When I woke up this morning I was in shock about this announcement, then I spent the day talking to people about it, and it's like Steve says in the Keynote the heart of the Mac is OS X, I love it if my next Mac has to have Intel inside so be it!
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Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]
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Kelmon said:
here's something that I think now haunts and hinders Apple.
The way products get introduced.
We get rumours (and they keep getting more accurate) but we get no roadmap. Intel have one, Apple doesn't. So, we now have a situation where a prospective buyer and/or developer has to guess what's coming and when.
SO - want a powerbook? buy one now and hope the next model isn't out in 2 months. Yes that applies to almost anything but not everything. Xbox? Good idea how long that will be current. Almost anything in this sector of business has _some_ roadmap. Maybe it's time for Steve to stop with his "and another thing" and share with us the actual road ahead - that way consumers get choice and a clear(ish) decision to make. Because me buying a dual 2ghz G5 PPC before a speedbump may be mildy upsetting and induce "I want" feelings rather than "I need" - but me buying a powerbook before the Intel comes out is an entirely different bag of chips IMO.
I'm not overly concerned about the switch to Intel, it seems to be a given considering the recent slow down of new releases especially amongst the Books.
I don't understand those people who say they won't be upgrading to a new Mac when it's time, but most likely will go out and buy a windows machine. I have spent a few thousand dollars on software for my newly purchased PowerBook, if I decided to go windows when it's time to upgrade that would mean I'd have to go out and buy all new software to match it. I'm not prepared to do that anytime soon.
My PowerBook will be good for several years to come and suits my needs just fine thanks. I know I certainly won't be upgrading simply because Intel is the new kid on the Apple block when my current PowerBook will be more than sufficient. I also know that I will certainly not be buying a first revision of a MacTel, I'd much prefer wait for the second or even third revision when all the bugs have pretty much been ironed out. This has nothing to do with falling behind with technology it's 3 simple, logical factors:-
1. Waiting out for a proven stable build
2. PPC will be usable for quite a few years to come
3. My bank balance
I don't understand those people who say they won't be upgrading to a new Mac when it's time, but most likely will go out and buy a windows machine. I have spent a few thousand dollars on software for my newly purchased PowerBook, if I decided to go windows when it's time to upgrade that would mean I'd have to go out and buy all new software to match it. I'm not prepared to do that anytime soon.
My PowerBook will be good for several years to come and suits my needs just fine thanks. I know I certainly won't be upgrading simply because Intel is the new kid on the Apple block when my current PowerBook will be more than sufficient. I also know that I will certainly not be buying a first revision of a MacTel, I'd much prefer wait for the second or even third revision when all the bugs have pretty much been ironed out. This has nothing to do with falling behind with technology it's 3 simple, logical factors:-
1. Waiting out for a proven stable build
2. PPC will be usable for quite a few years to come
3. My bank balance
This all just seems too wierd, but I don't think we will see P4 macs, they will use more next gen chips. I would love to see the Keynote but for some reason Safari crashes everytime I open the stream page. IE crashes when it opens as does Firefox and YM, I know its off topic but anyone know whats going on? If anyone has the address of the keynote that I can put into Quicktime to watch the strea that would be great if you could PM it to me.
Thanks
Thanks
The main problem with this switch as I see it: who is going to buy Macs with PPC, especially the pro line system for 3k?Bern said:
I believe that most people like myself will put everything on hold.
Mac sales will take a serious nosedive. (Note that 47% of Apples profit come/came from Computer sales.)
If your marketshare is 3% it is a tough gamble hoping that people still will be interested in buying a Mac one two years from now.
themadchemist said:
I think that if you look over some of the CPU articles over at Ars Technica, you might find that CISC and RISC architectures have been converging over the years. The main issue I see is Altivec, or in the case of Intel, the lack of it. Altivec is widely used in the OS, in performance apps (photoshop) and even iTunes (for burning). Most of Apple's performance claims were largely tied to Altivec implementations.
I don't think desktops are really an issue. It's laptops. Laptops are the big seller right now and will gradually replace desktops if the current trend continues. Jobs seems to indicate that Apple's laptops are literally frozen in their current state right now, and didn't indicate there was even a sliver of a chance of getting a G5 in one. If you design and build computers, thats one huge problem, and you have to solve it, one way or another and soon. It may be nice to have a processor agnostic OS to address a different desktop configuration, but Apple builds tightly integrated easy to use, easy to manage solutions, which a processor agnostic OS may not lend itself to very well.
When I try to watch it Quicktime crashes... I will try to watch it on a Intel/IE6 lateryogi477 said:
dongmin said:
Exactly - what needs to happen is Application A running on Apple Macintel spec Z alongside Application A running on (for eg) Alienware spec Z in a smoke off.
We have to see that a Powemac still runs given apps 'better' - even if they are Apple tests and all that entails re spin. ie the paradox ATM is having sold PowerPC so well how does Steve now sell the competitor he just spent years bad mouthing?
Just hope that Samsung spec Z/PPC doesn't smoke both ;-)
I think the 64bit is just overblown.. honestly how many people uses the full capability are not that many.. the rest of the story still hasn't been written yet.. we have only seen the "Transitional" phase.. how Apple/Intel going to move the 64bit is still TBD. In the end, WWDC is for software developers and I don't think it matter too much to us... as everything is abstracted.
End users will have to wait till SF I suppose.. or Paris.
End users will have to wait till SF I suppose.. or Paris.
jZilla said:
It would have been impossible for Apple to present a roadmap for apple the last couple of years...jZilla said:
Think about it, first they needed an OS that was CPU independent, which i think is GREAT (OSX)! Then they switch architecture.
If Steve would have anounced this a couple of years ago, he would have killed the mac completely!
yogi477 said:
Yeah I had the same problem. My solution? Played around with QTsettings.
FYI- under Streaming I set it to 384Kbps and disabled Instant-On, gave me the best resolution and size without getting choppy or crashing.
Although my Mac is old, a G4 400Mhz Sawtooth with stock eveerything ATI 16mb crappolla, so this my not have anything to do with your problems. In my case the Keynote would start playing, freeze after 20secs then quit, sometimes with sound, sometimes without. Oh and I'm on 2mb cable with Blueyonder so your streaming settings may vary depending upon the speed of yours. GL!
bring it on
I can't wait for the intel based Macs - think of all the new technology inside & design outside (bored of the G5 enclosure).
In the meantime I need to fill the gap, get a Mac Mini now or wait a bit for an update?
I can't wait for the intel based Macs - think of all the new technology inside & design outside (bored of the G5 enclosure).
In the meantime I need to fill the gap, get a Mac Mini now or wait a bit for an update?
The problem is not Intel has some exponetially better CPU.. the problem is IBM cannot deliver G5 on powerbook now. With laptop sales the major revenue generator.. as a company I think it is stupid for Apple to wait for a "oh it is coming" solution.
G5/Power architecture was never meant to be on a laptop... we now know why.
G5/Power architecture was never meant to be on a laptop... we now know why.
Black Badger said:
I think Apple have something called the Acceleration Framework which abstracts the programming away from being Altivec specific, so when run on Intel it uses the Pentium version of Altivec, I think it's called SSE or something?
I think incremental speed improvement will still be made (due to manufacturing refinement).. I think the announcement just meant dont' expect new ground breaking stuff to happen before the MacTel stuff comes out.. eg Powerbook G5, macmini G5 etc etc
alexeismertin said:
Also what could these new great PowerPC products be?
Also what could these new great PowerPC products be?
Also what could these new great PowerPC products be?
Godwin said:
Well I can see that the PowerBooks need a better processor, but a lot of people don't want/need a laptop, instead thay need fast, quiet, efficient workstations, I'm not sure that Intel can deliver any better than IBM did, but by effectively snubbing IBM, the Cell is not happening for Apple.
Godwin said:
From the ADC site:
"The Accelerate framework is an umbrella framework that wraps the existing vecLib and vImage frameworks."
and
"Use the Accelerate framework. The Accelerate framework, introduced in Mac OS X v10.3 and expanded in v10.4, is a set of high-performance vector-accelerated libraries. It provides a layer of abstraction that lets you access vector-based code without needing to use vector instructions yourself or to be concerned with the architecture of the target machine. The system automatically invokes the appropriate instruction set.
"
Go Intel Go!!
I can't hardly wait for my new Intel based laptop this time next year - my lease runs out on my current 17"PB then...
Laptop sales are outstripping desktop sales so I see this as a great move by Apple to get the performance we need. I've watch the Keynote and it would seem that Apple have sorted most of the details out - no doubt there will be problems but they are being aggressive in getting developers to start to create univeral binaries for their apps.
Maybe the price will come down too!!
I can't hardly wait for my new Intel based laptop this time next year - my lease runs out on my current 17"PB then...
Laptop sales are outstripping desktop sales so I see this as a great move by Apple to get the performance we need. I've watch the Keynote and it would seem that Apple have sorted most of the details out - no doubt there will be problems but they are being aggressive in getting developers to start to create univeral binaries for their apps.
Maybe the price will come down too!!
crap freakboy said:Yeah I had the same problem. My solution? Played around with QTsettings.
FYI- under Streaming I set it to 384Kbps and disabled Instant-On, gave me the best resolution and size without getting choppy or crashing.
Although my Mac is old, a G4 400Mhz Sawtooth with stock eveerything ATI 16mb crappolla, so this my not have anything to do with your problems. In my case the Keynote would start playing, freeze after 20secs then quit, sometimes with sound, sometimes without. Oh and I'm on 2mb cable with Blueyonder so your streaming settings may vary depending upon the speed of yours. GL!
I mean it just opens the page, gets so far then finds something it doesnt like and quits. Its not like th page even fully loads. Do you have the exact address so I can try it in Quicktime?
Of interest to 3D app users
Just had a look through the Universal Binary docs re:Rosetta and translation speed of certain PPC apps running on Intel
"Those that have a moderate amount of user interaction and some high computational needs or that use OpenGL are, in most cases, also quite compatible. Those that have intense computing needs arent compatible. This includes applications that need to repeatedly compute fast Fourier transforms (FFTs), that compute complex models for 3-D modelling, or compute ray tracing."
So until the likes of Lightwave, Maya & Cinema 4D are UB they will run like dogs (I'm guessing)
Just had a look through the Universal Binary docs re:Rosetta and translation speed of certain PPC apps running on Intel
"Those that have a moderate amount of user interaction and some high computational needs or that use OpenGL are, in most cases, also quite compatible. Those that have intense computing needs arent compatible. This includes applications that need to repeatedly compute fast Fourier transforms (FFTs), that compute complex models for 3-D modelling, or compute ray tracing."
So until the likes of Lightwave, Maya & Cinema 4D are UB they will run like dogs (I'm guessing)
ZLurker said:
fair point well made, I just think that NO roadmap and no warning isn't helping him.
Of course he wouldn't announce kit nowhere near signed, sealed and almost ready to be delivered - but yesterday's "we have some great PowerPC stuff still to come" alongside "the future isn't Power PC" (my paraphrasing) just sounded (IMO) mildly idiotic and massively contradictory.
In fact - he just did what you said he couldn't - give us an insight into what we will have in 2007 with no idea himself what it would be.
Was he announcing Intel have a chip he will use, or just that by 2007 his deal with IBM will be dead and he'll use whatever Intel has at the time? (IYSWIM).
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