I have been complaining about the decline of macOS for several years now (I got my first MacBook Pro in 2010 and at the time I thought Snow Leopard was the bee’s knees). I exclusively used MacBooks for the last 12 years and little things here and there about the OS would piss me off and I thought “surely Apple has declined and there has to be something better?” Cut to a few weeks ago when I started a new job and got issued a Windows laptop. After about 8 seconds I gained back that same appreciation for MacBooks I had back in 2010. Everything about the Windows and the machine it inhabits is irritating and feels cheap. I still think that macOS has declined in quality since 2010, but the MacBook hardware is worlds better than their Windows counterparts. So you gotta take the good with the bad. I’d take a slightly buggy macOS on a rock solid platform over a more buggy WindowsOS on a garbage platform. Anyone who is complaining about the quality of macOS or MacBooks, I get you, I really do - but I suggest going to Best Buy and using any Windows machine for 2 minutes and then reevaluate how you feel.
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MacBooks Aren’t That Bad
- Thread starter DougiePhresh
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Totally subjective point of view that is undoubtely popular in a forum called MacRumors....
Personally I am a daily user of both MacOS and Windows devices, and I have a different view.
I overall prefer Windows to MacOS software wise, but I believe that since Apple Silicon Macs have much superior hardware to Windows devices, although the latter offer things that are not possible on Macs (cellular, pen input).
A couple of important details should be noted however.
- I don't have cheap Windows devices, but only high end ones (X1 Thinkpads, Surface Books, HP from the Elite line etc.), so not the typical $500 Windows crap many people buy.
- I probably know Windows better that the average users and than someone who is mainly a Mac user (I have been learning to use MacOS for the last 4-5 years, I probably know it better than the average users but still not as well as some pro users)
- People easy mix and confuse software and hardware, I think it's important to distinguish that.
- I need to run Windows only software, so on Macs I am often obliged to run Parallels too.
- While I prefer Windows overall, MacOS does several things better than Windows (but Windows does even more things better than MacOS IMO). How important each thing is to each person is subjective and can determine their preference.
Personally I am a daily user of both MacOS and Windows devices, and I have a different view.
I overall prefer Windows to MacOS software wise, but I believe that since Apple Silicon Macs have much superior hardware to Windows devices, although the latter offer things that are not possible on Macs (cellular, pen input).
A couple of important details should be noted however.
- I don't have cheap Windows devices, but only high end ones (X1 Thinkpads, Surface Books, HP from the Elite line etc.), so not the typical $500 Windows crap many people buy.
- I probably know Windows better that the average users and than someone who is mainly a Mac user (I have been learning to use MacOS for the last 4-5 years, I probably know it better than the average users but still not as well as some pro users)
- People easy mix and confuse software and hardware, I think it's important to distinguish that.
- I need to run Windows only software, so on Macs I am often obliged to run Parallels too.
- While I prefer Windows overall, MacOS does several things better than Windows (but Windows does even more things better than MacOS IMO). How important each thing is to each person is subjective and can determine their preference.
Same here. I use both daily (and have done for many years); completely happy with either of them to be honest although I prefer the interface on Windows 10 now over OsX. Love my M1 Max though, no buyer regret.
I spent thirty years of my working life using Windows computers. I cannot say that I ever really liked them. I tolerated them. Then I retired twelve years ago and made the switch to the Apple world. I love my Macs and what I can do with them, and have never regretted switching. The M1 16” Macbook Pro is by far the most pleasurable computer that I have ever owned.
As a Switcher I suggest bookmarking the site Roaring Apps.com top see if the software you want is compatible!
Also a lot of smaller apps are not there at all. None the Windows software I need Parallels for is listed there
I have found that usually an Intel Windows laptop that is the same price as an Intel Mac laptop is usually very similar quality and they both work well. Of course, comparing a $500 Intel Windows laptop to a $2000 Intel Mac laptop then that is different, but no one compares those since it makes absolutely no sense, right?
For example, in 2016 I bought a really nice 13.3" HP Spectre x360 and the quality was right up there with the closest Macbook at the time. I don't recall the exact price, but maybe about $1400-1500. I still have it and it is still great with zero problems. Quality look and feel. Runs Win10.
Apple Silicon though changes the calculation.
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As mentioned this is a really subjective perspective. My Razer Blade 15 is every bit as premium as my MBP, it has more options, and features then the MBP has, i.e., ports, PCs have better connectivity to a wider variety of hardware, and windows has a greater inventory of applications.
I'm not saying windows is better, I love my MBP, but dismissing windows as a platform so quickly and superficially does everyone a disservice. One size does not fit all, and for many people Windows machines do not fit their needs, and vice versa with macs.
That's probably the worst piece of advice, simply because those machines tend to be the most abused and least likely to give you a good experience. Plus working on one platform for 12 years and going to BB for 2 minutes will fail to give you the needed research to make an educated decision. Learning or relearning a platform after using a different platform requires more time then 2 minutes.
"Aren't that bad!"
Wondow$, Mac, Linux, it's all crap!!!
No really, what we want is the software library of Windows, the GUI and UI of the macOS, and the versatility of Linux.
Wondow$, Mac, Linux, it's all crap!!!
No really, what we want is the software library of Windows, the GUI and UI of the macOS, and the versatility of Linux.
I feel Windows has come a really long way. I only use it through Parallels these days, but aesthetically I like it. Of course cannot speak to how reliable it is, etc., compared to MacOS, though I feel MacOS has gotten worse in that respect in recent years.
friends who have to work on Windows at work all hate it, but I wonder how much of that is due to running proprietary company apps that are ill constructed.
friends who have to work on Windows at work all hate it, but I wonder how much of that is due to running proprietary company apps that are ill constructed.
I feel you, OP. I was staunchly anti-Apple up through Windows 7, which I still believe is the best, most stable OS Microsoft ever released. I didn't like the looks of what was coming when I ran Windows 8 in beta, I had just had a second RRoD on my Xbox 360, and I already owned an iPhone and iPad at that point. I decided to go full blown Apple everything from that point on and haven't looked back.
My son has a pretty nice desktop Windows PC and 4K monitor setup that he mostly uses for gaming. I have used it a few times to help him figure things out or just poke around in Windows 10 and see what's changed, and it just doesn't really make sense to me anymore as a UI in general. Navigating the system feels slow and cheap, even on a computer that can more than handle the OS. Iconography is still as ugly as ever, and it's still bogged down by years and years of old design language going back to Windows 95. The deeper into the OS you click, the more it looks like the 90s.
To its credit, my son's PC is VERY powerful and capable of running modern games with no problems at all. And in the grand scheme of things, the steps you take to launch a game aren't really important as long as the game you want to play looks/runs well. But if I were somehow forced to live and work in Windows as my every day environment again, I would 100% hate it.
My son has a pretty nice desktop Windows PC and 4K monitor setup that he mostly uses for gaming. I have used it a few times to help him figure things out or just poke around in Windows 10 and see what's changed, and it just doesn't really make sense to me anymore as a UI in general. Navigating the system feels slow and cheap, even on a computer that can more than handle the OS. Iconography is still as ugly as ever, and it's still bogged down by years and years of old design language going back to Windows 95. The deeper into the OS you click, the more it looks like the 90s.
To its credit, my son's PC is VERY powerful and capable of running modern games with no problems at all. And in the grand scheme of things, the steps you take to launch a game aren't really important as long as the game you want to play looks/runs well. But if I were somehow forced to live and work in Windows as my every day environment again, I would 100% hate it.
Basically it comes down to Windows sucking worse than macOS. Both could be way better. the macOS is pretty good over all, but all the darn bugs in the last few years has tainted it quite a bit. I started out with an Apple II+ then went to a Mac SE and used Macs well into the 1990s when Apple nearly went under and was producing garbage. Most of my jobs in the high tech industry required Windows for work, and that sucked. After retiring I saw that Apple had regrouped and reinvented itself and was doing much better so I went back to Macs. But over the past few years the quality of code and hardware seems to have taken hits. I hope they get their greed in check and start addressing the huge number of bugs they have managed to compile...
I personally prefer Windows on the desktop, if for no other reason than proper sub pixel antialiasing, which has been missing from macOS since Mojave.
Plus I can get a fanless Windows machine that does everything I need for less than $300 CAD. I need to go up to $830 to get the same from a Mac.
Plus I can get a fanless Windows machine that does everything I need for less than $300 CAD. I need to go up to $830 to get the same from a Mac.
It's all been in decline ever since 3.2/4.1. Also, that whole "color" thing is just an over-hyped fad.
I have used mac’s since windows vista, very happy I quit the windows world then. In fact I told the new company I will get what I need to do my job using Apple products and have absolutely zero need for a company issued crap box windows device. Tried using a surface pro 5 with windows 11 on it and it was so horrible it made me want to vomit using the windows environment when I can do what I need to with Apple products. I hope I never have to go back into the windows ecosystem again.
What Windows laptop did they give you?
In my view, pretty much anything offered at Worst Buy that runs Windows is complete junk, but a businessy Windows laptop is not bad (and the tech support/warranty/service is miles better than what you can get from Apple, at least if you aren't eligible for AppleCare for Enterprise or whatever it's called). Lenovo T series tend to be good, but a T14s G2 with 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, mid-level i5, etc will run you $2000CAD, plus the warranty upgrade, plus the docking station. Certainly Apple-level money at that point. (And if someone asks why not just buy a MacBook at that point, I would say two things - the service, along with inertia - business IT has everything set up for Active Directory and the like and no one really wants to spend the effort to rethink everything around Mac endpoints)
The other thing I should note is that businessy Windows laptops have been trending in the wrong direction the past few years - built-in batteries (but without Apple's well-advertised replacement programs), soldered RAM (I think Lenovo has basically gone all-soldered on the current T series), abandoning old-fashioned docking stations that IT folks love in favour of USB-C, etc. More and more Apple-like in the wrong way...
As a software and data analysis guy, Windows has come a long way since the days of XP in terms of actual useable shell support (ANSI/xterm-256 color support, WSL, etc.) it’s still pulling teeth compared to macOS or Linux. I’ve set up multiple Windows instances (VMs and real hardware) for testing recently, and it’s been an incredible pain to find a terminal app that is configurable, looks okay, and isn’t bafflingly slow.
The best setup I found so far with the least compromises is Alacritty with msys2 as the underlying shell, but holy heck was it difficult to set up. No GUI preferences so you have to edit a poorly-documented YAML until things look/work right, and no scroll bar support (???) which is a pain with long scroll back histories (especially with a regular mouse scroll wheel).
On macOS and Linux, you get a proper no-compromise UNIX shell right out of the box, with no shortage of fast, pretty, and easily-configured 3rd party alternatives if you want something more (e.g. iTerm).
I also find Windows’ window management baffling and antagonistic (e.g. foregrounding all the windows of an app if you just click one of them, not being able to switch back to an app in a different space by clicking it in the taskbar), but I think that’s more a matter of habit and personal preference than anything else.
The best setup I found so far with the least compromises is Alacritty with msys2 as the underlying shell, but holy heck was it difficult to set up. No GUI preferences so you have to edit a poorly-documented YAML until things look/work right, and no scroll bar support (???) which is a pain with long scroll back histories (especially with a regular mouse scroll wheel).
On macOS and Linux, you get a proper no-compromise UNIX shell right out of the box, with no shortage of fast, pretty, and easily-configured 3rd party alternatives if you want something more (e.g. iTerm).
I also find Windows’ window management baffling and antagonistic (e.g. foregrounding all the windows of an app if you just click one of them, not being able to switch back to an app in a different space by clicking it in the taskbar), but I think that’s more a matter of habit and personal preference than anything else.
The new terminal app on Windows is decent and it gets improving quickly. And if you don't like it, just install Ubuntu in WSL and get whatever Linux options you prefer.
Everything is a science and so is human-machine interface design. We know Windows is garbage, because only Windows users claim, it's all only personal preference and there are no facts and there is no objective truth.No he is right, its not subjective. Windows sucks
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It's been 2-3 months since I set up my latest test machine, but I remember Windows Terminal having some weird defaults and not being configurable enough to avoid some of them (e.g. I don't think msys2 worked with it, only CMD.exe, WSL, and powershell), and also being surprisingly slow (talking 2-3 seconds to load a prompt when Alacritty does it in ~0.5, weird lag after sending commands, etc).
As for WSL, I'm sure it works fine for a lot of people's use cases but I find it's poorly integrated with the rest of the system (e.g. has its own separate home folder) and also isn't helpful when you want to run *Windows stuff* in a non-awful terminal. If I'm trying to test whether a CLI or script-based software I'm developing works properly under Windows (my main use case), WSL is a non-starter. Thankfully msys2 provides almost exactly what I need (i.e. a sane UNIX-like terminal and toolset that can still do everything CMD.exe can), but setting everything up and finding/configuring a decent terminal for it is still a mess.
Just a small thing, but don’t expect Linux and Mac to have complete like for like with everything. A good example is sed.