mean I can't get upset about it and sell my MBA for a rMBP! :D
 
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I don't think there is such a chance. If that was the case that base model wouldn't come with the 4950HQ which is an incredibly expensive chip. It would be a 4750hq or 4850hq at the highest.
If that isn't a fake, I think you can kiss all chances for a dGPU good by.
It wouldn't make any sense to see a 4950hq in a 15" unless it is the highend without any dedicated GPU.

RAM size seems to have been always more an issue of how many chips they want to make space for on the logic board. I don't know where they are yet chip sizes and their cost. That is what will determine whether there will be a 32gb option.

I just can't imagine a refreshed 15 inch rMBP without a discrete graphics card. Assuming they put in a 750, what kind of performance could we expect in a lower end 15 inch model? Also, are there any radeon cards that apple could conceivably use?
 
Clock speeds on Haswell is incomparable. Trust him that 4950HQ is the highest spec, this processor is the top of the line mobile processor. (Until 4960 in September).

im guessing this is the stock high-end model with the i7-HQ4950. The base model will be the i7-HQ4850. In late September or so, they'll add a BTO option on the high end model for a 4960.

The i7-HQ4750's GPU is clocked 100mhz lower than the rest, so I don't think apple will use it on a $2200 machine.
 
im guessing this is the stock high-end model with the i7-HQ4950. The base model will be the i7-HQ4850. In late September or so, they'll add a BTO option on the high end model for a 4960.

The i7-HQ4750's GPU is clocked 100mhz lower than the rest, so I don't think apple will use it on a $2200 machine.

apple did use 2.0 Quads before, but thats 2010.

could possibly be a choice ... 4750 base, 4850 high end, 4950 upgrade.
 
I just can't imagine a refreshed 15 inch rMBP without a discrete graphics card. Assuming they put in a 750, what kind of performance could we expect in a lower end 15 inch model? Also, are there any radeon cards that apple could conceivably use?

If Apple is using Iris Pro, then you can kiss discrete GPU goodbye.

Looks like the 2012 models will suddenly see a surge in value after that move, because no matter how you want to spin it, Iris Pro just isn't fast enough to handle games and OpenGL applications on a display that high in resolution... especially considering it's slower than 650M, and the 650M in the last rMBP is overclocked even further by Apple.
 
As I predicted no reason to wait for Haswell for those shopping for rMBP:

Current Model 2.7GHz 12250 Geek bench 32-Bit OSX
Haswell Model 2.4GHz 12500 Geek bench 32-bit OSX

Apart from the fact that lower clock speeds are getting about the same performance, it's not going to be noticeable.

Still glad I paid 20% less the RRP for what amounts to still be the best laptop ever made :)

Clock speed and Geekbench score were never thought to be the reason to wait for Haswell. Real determinants as to whether or not waiting will have been worth it are battery life, price drops (or upspeccing) and those we already know like 802.11ac and TB2.


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you're wrong mate.
people waiting for haswell isn't expecting any large performance increase in CPU ( if there's any )

what we are expecting is other stuff such as improved battery life, thunderbolt2 ( some ), better GPU and others.

I'm waiting for the better GPU. Probably nothing less than the 750M. I'm expecting 8GB of RAM to be the base in all models but a 16GB configuration available in the 13" and maybe 32GB in the 15".

I just can't imagine a refreshed 15 inch rMBP without a discrete graphics card. Assuming they put in a 750, what kind of performance could we expect in a lower end 15 inch model? Also, are there any radeon cards that apple could conceivably use?

I'm guessing they'll offer a 15" with no dGPU while still giving us the option to configure one with an Nvida card. So the baseline 15" would be the same as a 13" leaving the selling points for the 15" over 13" to be the bigger screen plus higher configuration options.

They could use Radeon but I doubt they will. Nvidia's got the best notebook GPUs as far as I know and Apple will want the best possible thing they can put in their computer. Though, I do believe the current generation of Mac Pro can be purchased with a Radeon GPU in it so they're not completely against AMD or anything like that.
 
Clock speed and Geekbench score were never thought to be the reason to wait for Haswell. Real determinants as to whether or not waiting will have been worth it are battery life, price drops (or upspeccing) and those we already know like 802.11ac and TB2.


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For me it would be GPU performance, especially on the 13" rMBP.
 
I'm waiting for the better GPU. Probably nothing less than the 750M. I'm expecting 8GB of RAM to be the base in all models but a 16GB configuration available in the 13" and maybe 32GB in the 15".



I'm guessing they'll offer a 15" with no dGPU while still giving us the option to configure one with an Nvida card. So the baseline 15" would be the same as a 13" leaving the selling points for the 15" over 13" to be the bigger screen plus higher configuration options.

They could use Radeon but I doubt they will. Nvidia's got the best notebook GPUs as far as I know and Apple will want the best possible thing they can put in their computer. Though, I do believe the current generation of Mac Pro can be purchased with a Radeon GPU in it so they're not completely against AMD or anything like that.

Not going to happen. The other posters stating above about the 'death' of the dGPU in Apple's portable lineup are correct. Please look up the ridiculous prices Intel is charging for their Iris Pro chips. The one Haswell with Iris Pro chip benchmarked in Geekbench costs Apple the same as would a lower end Haswell without Iris Pro paired with a GT750M. Why would Apple sell a rMBP without discrete graphics for cheaper when it costs them the same to make one with a separate discrete chip?
 
I predict a 10+ hour battery life to be the killer selling point of the computer, much like the Airs.

Since the performance of the machine appears to be on par with the 2012 model.
 
Hmm the GT 650M is a 45w chip, AMD's 76**M series are in the 20-25W region. Possibly a switch to AMD this time round? I can understand Apple would want good integrated Graphics to drive the retina

food for thought

Edit- The more I look into it I start thinking the 7750M is a possibility at 28W or even the 7770M at 32W
 
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Oh man, this is huge.

Does anyone know if the Iris Pro's are strong enough to run 3D-renderings? I'm waiting for the Haswell updates, but I really need the capability the dGPU offers.
 
Not going to happen. The other posters stating above about the 'death' of the dGPU in Apple's portable lineup are correct. Please look up the ridiculous prices Intel is charging for their Iris Pro chips. The one Haswell with Iris Pro chip benchmarked in Geekbench costs Apple the same as would a lower end Haswell without Iris Pro paired with a GT750M. Why would Apple sell a rMBP without discrete graphics for cheaper when it costs them the same to make one with a separate discrete chip?
Easier to do software and bootcamp support when you have only one chip to look after, instead of two. Simplifies logic board construction.

I won't be surprised at all if the MBPR leaves out the dGPU in the basic model but keeping it as an upgrade option.
 
Easier to do software and bootcamp support when you have only one chip to look after, instead of two. Simplifies logic board construction.

I won't be surprised at all if the MBPR leaves out the dGPU in the basic model but keeping it as an upgrade option.

this would be a great hit to the graphics performance.
honestly? Intel graphics is as good as nothing for serious rendering tasks.
 
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The low voltage (i.e., ultrabook targeted) haswell variants are the only ones to get the highest spec integrated "Iris" GPUs from what I've seen? Which makes sense as you are more concerned with power than ultimate GPU performance.

If you're going for a quad core haswell, you won't be getting high end Iris graphics this time around I suspect.

My bet is that the MBP 15" models will come with Discrete GPU until Broadwell and maybe later.

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Not going to happen. The other posters stating above about the 'death' of the dGPU in Apple's portable lineup are correct. Please look up the ridiculous prices Intel is charging for their Iris Pro chips. The one Haswell with Iris Pro chip benchmarked in Geekbench costs Apple the same as would a lower end Haswell without Iris Pro paired with a GT750M. Why would Apple sell a rMBP without discrete graphics for cheaper when it costs them the same to make one with a separate discrete chip?

It WILL happen eventually, and the rest of the mobile market and later, desktop market will follow suit (by say, 2019-2020) except for some very small niche markets for a couple of reasons (none of which involve intel CPU cost):

  • Integrated GPU performance improvement is outpacing software requierment increases at the moment
  • Battery life
  • Thermal budget
  • If recent history is anything to go by Broadwell's GPU will likely be comparable with the GPU in the new big consoles

An Iris capable CPU/GPU uses a max of what... 45 watts? vs. a CPU + GT750 which will be up near 90 watts total, giving half the battery life and double the heat.

If you give intel the same 90 watts max TDP to play with then...

If intel make broadwell or a later mobile CPU+GPU multi socket capable and apple uses this (i.e., replace the GPU with a second CPU socket), a machine with dual iris CPU/GPUs will blow a CPU+GPU combo from intel/nvidia out of the water in CPU tasks and probably blow their mobile chips out of the water in GPU tasks as well.

Power management will be simpler as well, as will GPU switching (single driver) - on battery, just turn a socket off entirely if required... and there's nothing stopping intel from scaling to more than 2 sockets in the desktop market, either. Graphics are "embarassingly parallel" and easy to scale with more units.

Nvidia and AMD should be very concerned that the discrete GPU market will most likely be a very small niche inside of 3-5 years (i.e., ultra high end workstation GPUs only).

Unless they diversify and come up with a new market, or find some way to compete with what intel no doubt has in the pipeline, they're both walking corpses.

Intel don't have to be "best". They just need to be more than good enough for the vast majority so that 3D software is written to work well with their hardware.
 
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