Macintosh Moving to Intel Processors [Updated]

[Devie]

Guys please be frank with me, how long will my just oredered iMac last? I am really worried right now but just dont have the time to go through 70 pages of this.
It has been 2 years of saving for this! I expect it to be able to run the latest OS in like three years...

 

[osustudent]

Guys please be frank with me, how long will my just oredered iMac last? I am really worried right now but just dont have the time to go through 70 pages of this.
It has been 2 years of saving for this! I expect it to be able to run the latest OS in like three years...

If history is any indication, you'll be able to ...

 

[Devie]

If history is any indication, you'll be able to ...

can you please give me a brief example of what happened from the move from 68000 (I think it was) to PPC? Is this much the same thing??

 

[osustudent]

can you please give me a brief example of what happened from the move from 68000 (I think it was) to PPC? Is this much the same thing??

I'm not sure about that change. The one thing I can tell you is that Tiger is compatiable with any Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G3, G4 or G5 processor. When's the last time you've heard about a G3?

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I don't have to try, everyone already is. And its statements like "Renders all our hardware currently void" that I have a problem with. You have a right to be annoyed, I have a right to annoy you

We both have a right to be annoyed... However, you do NOT have the right to be rude. As I said before, at least try to behave respectful.
You act like you have all the answers. The truth is you are just as lost as the rest of us. We are in a guessing game right now. It only strikes back at yourself when you claim you know it all.
So one more time... please try to act civil.
You risk getting banned if you keep on trying to piss people off.

 

[Stella]

Guys please be frank with me, how long will my just oredered iMac last? I am really worried right now but just dont have the time to go through 70 pages of this.
It has been 2 years of saving for this! I expect it to be able to run the latest OS in like three years...

Think about it:

1 years time: PPC macs will still being sold and introduced during the 12 months period
: Intel introduced

2 years time: Still more PPC machines than Intel
3 years time: Intel based machines rapidly catching up, if not at 50%.

You have nothing to worry about. At least, if not more than 3 years.

As long as there are plenty of PPC based machines, software will be supported.

There are a lot of misinformed people on these forums who, strangely, seem to think their PPC machine is obsolete today or at most, 12 months time ( when Intel based Macs will have just been released).

PPC will be supported for years yet - probably for the life time of your new iMac, if not more.

Don't worry, enjoy your iMacs, its a great machine with lots of life.

 

[blitzkrieg79]

If market dominance had anything to do with quality, then no Mac fanatic would be stomping on Microsoft, now would they?

market dominance is one thing, putting up crap products is another, the reality is that Intel and AMD make chips of about same speed, people get all souped up when they see Athlon64 beat a P4 on a Quake3 benchmark by 5 frames and say how it stomps it when in the real world performance that advantage is basically equal to none...
Yesterday I read a report that in in the last year the sales of notebooks surpassed the sales of desktops for the first time in history and tell me who has the best mobile chip right now? Desktops were never a problem for Apple, laptops definately are...

 

[cmvsm]

I just think that running on a different chip makes a huge difference.. at least, to me.. philosophically. Maybe it's just me, but now I feel like I'm walking in Microsoft's shadow... It makes me feel like I'm using cheap, shoddy equipment.

Uh...correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Intel the largest and technologically advanced chip manufacturer on the planet? I'm not sure how their name translates into anything "shoddy". I guess you'd feel more secure for the future of Apple sticking with IBM who cannot keep even up with their current promises of a 3Ghz G5 or a G5 laptop for that matter? Keeping up with demand has also been a big problem with them. Let's see...your supplier cannot keep up with the competition, nor can it keep up with current demand...I say we KEEP EM...yeah right...GET EM OUT OF HERE!!!

I've built many PC's in the past using AMD, Intel, Cyrix, etc. As long as you are comparing Apples to Apples (no pun intended ), you cannot tell the difference no matter how "attached" you are to the machine. Other 3rd party hardware products such as video cards, RAM, etc., is where you see a huge difference depending on who and what you are using.

And again, I'm not sure why Microsoft continues to get dragged into this conversation. They are software, Intel is hardware. Intel is simply getting another customer in which they will supply a unique chip in order to satisfy the need and most importantly, the demand.

Apple just secured their future in the marketplace. If you are to be unhappy, be unhappy about the fact that it didn't happen earlier than it did. IBM is a deadend and they were taking Apple with them.

Way to "see the light" Apple.

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

I am being civil. I have a much broader vocabulary for when I chose not to be. However, if I can be expected to be "civil", one would expect everyone to be "sensible" as well.

And not many people are being sensible about this change.

If that is acting civil, I dont want you around when you behave otherwise. I am sure you know a lot of four letter words, but please spare us.
Just as in the normal society, you have a right to be treated with respect. Have it striked you that what you regards as sensible, might differ from what other people think?
...and yet we bear with you, and treat you with respect.
a win win situation, don't you think?

 

[enginerd]

Here's what Intel is working on with their Pentium-M successor. If the intel powerbooks and ibooks come out next year, this is what will probably be in them.

http://theinquirer.net/?article=23774

 

[osustudent]

We both have a right to be annoyed... However, you do NOT have the right to be rude. As I said before, at least try to behave respectful.
You act like you have all the answers. The truth is you are just as lost as the rest of us. We are in a guessing game right now. It only strikes back at yourself when you claim you know it all.
So one more time... please try to act civil.
You risk getting banned if you keep on trying to piss people off.

You are right - none of us know anything for sure. Yet, it is extremely likely that the PPC will be supported for years to come. So, from my view, it is slightly funny to hear people talk about the doom of yesterday.

Like I've said before: I'm still going to buy a new PB this summer. It is still a great machine, with the best OS.

Also, unless you can personally ban people, knock it off.

 

[Devie]

Think about it:

1 years time: PPC macs will still being sold and introduced during the 12 months period
: Intel introduced

2 years time: Still more PPC machines than Intel
3 years time: Intel based machines rapidly catching up, if not at 50%.

You have nothing to worry about. At least, if not more than 3 years.

As long as there are plenty of PPC based machines, software will be supported.

There are a lot of misinformed people on these forums who, strangely, seem to think their PPC machine is obsolete today or at most, 12 months time ( when Intel based Macs will have just been released).

PPC will be supported for years yet - probably for the life time of your new iMac, if not more.

Don't worry, enjoy your iMacs, its a great machine with lots of life.

Thanks for the reasurance. I'm trying to think of it as differently as I possibly can, though I do not care about the hardware itself as I know that is always to be updated. I was/am just scared about the software, the most important part of a computer...
Ahwell, by ten days, my iMac should be here (according to the status page). By then I hope I apple have released more information regarding the life of the current Mac line (which I'm sure will last long...) and that I will fully enjoy my machine.

I guess another way to look at it as this. Nintendo released the DS, everyone thought it to be the new Gameboy and the SP will be dead, well software is still being made for the GBA along with the DS... its pretty much the same thing...

 

[osustudent]

Think about it:

1 years time: PPC macs will still being sold and introduced during the 12 months period
: Intel introduced

2 years time: Still more PPC machines than Intel
3 years time: Intel based machines rapidly catching up, if not at 50%.

You have nothing to worry about. At least, if not more than 3 years.

As long as there are plenty of PPC based machines, software will be supported.

There are a lot of misinformed people on these forums who, strangely, seem to think their PPC machine is obsolete today or at most, 12 months time ( when Intel based Macs will have just been released).

PPC will be supported for years yet - probably for the life time of your new iMac, if not more.

Don't worry, enjoy your iMacs, its a great machine with lots of life.

PERFECT! This is the most sensible thing on here today.

 

[alexeismertin]

DRM again

OSX wont run on generic x86 boxes... OSX wont run on a generic PPC box either. The box needs the Apple ROM to run OSX.
I don't think Apple will allow clones (they have tried it before with disasterous results) especially since 47% of the profit comes/came from Mac sales.

I was referring to on-chip DRM as piracy prevention by Apple of OSX in addition to generic windows boxes running OSX (which conversely wouldn't allow 'off the shelf' intel chip upgrades to Macs - the idea that you buy a Mac once then upgrade the CPU every 9-12 months)

 

[enginerd]

Here's what Intel is working on with their Pentium-M successor. If the intel powerbooks and ibooks come out next year, this is what will probably be in them.

http://theinquirer.net/?article=23774

BTW, here's a description of the Vanderpool tech mentioned in that article.
http://www.intel.com/technology/computing/vptech/

Google will turn up plenty of other pages.

 

[jZilla]

Yesterday I read a report that in in the last year the sales of notebooks surpassed the sales of desktops for the first time in history and tell me who has the best mobile chip right now? Desktops were never a problem for Apple, laptops definately are...

IN ONE.

That's it.

No powerbook G5 is THE key. I bet that the first Macintel is a Powerbook.

Then close behind (and possibly just before) the Mini.

Powermac will be last IMO and then we may see dual processor/64 bit.

Jobs himself mentioned heat being an issue. I think that's why he has jumped in bed. I think ditching PowerPC is something he doesn't want to do but feels he has to in order to not have cross-chip platforms in the range.

 

[Laurent]

IN ONE.

No. I love Apple, but their laptop screen on their first PowerBook Titanium are a mess after 2 years of daily use (for both computers at work). We had problems with power plug/cords on our iBook (G3 14" models) and my built-in Airport never worked on my PowerBook 17" (the card is undetected)...

 

[Stella]

Its the hardware bit you should be concerned about. My overall point was, as long as there is a high percentage of PPC based Macs out there, software will be supported.

When PPC user based falls below say, 40%, you'll probably see less software, but that won't happen for at least 3.5 years, I think.

Mac owners are not going to rush out and buy Intel based machines upon their introduction. People will wait until they need to buy another machine.

That Nintendo example you give, is good.

Thanks for the reasurance. I'm trying to think of it as differently as I possibly can, though I do not care about the hardware itself as I know that is always to be updated. I was/am just scared about the software, the most important part of a computer...
Ahwell, by ten days, my iMac should be here (according to the status page). By then I hope I apple have released more information regarding the life of the current Mac line (which I'm sure will last long...) and that I will fully enjoy my machine.

I guess another way to look at it as this. Nintendo released the DS, everyone thought it to be the new Gameboy and the SP will be dead, well software is still being made for the GBA along with the DS... its pretty much the same thing...

 

[Maxiseller]

I don't have to try, everyone already is. And its statements like "Renders all our hardware currently void" that I have a problem with. You have a right to be annoyed, I have a right to annoy you

Well, while you seem to be hell bent of proving many people wrong on this forum, you have to understand that everybody's situation is different.

Take mine : I run Logic, and some expensive virtual instrument plug ins as I am studing music composition. Now, all my software is currently cross compatible with Windows and Mac. In two years, it won't be. The software group isn't going to re-compile existing programs and hand them out for free! It may in future BIG updates where you have to pay anyway, but the essence of building a virtual instrument library is just that: Building. Changing a chip, for me, voids that library. Ergo, I have a choice - go to windows and use ALL my current library, or stay on Mac and face the fact that I will probably have to re-buy the more system demanding instruments. It was the same with the switch to OS9 to OSX ; I had to rebuy the little that I actually owned at that time. Now, Im facing a lot bigger challenge.

I love Macs, don't get me wrong. I even agree with the reasoning behind the switch, but for me, from a business and financial standpoint, it knackers me.

 

[anynigma]

Rosseta

I think everyone here is forgetting about rosseta (sp). It will allow dynamic translation of most programs in both directions. This should allow current mac apps to run on the AI (Apple Intel) macs and new AI apps to run on current PPC's Apple will almost definitely support the PPC in its next few operating systems and what is really the best thing about this transition in my opinion is XCode.

If apple is asking developers to use XCode, creating the same app for multiple processors becomes a snap. As I understand it, compiling an app with Xcode for windows and the mac is as easy as clicking a few buttons. I could be underestimating the simplicity, and I would appreciate any extra knowledge someone could share with me, but even so, It is far simpler than porting used to be. If it is this simple, Installer programs on a CD or DVD may come to essentially be compilers, and when you run them it detects your os, and then proceeds to compile and install the program for your OS. This could become a software revolution.

Lastly, for those of us who believe the PPC has the potential to be better than Intel processors, we can sit back and watch as IBM and Freescale work on videogame chips. Hopefully, there will be a derivative of a power6 chip (rumored to run a 6GHZ in 2007) that can make it into a future mac.

Whatever happens, I will buy my g4 powerbook at the end of this week, and it will run word and a bunch of great programs until I need a new machine. And if I decide that the AI world doesn't suit my taste, I can always go to Newegg and build myself an Athlon 64 box. Apple may be saying no OSX on any wintel machine, but I don't think they can hold on for ever.

 

[Devie]

Its the hardware bit you should be concerned about. My overall point was, as long as there is a high percentage of PPC based Macs out there, software will be supported.

When PPC user based falls below say, 40%, you'll probably see less software, but that won't happen for at least 3.5 years, I think.

Mac owners are not going to rush out and buy Intel based machines upon their introduction. People will wait until they need to buy another machine.

That Nintendo example you give, is good.

I do not beleive the hardware is an issue to me. Ofcourse the actual factual problem that will be happening is because of the hardware, its just that I want new software to still be available to it when its ditzy and slow (ie time to get a new one).

 

[Panu]

Guys please be frank with me, how long will my just oredered iMac last? I am really worried right now but just dont have the time to go through 70 pages of this.
It has been 2 years of saving for this! I expect it to be able to run the latest OS in like three years...

If you paid close attention to the announcement, they said it is possible to compile universal binaries; that is, software that will run on either PowerPC or Intel, and Microsoft is going to do just that with Office. It is going to take Apple two years to switch completely to Intel, during which period all software has to run on both platforms. Most commercial applications will be like that, because it gives them a larger potential customer base with less work, less packaging, less inventory, less distribution, and--more importantly--more profit.

Jobs also announced that Apple is still going to put out new PPC-based products during the transition.

Support for PPC machines isn't going to end abruptly. OS 9 has been dead for half a decade and Apple still ships it with every copy of OS X.

It is possible right now to run Linux software on Macs if you use Fink. Switching to Intel will make it easier for Linux programmers to write software for the Mac, because the kernel will have been compiled in the same instruction set as all the distros of Linux. Software vendors that don't have Mac versions of their products will have more motivation to put them out.

So get ready for a greater variety of software for the Mac.

The main effect of the switch to Intel is psychological. It won't have any other effect on you. The next time you purchase a Macintosh, it won't be because the software changed, it will be because the new models are seductive and you want a slicker Mac. And when you decide to buy a new Mac, they will be faster, cheaper, better, and lovelier, because the cooler-running Intel chips will remove some design constraints that Apple is currently under.

Jobs wouldn't have done this if it weren't necessary. If Apple had not made this switch, Macintoshes would be forced off the market by high prices and low performance.

Let me say it again. The main effect of the switch to Intel is psychological. Your hardware will get obsolete long before the software does. Time to put down the chocolates, turn off the soap opera, get off the sofa and use your Mac. It's a fine machine and it will live out its normal useful life.

And by the way, I just bought an iMac a couple of months ago. It was my first Apple since 1980. So I am in pretty much the same situation as you.

I'm very happy about the change. It makes me feel that Apple has a bright future. You Mac fanatics can abandon ship, it won't matter. This will make Macintoshes cheap enough, beginning in 2006, that businesses and government agencies will be able to purchase them. Apple will be able to compete on price as well as design.

Apple has a bright future because of this change.

This is only good news.

 

[Digital7]

New Mac inside

I'm very curious that what is the difference between the Intel Mac's and other normal PC's ? New Intel Mac's are available for selected developer's. Is here anyone who know's such developer ? He can show us a detail's and maybe photo's about the mainboard and BIOS.
Sorry for my wrong english.

 

[Devie]

If you paid close attention to the announcement, they said it is possible to compile universal binaries; that is, software that will run on either PowerPC or Intel, and Microsoft is going to do just that with Office. It is going to take Apple two years to switch completely to Intel, during which period all software has to run on both platforms. Most commercial applications will be like that, because it gives them a larger potential customer base with less work, less packaging, less inventory, less distribution, and--more importantly--more profit.

Jobs also announced that Apple is still going to put out new PPC-based products during the transition.

Support for PPC machines isn't going to end abruptly. OS 9 has been dead for half a decade and Apple still ships it with every copy of OS X.

It is possible right now to run Linux software on Macs if you use Fink. Switching to Intel will make it easier for Linux programmers to write software for the Mac, because the kernel will have been compiled in the same instruction set as all the distros of Linux. Software vendors that don't have Mac versions of their products will have more motivation to put them out.

So get ready for a greater variety of software for the Mac.

The main effect of the switch to Intel is psychological. It won't have any other effect on you. The next time you purchase a Macintosh, it won't be because the software changed, it will be because the new models are seductive and you want a slicker Mac. And when you decide to buy a new Mac, they will be faster, cheaper, better, and lovelier, because the cooler-running Intel chips will remove some design constraints that Apple is currently under.

Jobs wouldn't have done this if it weren't necessary. If Apple had not made this switch, Macintoshes would be forced off the market by high prices and low performance.

Let me say it again. The main effect of the switch to Intel is psychological. Your hardware will get obsolete long before the software does. Time to put down the chocolates, turn off the soap opera, get off the sofa and use your Mac. It's a fine machine and it will live out its normal useful life.

And by the way, I just bought an iMac a couple of months ago. It was my first Apple since 1980. So I am in pretty much the same situation as you.

I'm very happy about the change. It makes me feel that Apple has a bright future. You Mac fanatics can abandon ship, it won't matter. This will make Macintoshes cheap enough, beginning in 2006, that businesses and government agencies will be able to purchase them. Apple will be able to compete on price as well as design.

Apple has a bright future because of this change.

This is only good news.

Wow, I wasnt expecting such a thought-out reply as that, thankyou so much! This has pretty much got my mind out of the gutter and I'm being ever so excited about getting my iMac once again.
I realise it is a very good thing for apple. Though, now because of what you said, I beleive I am one of the lucky ones. My mac will still last plenty long, and by the time I have to upgrade, all the new Mactel's will be out and ready for my purchase.

 

[fbrown]

I'm Wondering the Same...

Guys please be frank with me, how long will my just oredered iMac last? I am really worried right now but just dont have the time to go through 70 pages of this.
It has been 2 years of saving for this! I expect it to be able to run the latest OS in like three years...

Devie,

I know exactly how you feel. I just bought an iMac too and I'm wondering the same thing...will my new iMac be obsolete in a year's time? The answer is no.

I'm no computer geek and I am also frustrated sifting through this thread for an answer.

I watched Steve Job's keynote speech at the WWDC. Future releases of OSX will be made for both PowerPC (the G5 chip in our iMacs) and Intel machines. Future apps like Adobe Photoshop will also be written for both chips as well. Developers like Adobe will now write apps in something called "universal binary" which will allow them to create apps for both chips.

If we decide to buy the next release of OSX, it will work on our machines. Our apps--apps written for PowerPCs--should still work fine and we should not notice a difference. If you decide to buy a new Mac with an Intel chip and use your old apps, those apps should still work.

The only thing I don't know the anwer to is will classic apps work with the next release of OSX.

Hopefully Apple will truly be able to make a smooth transition and they aren't painting too rosey a picture. I'm not worried about the switch to Intel--it will be nothing like the transition from OS9 to OSX.

-FBrown