I've had dozens of computers, and none of the logic boards ever failed over several months/years of usage. The 2010 MBP was my first ever logic board failure, and it happened in a week, not a good sign. And it wasn't an isolated incident, check the forum threads, tons of reports of failed boards.
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Macbook Pros engineered to fail
- Thread starter vishkap
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I've had dozens of computers, and none of the logic boards ever failed over several months/years of usage. The 2010 MBP was my first ever logic board failure, and it happened in a week, not a good sign. And it wasn't an isolated incident, check the forum threads, tons of reports of failed boards.
Yeah, not the old ones up to late 2011 weren't. However I think it is more grim for 2012 macbook pros. Give them a few years to finally improve the 2012 line. My early 2007 17" is still working hard even though I disconnected the fans for the past 2 months. It's temp doesn't even reach as high as the 15" retina macbook toy when viewing a puppy video (2:13 length), retina got scorching and fans roaring up a storm from across the room for 15 minutes while temp climbed and climbed. Everyone says it's normal. I say B.S.
Did every MBP 2010 produced fail ? NO
Did Ton's or millions (if you will) fail ? NO
Are Apple service center swamped with lines around
the Genius bars and stacks of broken 2010 MBPs ? NO
If it happens to you of course it isn't isolated, but it doesn't mean the sky is falling either.
SO for the sake of argument in Apples heritage lets agree some computers may never fail and some may fail more often then others.
And I agree with you that some products seem to kick the bucket sooner than others.
A manufactures warranty is a STRONG indicator as to the design life cycle of their product.
They are saying you give us your money and we will deliver a product that is designed to function for ONE to THREE (with Apple care) years.
THAT IS IT, no warranty extensions for love or money.
Screens don't magically inherit extra brightness or life, batteries will not cycle for ever, fans will not spin continuously into the sunset.
Repetitive thermal shock will make an end of semiconductor and their interconnections.
Consume products are NOT engineered like a satellite launched into space that cannot fail and require redundant systems.
Anything past your 1-3 year purchase that feels more like a lease is gravy.
If the mother board in the rMBP is sized like a ruler compared to the shirt card board in your 17"
AND
The processing power is a magnitude higher
AND
Just the physical number of transistors in the processor cores and semiconductors in the graphics processors are like 4 times your 17".
AND
The batteries and wattage dwarf the processor.
Where did you expect all the heat to go ?
Thermal pipes and fans are the rule of the day to account for the smaller size.
Without them it would (briefly) light up like a dim bulb.
Put the puppy videos away and crack those physics books.
Engineers aren't lawyers. Engineers aren't business people. Stereotype, but whatever.
Engineers know what they are building. They know the ins and outs of it. They measured everything and know when and what will fail (probabilities). At some point, they call it a day and say "yup, the probabilities are good enough" (6 sigma is thrown out there as a goal).
A lawyer getting their hands on the engineer documentation can spin it to be "engineered to fail"... That is just BS. It is engineered to work, and the only thing worth discussing is whether they got the goals/requirements correct.
Engineers know what they are building. They know the ins and outs of it. They measured everything and know when and what will fail (probabilities). At some point, they call it a day and say "yup, the probabilities are good enough" (6 sigma is thrown out there as a goal).
A lawyer getting their hands on the engineer documentation can spin it to be "engineered to fail"... That is just BS. It is engineered to work, and the only thing worth discussing is whether they got the goals/requirements correct.
It's called planned obsolescence and it is most definitely not unique to Apple.
Though it is a weird way to think about products, especially expensive ones, but everything you buy is disposable.
Though it is a weird way to think about products, especially expensive ones, but everything you buy is disposable.
I have yet to see anyone point out that it was Nvidia's engineering issue on the GPU's and not Apples. HP and Dell also got bitten, so it wasn't anything specific to Apple or their engineering. Chip manufacturer made a defective GPU and by the luck of the draw Apple (and others) used it. It happens.
The logic boards are replaced frequently in repairs because everything is soldered to them. Easier for Apple to just swap out than to have to re-solder chips. It is in their troubleshooting documentation internally. After like 10 steps you "replace the logic board" because at that point time and money for the employee starts eating away the usefulness of support. if you are out of warranty you have to pay out of pocket. So buy Applecare and hope nothing bad happens after 3 years. That's the same deal with all kinds of goods. I've had GPU's go bad, CPU's, Memory slot traces, etc.. In a Macbook this means replacing the logic board (motherboard). Class Action is without merit they are not engineered to fail. But when something goes wrong chances are it is the brain (logic board) that controls 90% of the computers functionality. That part just happens to either be sound or it is completely replaced because they don't have techs with soldering irons behind the curtains. Blame the throwaway society or Henry Ford.
I have a 2009 17" Hi Res MBP. Over its life is has taken two falls from about 4feet to hardwood flooring while up and running.
After the first, I decided to get the bottom part of the uni-body replaced for cosmetic reasons and I also had to replace the HD which started to fail from the fall.
Recently, it took another 4 footer off my bed which resulted in another HD failure, fortunately everything else was fine. I just put in a Samsung 830 SSD and the machine runs faster and more fluid then ever. 4 more gigs of memory and this machine should last another 3 years. So...engineered to fail??? I don't think so.
After the first, I decided to get the bottom part of the uni-body replaced for cosmetic reasons and I also had to replace the HD which started to fail from the fall.
Recently, it took another 4 footer off my bed which resulted in another HD failure, fortunately everything else was fine. I just put in a Samsung 830 SSD and the machine runs faster and more fluid then ever. 4 more gigs of memory and this machine should last another 3 years. So...engineered to fail??? I don't think so.
I've used my MacBook Pro extensively, every day since I bought it.
It comes on the road with me, is carried around in my rucksack most week days, and I've even dropped it three times.
It's over three years old now, as still just as good as when it first came out of the box. They are not engineered to fail.
It comes on the road with me, is carried around in my rucksack most week days, and I've even dropped it three times.
It's over three years old now, as still just as good as when it first came out of the box. They are not engineered to fail.
The main board of any laptop is especially vulnerable to failure because of the flex when picking it up. I have used and abused several MacBook Pros and none of them had a failure. It sucks when it happens but saying they are engineered to fail is a very trollish statement. Nothing made by humans lasts forever so is it all engineered to fail?
I am the original poster, and I have nothing to gain from posting on here.
I do however wish to draw attention to some modicum of sense and skepticism in some of the posters.
Yes, of course, for those who have business brains, I am referring to the practice of planned obselesence.
Many of the points brought up used flawed logic (my MacBook didn't fail; all MacBooks don't fail) to evidence their arguments. For my statement to hold, 3-5 out of a hundred is sufficient over a period of 4-5 years for these users to have to re-buy a MacBook, or invest in new components.
Apple have a track record of engineering in planned obcelesence into their machines (early iPods and early iPhones are a good example).
Of course this is fine for a throwaway culture (I notice many of the posters are from USA, who's economy is driven by planned obcelesence, without the awareness of many of its citizens). However, for the distribution that apple has this could be a major issue: first for users (congested repair areas, means longer wait times for geniuses); for the environment (where do you think the 'failed' logic boards go? Just for a clue they don't go back into another machine) and also in the long term for their business.
I was told unironically at pick up by the genius on hand that he 'was a pc', twice. The standard line is that 'you should invest in AppleCare to protect yourself'. As this is the last laptop I would ever need to buy from apple, with advances in tablet tech around the corner, I understand their positioning; however I think that it is extremely naive, from the user perspectives posted here, to think that just because pre 2010 machines had longevity that post 2011 machines will have similar longevity.
The logic board issue, was and still will be an issue whether the users on this board choose to acknowledge it or not. If you feel so priveliged to own an apple machine that you don't consider a 2-5 percent risk of failure of a $1400 machine in its first years to be an issue, then that is your choice. I can tell you though, that much of apple's distribution and sales come from outside the USA and some of these customers would react a lot more strongly to these issues, which would not be good news for the company going forward.
I think that it is true that other companies have had similar failure rates with machines, but apple is in a position where it can engineer a better standard; but is choosing the path of greater and greater profit. This is a shame as I can see clearly that the older MacBooks are certainly more resilient than their pc counterparts.
For those who write this off as 'conspiracy theory', you would do well to attend a business school. Much of sucessful marketing and profit can be tracked back to sucessful 'conspiring', as you may call it. feel free to google the Atlantic's excellent article from 1983 regarding debeer's supply chain control followed by manufacture and exploitation of demand of their diamonds for a nice classic case study.
I do however wish to draw attention to some modicum of sense and skepticism in some of the posters.
Yes, of course, for those who have business brains, I am referring to the practice of planned obselesence.
Many of the points brought up used flawed logic (my MacBook didn't fail; all MacBooks don't fail) to evidence their arguments. For my statement to hold, 3-5 out of a hundred is sufficient over a period of 4-5 years for these users to have to re-buy a MacBook, or invest in new components.
Apple have a track record of engineering in planned obcelesence into their machines (early iPods and early iPhones are a good example).
Of course this is fine for a throwaway culture (I notice many of the posters are from USA, who's economy is driven by planned obcelesence, without the awareness of many of its citizens). However, for the distribution that apple has this could be a major issue: first for users (congested repair areas, means longer wait times for geniuses); for the environment (where do you think the 'failed' logic boards go? Just for a clue they don't go back into another machine) and also in the long term for their business.
I was told unironically at pick up by the genius on hand that he 'was a pc', twice. The standard line is that 'you should invest in AppleCare to protect yourself'. As this is the last laptop I would ever need to buy from apple, with advances in tablet tech around the corner, I understand their positioning; however I think that it is extremely naive, from the user perspectives posted here, to think that just because pre 2010 machines had longevity that post 2011 machines will have similar longevity.
The logic board issue, was and still will be an issue whether the users on this board choose to acknowledge it or not. If you feel so priveliged to own an apple machine that you don't consider a 2-5 percent risk of failure of a $1400 machine in its first years to be an issue, then that is your choice. I can tell you though, that much of apple's distribution and sales come from outside the USA and some of these customers would react a lot more strongly to these issues, which would not be good news for the company going forward.
I think that it is true that other companies have had similar failure rates with machines, but apple is in a position where it can engineer a better standard; but is choosing the path of greater and greater profit. This is a shame as I can see clearly that the older MacBooks are certainly more resilient than their pc counterparts.
For those who write this off as 'conspiracy theory', you would do well to attend a business school. Much of sucessful marketing and profit can be tracked back to sucessful 'conspiring', as you may call it. feel free to google the Atlantic's excellent article from 1983 regarding debeer's supply chain control followed by manufacture and exploitation of demand of their diamonds for a nice classic case study.
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You sure about that? The components on the logic board are EXPENSIVE. Apple or one of its suppliers has the ability to do component level troubleshooting and repair. I imagine you're correct and some of these boards aren't fixable, but the majority are. In the past I've worked at an AASP and I know that sometimes replacement parts for the service center are new and other times they're refurbished(this includes logic boards). Those refurbished parts are being fixed somewhere.
I'm not an expert on this subject, but I test, troubleshoot and rework circuit boards every day. I work at a small shop and we don't build or repair MacBook Pro logic boards, but we do build and sometimes repair pretty complex stuff.
What "Logic board issue" are you talking about? You're complaining that since everything is built into one circuit board it is expensive to fix? I understand that this is frustrating, but did you see my other post? There are engineering/cost limitations that drive designs like this. If Apple made the boards more modular, the computers would be thicker, more power hungry and more expensive. Is that a trade off you're willing to accept? For some people it is, and unfortunately Apple doesn't make computers for those people anymore.
By your own logic, you should go to school to learn about electronics and failure rates before claiming that Apple designs these machines to fail. Your lack of understanding of the issue (as well as the "lawyer" that filed the suit) is beyond sad. You DO realize that ALL notebooks consolidate a lot of functions into the logic/motherboard, correct?
Early 2011 best laptop I've bought
I've had 3-4 laptops starting in the early 2000s.
The first one was underpowered and within a year it was not worth using. The second one was an HP and, while it looked pretty, had high end features for the time (bluetooth, dvd burner etc), it became slow and started to crash within 2 years. That only got worse after I upgraded the memory.
Almost 2 years into my ownership of the macbook, not only do I use it everyday, but I rarely use the desktop at home anymore for anything other than printing or fixing a router issue. It's probably been on or sleeping for the entire time those two years and only rebooted a handful of times.
Coming from windows and never having owned a mac, I had initially installed bootcamp, but I think it's about time to remove it. Rarely use it. When I need windows, remote desktop is easier.
It just works...
I've had 3-4 laptops starting in the early 2000s.
The first one was underpowered and within a year it was not worth using. The second one was an HP and, while it looked pretty, had high end features for the time (bluetooth, dvd burner etc), it became slow and started to crash within 2 years. That only got worse after I upgraded the memory.
Almost 2 years into my ownership of the macbook, not only do I use it everyday, but I rarely use the desktop at home anymore for anything other than printing or fixing a router issue. It's probably been on or sleeping for the entire time those two years and only rebooted a handful of times.
Coming from windows and never having owned a mac, I had initially installed bootcamp, but I think it's about time to remove it. Rarely use it. When I need windows, remote desktop is easier.
It just works...
1/20 or about 5% is the normal electronics failure rate. Every hardware freak in the business will tell you that is just how it is. Factor it in or don't use that computer stuff.
Most electronics engineers only go for about a 3-5 year life expectancy. Sometimes more is no problem or when it comes to memory and harddrives they want more but for the chips themselves 3-5 years continuos use is about the goal. Many people with very old hardware often also just use it less.
The goal is fine because in the computer world stuff is severely outdated after that time frame anyway. Engineers don't want to wait forever to release new stuff and refine and perfect. Once they think it can run at a certain speed and last these amount of years it is released.
Apple, Asus, Lenovo or whoever aren't really at fault. They use all the same parts and there is only so much testing you can do in the factory and too much testing of ever single item just costs more than exchanging them later.
Parts are simply exchanged because nobody can find and fix logic boards anyway. Often times just switching out most of the hardware and checking if it works is much faster than exchanging one part, then test, exchange another, test, ... until the fault is found.
That can take forever. To the repair company a quick switch of the entire logic board saves so much man hours it pays for it. Apple & Co do need to pay their repairs during warranty so they do care.
IMO the only thing one can really complain about with Apple is the warranty periods. The hardware is so expensive 2 years should be standard minimum. Actually 3 years should be default and there should be options for 4 and 5 years like you get them in the business sector from Dell.
AppleCare imo is BS because most people just don't need telephone support they just don't want to pay for expensive repairs when necessary and unlike Dell you don't even get on site repair of technicians or replacements. Apple Care sucks if you cannot run to an Apple store because there is none in the vicinity.
This is the thing one can and should complain about.
3 year warranty should be standard.
5 year optional.
Nobody should have to pay for phone support that they don't need.
Most electronics engineers only go for about a 3-5 year life expectancy. Sometimes more is no problem or when it comes to memory and harddrives they want more but for the chips themselves 3-5 years continuos use is about the goal. Many people with very old hardware often also just use it less.
The goal is fine because in the computer world stuff is severely outdated after that time frame anyway. Engineers don't want to wait forever to release new stuff and refine and perfect. Once they think it can run at a certain speed and last these amount of years it is released.
Apple, Asus, Lenovo or whoever aren't really at fault. They use all the same parts and there is only so much testing you can do in the factory and too much testing of ever single item just costs more than exchanging them later.
Parts are simply exchanged because nobody can find and fix logic boards anyway. Often times just switching out most of the hardware and checking if it works is much faster than exchanging one part, then test, exchange another, test, ... until the fault is found.
That can take forever. To the repair company a quick switch of the entire logic board saves so much man hours it pays for it. Apple & Co do need to pay their repairs during warranty so they do care.
IMO the only thing one can really complain about with Apple is the warranty periods. The hardware is so expensive 2 years should be standard minimum. Actually 3 years should be default and there should be options for 4 and 5 years like you get them in the business sector from Dell.
AppleCare imo is BS because most people just don't need telephone support they just don't want to pay for expensive repairs when necessary and unlike Dell you don't even get on site repair of technicians or replacements. Apple Care sucks if you cannot run to an Apple store because there is none in the vicinity.
This is the thing one can and should complain about.
3 year warranty should be standard.
5 year optional.
Nobody should have to pay for phone support that they don't need.
X-box 360 had a 40 % failure rate
they didn't even acknowledged it till like 2-3 years down the line. I had 5 of them break on me with minimal game play. 2 I bought and the other 3 was them sending me different ones that gave a stupid red ring every time. I gave up on it and last time I touched a MS product.Look apple staff are usually really cool. If one tries to charge you for something just leave come back get a different "genius" and it's usually free.
I spilled gingerale on my comp and the 1st guy was going to charge me $100 bucks the 2nd guy just took the keys out and gave me new ones for free.
Not to mention half the people at the genius bar had White iMacs and macbooks. So they were all at least 3-4+ years old.
It sucks your having an issue with yours but they aren't made to fail. Half the reason people pay double for a Mac is they don't fail. How old is your Mac? My brother has a 5 year old iMac that just died on him but he left it on all the time and started adding ram and other 3rd party upgrades. Think his harddrive crashed or died.
