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Hugh said:
I have a suggestion for any one who think this is a bad thing, I suggest you watch the Keynote if you can and you will understand the switch.

At first I thought it was a bad thing, but now as I think about it as a programmer this is a great thing. I think we will now start to see great things to come.

Just because you will have a PPC Mac when Apple starts shipping Intel, doesn't mean you will not be able to run that day's software. It looks like Apple is going to push and support a 'fat' type of program. A program that will run on both. Just like they did with the 68k stuff (68k and PowerPC code in the same program where called 'FAT').

As a programmer I think this is going to make things easier to program on the Mac then it is now thus more programs for the Mac.

-Hugh

You hit the nail on the head. Everyone should watch the keynote. There are a lot of things you don't pick up on reading a press release or snippets of info from someone's live coverage blog. This is the best Apple related news I've heard in years. As soon as the suckers drive the price down (though its barely budged so far) I will be buying a bunch of AAPL stock. I'm also going to buy a Mac mini with the next revision assuming that it's before the Intel switch. No worries. Do you really think Apple will drop support for the PowerPC version of OS X as soon as the switch to Intel is complete? Rubbish! They know the installed base will still be mostly PowerPC at that point and they make a lot of money off software upgrades. Just look at sales of Tiger. Buy a Mac now and you'll be using the latest version of OS X come 2010. After that you'll be itching to upgrade anyway. This is good news people. Great news if I may be so bold.
 
PCM said:
OK...after reading a couple pages...still haven't found a definitive answer to my quandery...(forgive me as i'm not too knowledgable about this sort of thing)

I'm taking delivery this week of a dual 2.5 g5, mostly for audio production, but also for graphics (illustrator, flash etc.).

What does this announcement mean for the future of this g5, specifically for software optimization? WIll companies (like digidesign) even bother to optimize for the PPC architecture when they know this massive shift is coming starting next year? Should I cancel this order and just build a damn AMD machine and keep my powerbook for daily tasks???

I'm VERY worried about this shift (although I think ultimately it's good), because the plans and upgrade paths for current g5 users look VERY ambiguous.

Dude, get out while you still can. At very least the 2.5ghz G5 prices will drop over the next week or so.
 
eVolcre said:
Does he want to be relegated to a niche market who think their MACS are a way of life or does he want to hit up a new market to truly make their new MACS a way of life by integrating their machines with their IPODS, their Cell phones, their TIVO, their movies ....
Ah, yes. TiVo and movies. I was hoping for some kind of hint at this today. To no avail. No 2 button scroll mouse either :(
 
PCM said:
OK...after reading a couple pages...still haven't found a definitive answer to my quandery...(forgive me as i'm not too knowledgable about this sort of thing)

I'm taking delivery this week of a dual 2.5 g5, mostly for audio production, but also for graphics (illustrator, flash etc.).

What does this announcement mean for the future of this g5, specifically for software optimization? WIll companies (like digidesign) even bother to optimize for the PPC architecture when they know this massive shift is coming starting next year? Should I cancel this order and just build a damn AMD machine and keep my powerbook for daily tasks???

I'm VERY worried about this shift (although I think ultimately it's good), because the plans and upgrade paths for current g5 users look VERY ambiguous.

Keep in mind the installed user base with ppc machines. developers won't just abandon them right away.
 
Rosetta, baby!

Ideally, IBM would have met the challenge and the secret double life of Apple would've been moot. They didn't. Apple has to move forward.

Certainly this is not ideal, but with every upgrade in power that Intel enjoys (and the world starts using) the further and further Apple lags behind due to IBM's inability to get it's act together. Apple has waited (very patiently, I might add) for IBM to produce the types of chips that would compete with Intel for 5 long years. IBM just hasn't been able to. Apple has no other choice but to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to bring the Apple computer a better end product.

"Rosetta" sounds wonderful and will help the transition immensly... this way, users won't have to worry about their existing software working. Will it be as good as software compiled specifically for the new IntelMacs? No. But it'll be running on faster Macs using the new chip so, I believe that performance will still be as good as people are experiencing now on current Macs and will only be better once they've upgraded to software written specifically for the new chip.

Jobs also discussed a new technology called Rosetta, that he described as "a dynamic binary translator." "It runs existing PowerPC applications on the Intel platform", he said. Jobs described Rosetta as “lightweight,” and said "it’s nothing like Classic." - Macworld.com

I'll stop here for a second to clarify something that I didn't understand when I first read this on macworld.com. Since then, I've seen the Keynote and know what Steve was really saying here. Number #1, Steve's description of "Lightweight" is in the context of not being CODE-INTENSIVE or something that has to be started up like Classic, currently. I thought at first that it meant that it "lightweight" as in "not as good." This just isn't the case...

It works in the background and is something that the end-user is not even aware of. It's not bloated from a RAM standpoint: it's "lightweight". Classic is a bit cumbersome at times. It's RAM-intensive.

Jobs demonstrated Rosetta by running Microsoft Office applications, Quicken and Photoshop CS 2 — all unmodified PowerPC-binary versions, unlike Mathematica — on the new Intel-based hardware.

“So that is Rosetta, Jobs concluded. “These PowerPC apps just run. And that’s what we’re going to have for our users, because every app isn’t going to be there for our users on day one.” - Macworld.com


I saw the Keynote. The PowerPC apps ran great. I don't really forsee some huge deal. In most cases, for those companies creating their apps already with Xcode, this is going to be a breeze.

What I don't like is how (1) this will affect Mac sales. Obviously people "in the know" will wait. I know I am now, unless I come across and extremely good deal. (2) "Think Different" is going to be used by ******s as a punchline for all types of "we-told-you-so" people. (3) Stock... how will this affect Apple with the leary folks. Hopefully, people wll just behind Apple and say "well, they've got to do something." It's obvious that Apple is superior in Hardware design and Software design. Now with an even playing field with processors, there's no telling what Apple might do.

What I love (completely) is that OS X Leopard will be out about the same time as MS Longhorn. Tiger's great (some bugs, but great) -- but what will Leopard be like? Talk about throwing an even bigger monkey wrench into Microsoft's plans.

All in all, I am glad. We need faster PowerBooks and Towers. This will only help the Mac Community.

Lastly, this isn't a "Move to the Dark Side". Macs will be very difficult for all but the most sauvy to every run Windows on. And Mac can make damn sure that its OS won't be able to run on anything other than a Mac. Those that are trying to drum up some sort of "Jobs is the Anti-Christ" can just stop it right now. The rest of us are not buying it. I've never seen "Newbie" more on this Forum than in the last few days. Stop trying to cause trouble and go peddle your Troll Stew somewhere else.
 
Cheaper?

iMeowbot said:
That radiator thingy in the dual G5s isn't free, and apparently the G5 couldn't be put into a practical notebook at any cost. And that's where they have the best bet of saving money, is in the infrastructure supporting those chips.
That makes sense but Glaskowsky was suggesting that IBM's chips were probably half the price of Intel chips. That's a big difference, especially when you look at the price of the top-o-the-line chips from Intel. Aren't some of them up around US$1000?

i_b_joshua
 
bosrs1 said:
For every one doomsayer there are 5 people who are seriously considering the Mac now.

I AGREE...THE BEST OS IN THE WORLD ON THE BEST CPU's AVAILABLE IN THE WORLD...CAN'T LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
 
I just think it's sad that the only two choices most people will have now as far as processors go is either Intel or AMD.

It's sad that Apple/IBM will not be keeping a third viable option alive. I think variety tends to make for a more fruitful world.

Now if Intel or AMD can't do something technologically down the road, we're all stuck and Apple has no ability to pull ahead.
 
fgdn17 said:
I AGREE...THE BEST OS IN THE WORLD ON THE BEST CPU's AVAILABLE IN THE WORLD...CAN'T LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)


So funny how the tides have changed. Last week the PPC was the best cpu in the world. Now to go with the apple flow intel is the best. Geez its sickning.
 
This is very good news (for me as a student)

the powerbooks and ibooks will drop in price (i think), and all the software i buy now, i can use later :D

for all those snobs out there,that feel that their just bought powerbook or ibook is going to be dated, please send them to me! and wait for your highly anticipated appletel book! :D
powermacs and imacs G5 are also welcome

oh and please don't forget to whine, 'how long it takes', 'how dated it is' of 'what apple should be doing' blehbleh...

a mac is a mac is a mac, and you should use it...not complain about it
 
MacTruck said:
Apple has gone through sooooo many architecture changes that my head is spinning and once again here is another one.
Three in twenty plus years is "sooooo many?" Compared to what? Every platform and OS goes through changes and revisions. Apple's just seem to be more major yet less frequent. Wintels seem to be more minor yet much more frequent.

MacTruck said:
Powerbook:
Brand new top of the line bought 2 months ago, obsolete.

Is OSx better than windows? You betcha. Is windows more reliable for long term investment? You better believe it.
Why is your PowerBook obsolete? I am using a five year old PowerBook Pismo right now. This Mac is my main computer. I do everything on this baby. It has had no problems in five years! And it runs OS X perfectly.

I am not sure about Windows being a more reliable long term investment either. We will all have to see about that whenever Longhorn actually comes out. How far along is Longhorn?
 
So the newer versions of OS X will still work on PPC processors? That's good news to me. I don't know why I was panicking over that, since I know that Apple will manage this switch very well...
 
Not so fast...

eVolcre said:
You're welcome. I think I've given up on this thread. People just don't seem to get it and we're hearing the same **** go on and on and on.

I can write a business case on why this is a good move and I might end up doing that if a mature site would carry it. Lets face it - the high end systems - you're a niche market. A minority. Leave the APPLE world. You're irrelevent. The Mac zealots, same thing. Leave. You're too small for me to care. People interested in fancy shamncy RISC interfaces or the superiority of a PPC chip as opposed to a x86, same thing ... LEAVE.

Business wise APPLE has to evolve. You cannot target the same "innovator" m arket because they are impossible to please. WHat's the next market to target? The joe blow users. The people who want sey and stylish laptops. Those who want OSX.

The laptop is the wave of the future. If you don't like the APPLE Desktops. Leave. Not a big deal. If you like good design, a good OS and are more of a mainstream user who doesn't give a **** about the techie details that mayu result in a .00001% increase in RISC/CISC/GPU/YZ/123#/ABC ... then stay. It's going to be a fun ride.

Again --- you cannot succeed by targetting a niche. Apple has made the next quantum jump in it's transition or goal to be a mainstream company - and this is it. MS won the OFFICE productivity 'war' (to please the empire group ... ), the next area of growth is in media, in style, in integrating your home computer seamlessly as a life style device - and APPLE is it! This is the future.

As a businessman, I don't mind alienating upto 50% of my current die hard, UNPROFITABLE base who I can never keep happy. If I can gain even 2% of the larger market, I make more money. Simple cost benefit analysis people.

I agree that this should be discussed as a business issue. I'm just not so sure that this is good business. Only time will tell. What I do know is that most of your generalizations are completely nonsensical.

For example: you CAN succeed by targetting a niche market. Look at BMW, Harley-Davidson, and any number of other companies. Lots of companies (in fact probably most comparies) target niche markets. Only a few companies try to sell to everyone. And only a percentage of THOSE companies succeed. Few businesses can afford to alieante 50% of their base. If their base is small and they can gain "even 2% of the larger market," perhaps it is worth trying. But who says they can gain 2%. And who says they won't lose that 2% the next time around. People in marketing departments (i.e. "businessmen") spend a lot of time thinking about brand loyalty, you know.
 
uncle_sam_ie said:
We'll see. I betting Mac sales take a dive over the next twelve months

It's a near certainty. The future looks very sweet for the refurb buyer during the next year. I wouldn't even think of buying a new Mac for the next 18 months unless it's heavily discounted. Let's face it: Our PPC-based machines are now expensive curiosities destined as footnotes in the history of home computing. Maybe we'll be able to sell them to collectors someday.

No sense paying a premium for something that is no longer a premium product...by Steve's own admission.
 
MacTruck said:
Dude, get out while you still can. At very least the 2.5ghz G5 prices will drop over the next week or so.

Can I ask you a question? Why are you even reading this thread anymore? You've made up your mind. There is not much value you're adding at this point. Most of your points are at best absurd that have been shot down very well and at worst troll like.

Shouldn't you be hanging out at PCrumors.com or some other equivalent?

You're not willing to open up your mind and listen to reason. You've got your set opinions .. nothing wrong with that .. and have made a flash decision in one day. You also seem to know better than Steve Jobs and are double guessing his decision.

You should either leave this thread or .. as an alternative ... since you seem to be brilliant , brush up your resume and go be a CEO somewhere. start up your own company. Why waste time here?

:rolleyes:
 
LaMerVipere said:
I just think it's sad that the only two choices most people will have now as far as processors go is either Intel or AMD.

It's sad that Apple/IBM will not be keeping a third viable option alive. I think variety tends to make for a more fruitful world.

Now if Intel or AMD can't do something technologically down the road, we're all stuck and Apple has no ability to pull ahead.

Well the bright side is that if Intel or AMD can't do anything down the road, the entire personal computer world is stuck, cause MS really can't switch to anything else either.
 
My two cents (or pence if you're local...)

Well who needs soap operas when you've got Apple... :D

Damn this crazy Apple world has been exciting since I joined!

Basically, I can only see this as a good thing. If we look into the future, the first Mintel's (what are we gonna call 'em?) running Leopard are meant to be in place just as Longoverdue comes out, which is already copying the Spotlight function of Tiger... If Apple push Leopard hard through the media, advertising it's ease of use and lack of viruses, while touting the consumer-reassuring Pentium chip, Apple will only get stronger...

I am a bit dissapointed that the PowerBook G5 is all but dead, and I'm damn annoyed that no iBook or PowerBook announcements were made, meaning that I'll be back on here asking you guys once AGAIN to help me to decide when and what to buy, but I've gotta admit, I CAN'T WAIT for the price reductions as the G4/5 Mac's are discontinued... :D :D :D
 
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