I was thinking of picking one up so went to try it at Best Buy, but that keyboard is TERRIBLE and the trackpad is tiny so it was a really poor laptop experience compared to pretty much any premium ultrabook or even the SP4 type cover.
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MacBook's competition?
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I was thinking of picking one up so went to try it at Best Buy, but that keyboard is TERRIBLE and the trackpad is tiny so it was a really poor laptop experience compared to pretty much any premium ultrabook or even the SP4 type cover.
SteveJUAE
macrumors 601
KB's are very subjective many do not like the rMB and the SP4 I find is nicer than my rMB but no deal breaker IMO but thanks for your opinion .As always there are compromises to be made between many devices sorting out your own personal preferences is what counts 🙂
So said the article I read.
Also it's a 13.3" screen, making the laptop substantially larger than the retina MB. Comparable to the rMBP13 and MBA13, not the rMB
Queen6
macrumors G5
Samsung`s new 12" Galaxy Tab Pro is 2160x1440, I have seen it personally in Hong Kong, this is a W10 tablet that does not disappoint. Very nice build quality, display is superb, although not colour accurate as is a AMOLED. Had they stocked the 256 version I would have definitely picked one up, as another aspect is that the battery life is substantial for such a minimalistic device. If I had to nitpick not having a backlit keyboard is a negative.
Think like a high end Android or Apple tablet, super thin & light, top build quality, only the one runs a full desktop OS, with very attractive pricing.
Q-6
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True, personally I very much prefer 12" rMB keyboard over my other Mac portables, I can type faster with greater accuracy. I found the Samsung 12" Galaxy Tab Pro keyboard very similar, track pad is mediocre, equally when I work in the Windows environment I find the a Mouse is far more productive than any trackpad, further still, I use Swiftpoint GT which is a fantastic alternative to the traditional mouse, being fully compatible with OS X,Window Android etc.
Am hoping that the upcoming Retina MacBook Pro, drops the current spongy keyboard, I know some don't care for the rMB keyboard, equally once you fully adjust to the new keyboard it`s easier on so many levels. I as a function of my profession I write significant technical reports, here now in Vietnam I am working on my 2105 1.2 rMB, as the KB is most definitely a factor, over my 13" & 15" rMBP`s
Q-6
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I'm writing this on a new Lenovo Yoga 3 Pro while my rmb is charging. The Y3P is as thin as my base 2015 rmb, virtually almost as light, is a 360 degree yoga 13.3 screen, so can easily be used as a tablet, has a TOUCH screen equal to the retina, great back lit keyboard, perfectly fine trackpad (I like the keyboard and track pad better than my rmb) and really nice construction. For 2016 its been replaced by the lenovo 900. As a result I paid $750 for what had been a $1600 laptop when introduced. Oh, it has many ports than the rmb, but the rmb has a bit better battery life. It uses Windows 10, which is very easy to learn. As a longtime Apple guy, I really like this.
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Queen6
macrumors G5
Have looked at your model and the Yoga 900, pity they don't have an active digitiser for pen input, or I would be writing this on a Yoga 900 🙂 I own 1.2 rMB and very much like it, equally it`s a design statement as much as anything else. The Yoga is a far more versatile and flexible device no pun intended.
Sadly Apple has become completely predictable, next Gen rMBP will very likely just be a scaled up rMB plus or minus a few ports depending on your perspective. This will very much fit with the "new" Apple, "same ideas" repackaged in different sized chassis, with a sprinkle of added "amazing" equally lacklustre and nothing really new, yep making stuff ever smaller, not improving performance or adding features/utility etc. I don't find terribly exciting. Was a time when I had no issue with Apple`s pricing as I always believed that they delivered the very best, no so much these days, with much of the product line being mediocre.
Interesting on the battery life, my own rMB holds up well, however longer runtimes are always desirable, either ways am waiting on WWDC to see what Apple delivers, as I plan to retire two Retina Macbook Pro`s this year and am looking for a consolidated replacement. Am also waiting to see the pen for the 12" Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro once it`s out think I will pick up one if I can source a 256 as I prefer the Samsung over the surface (M3 model only)
Agree there are definitely aspects of W10 that are better than OS X, equally there are aspects that are not. I have one W10 system just to trial software and see if the W10 environment can work for me professionally, so far so good. Microsoft has certainly done a superb good job of optimising the OS to run on low level hardware. Something Apple should think on with OS X becoming ever more bloated to the point that an SSD is almost mandatory...
Q-6
You say they are not the best, even mediocre, yet fail to give any examples of Windows laptops that are as good as the rMB. The closest I'm seeing is the Samsung tabpro s which, looking at that keyboard and trackpad, would not come close to the usability of the MacBook as a laptop.
Queen6
macrumors G5
And your use case is the same as mine? There is plethora of alternative devices available on the market, from 12" Quad Core Tablets, M3 powered ultrabooks/tablets to desktop replacements, for the most part Apple is just churning out the same old, same old in different form factors. rMB update was underwhelming, like as not will be the 2016 rMBP as all we the user will gain is thinner & lighter, no additional features or utility, just a basic clamshell notebook at a high a possible price point as Apple can get the market to bear...
Q-6
zhenya
macrumors 604
I dunno, I think the Macbook was not really intended to be revolutionary, but rather the laptop, distilled to its most important elements, built to a high standard, and made as compact as possible. There are actually extraordinarily few other machines like it on the market.
They looked at all the things that are most important in a super portable laptop, and perfected them to the best of their ability. Excellent screen, in a good aspect ratio, with comparatively minimal bezels. Fantastic touchpad (with twice as much - or more - usable area as most others in this size class). Excellent keyboard with full sized keys and good feedback. Excellent battery life. All of this in the minimal amount of volume.
The end result is, IMO, a better device than most of the 'revolutionary' devices that try to compete with it. Sometimes refining a design that already is known to work well is a better option than trying to do something different for the sake of being different. The latter feels kind of like where the PC market is at right now - and as a result - the best PC laptop at the moment, again, IMO, is the Dell XPS. A traditional form factor, refined to the best product it can be with current technology.
They looked at all the things that are most important in a super portable laptop, and perfected them to the best of their ability. Excellent screen, in a good aspect ratio, with comparatively minimal bezels. Fantastic touchpad (with twice as much - or more - usable area as most others in this size class). Excellent keyboard with full sized keys and good feedback. Excellent battery life. All of this in the minimal amount of volume.
The end result is, IMO, a better device than most of the 'revolutionary' devices that try to compete with it. Sometimes refining a design that already is known to work well is a better option than trying to do something different for the sake of being different. The latter feels kind of like where the PC market is at right now - and as a result - the best PC laptop at the moment, again, IMO, is the Dell XPS. A traditional form factor, refined to the best product it can be with current technology.
Yes, it should have had a digital pen because its so light for tablet use. but you can use any standard stylo. I also have a lenovo Yoga 12.5 that has the pen built in and works well for note taking, and art. It's brand new but I plan to sell it. Any interest?
SteveJUAE
macrumors 601
I was afraid of this. We were talking about competition/alternatives not an exact replica in windows format.
(IE your criteria was slim, lightweight, screen and battery life)
You will not find an exact clone simply as in the Windows world no one really exists now (eg Sony) who wishes to produce a laptop at that price point. The rMB is a niche minimalist expensive device in a very small footprint. I have 2 of them running exclusively Win10 🙂
As we have noted before the Tab 2 Pro is probably the nearest footprint wise with similar specs with some compromises but also some gains especially as you would need a rMB and an IPP to cover similar functionality even if your preference in KB and trackpad is the rMB but probably less on the IPP compared to the Tab 2 Pro etc etc
We would be here all day arguing over the minutia, pick what is important to you is what counts at the price that seems reasonable
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No one should disagree with you what the rMB is all about 🙂 however 6-8 years iterations on the MBA is what we expect on the rMB, then no thank you.
Well, at this very moment, the Spectre is pitching a resolution in between the rMB and the MBA (1920x1080 vs 2304xsomething/1280x768), with the "thin-ness" of the rMB and the screen size of the MBA 13, with the performance of an rMBP.
So basically, they made a laptop that addressed virtually all the things people on this forum complain about with respect to every one of those computers😛
So you're right, it's not really like the rMB in terms of screen size, but the OP didn't ask for something with the same screen size, OP asked for something "thin, light, similar screen resolution, 10 hour battery." The Spectre is thin, light, closer to the rMB in screen resolution than the aging MBA, with a 10 hour battery.
Still not happy, how about this one:
https://www.asus.com/us/Notebooks/ASUS-ZenBook-UX305FA/
That is thin, light, has a resolution [higher] than the rMB and 10 hrs of battery life.
My criteria - long battery life, with high screen resolution and compact, light size. They are key ingredients. As long as apple pushes forward in those areas, then I am happy.
That's the kind of thing I am looking for, thanks. It looks like the 2016 model is the UX305CA? Even though it's bigger, 1.2kg isn't too bad.
11.04 x 7.74 x 0.52 x 2.03lb vs 12.8 x 8.9 x 0.5 x 2.6lb
Nearly two inches wider, nearly two inches deeper, and nearly ten ounces heavier.
That's the size of a 13" Macbook Air.
I'm sure the Asus is a nice enough computer for a 13-14" class system, but it's not comparable to retina Macbook in terms of portability and size. Completely different class of system as anyone who's used one can attest to; something not apparent to those who are just looking at web pages of specs.
I had an XPS13 for work and it was an absolute catastrophe quality-wise. The screen had massive light bleeding, the touchpad started rattling after a few week's use etc. And the worst: Dell claimed that all of this is within specs and flat out refused to repair it.
I recently bought a Surface Pro 4 - if battery life weren't so absolutely lousy (yesterday the battery died just before lunch, after roughly 4 hours of light work, mainly just MS Word - half of the battery got killed in sleep mode...) I'd really recommend that one as I have come to the conclusion that this one blows the Macbook out of the water in a variety of points. It's really the first Windows laptop that I prefer over a Mac. But with that battery performance, I'll likely go back to the Macbook, even though I pretty much hated everything (keyboard, WiFi issues, only one port etc.) about it. But at least it got me through a day of work without a problem.
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I already installed it and it hasn't fix the issue. Neither for me, nor for a lot of other people judging by the responses on the Microsoft product forums. I never used mine without the fix as I only got the SP4 three days ago.
It rebooted several times when installing the updates, I've since tried rebooting and re-checking for updates several times. That said, it does list a whole bunch of failed updates. But as I said, update doesn't show any new ones - I'm guessing the failed ones were taken care in a cumulative patch
where is it
macrumors 6502
Your quote there sums up living in the Windows mobile world.
Sleep in Windows is rubbish and shouldn't be called sleep as it uses too much battery power. You are meant to use Hibernate. Which saves the battery like a Mac's sleep. But then you have to wait for it to start up again. Very strange.
Windows should be confined to the office desktop really. It just doesn't work well on laptops. Unless all Windows laptop users are unproductive?
Windows is such a mood hoover. You spend weeks getting it set the way you like it with everything working smoothly. Then BANG! - A windows update gets installed right under your nose. You restart and almost immediately things start to slow down, things you thought you set become unset. The misery begins again.
Anyway. Yes if you want a quality, productive experience. Then use your Macbook, or any Mac laptop really. They just work.
I would have wholeheartedly agreed with you until the Macbook came along. It's just one of the products Apple threw on the market over the last year or so that are, well, not Apple-like. It's not 100% thought through. It's too slow for any kind of serious work, the keyboard sucks and the single port is a joke. Great software, hardware not ok. The other products fitting in this category would be the Apple Watch (lousy experience overall), and the iPad Pro (seriously stunning hardware, lousy, limiting software that messes up the experience). So In this respect, Apple is rapidly approaching Windows levels. I guess this is Apple post-Jobs.
At least Microsoft has been innovating - the SP4 is a fantastic device. The sleep issue is literally the only problem I have with it. I guess I'll switch it to hibernation mode.
But you're right: Windows is not made for laptops. Year after year after year they've missed the chance to finally optimize the OS for mobile use, but they've failed miserably. Battery life has always been bad, sleep issues, bad touchpad drivers. The latter isn't an issue on the SP4 because it has a trouchscreen and because the touchpad is actually the best one that's ever existed on Windows (which isn't saying much, unfortunately :-/
zhenya
macrumors 604
I would be careful with the SP. My SP3's battery died completely at 14 months (120 cycles) and Microsoft would do nothing for me. I couldn't even get to a layer of phone support that could even help me in any way. After a week of trying I could never get past their front line support that just promised a 'call or email from a senior technician' that never came. I finally made the 150 mile round trip drive to their nearest store where I took the least-worst option offered to me; $450 for a refurbished device with 90 days warranty and no option to extend it.
I did this because overall it's a pretty decent laptop - thin and light, great screen, the 4th gen typecover I have with fingerprint reader is pretty darn good (except that reader fails to register about 20% of the time) and the trackpad is good for Windows, but miserable compared to my Macbook's. Still, I have zero confidence in Microsoft's ability to service these in the way I need for a business class machine.
Where do you live, if I may ask? My wife had some hardware issues with her SP3 last year and Microsoft support for Europe was excellent. She called, they had the device picked up here and my wife got a new one in less than a week.
zhenya
macrumors 604
In the US. Tech support calls all go to India where they speak good English and say all the right things, but can't actually do anything to help you. In theory they should have offered to have me ship my device back and me buy a replacement, but they never actually could get to the point where they could tell me how to make that happen. I tried to insist on an advanced exchange, guaranteed by a credit card, so I would not be without a machine for who knows how long (and their phone support had me really wondering if I sent it in if I'd ever see anything back from them) but they absolutely refused to do that. Not a way to service a business customer!!